Pixel ratio might be 640x480 but it's HIGHLY compressed video, meaning it's NO WHERE NEAR DVD quality. Pixel ratio alone does NOT = high picture quality.
It's not THAT compressed. H.264 is very efficient when compared to the MPEG-2 used in DVD's. And yes, DVD's use compression.
I'd only be interested if there is an option to download an HD version that makes the AppleTV experience worthwhile. Renting a low-res iPod compatible version and playing it on an HDTV is incredibly stupid. I already have access to low-res video thanks to YouTube. Why would I want to pay for it?
Personally, I think any kind of timed exploding file is a bad idea. And it would necessitate making the iPod and Apple TV DRM scheme more complicated, etc.
I really, really hope all these reports are wrong, and that the rentals are subscription-based, like Netflix. Otherwise, I'll be largely uninterested. At the very least, I'll be keeping my Netflix account for most of my rental needs.
24 hours? Are kidding me? for crappy looking highly compressed content? I can rent dvd's 2 blocks from my house for $2 and keep it for 2-7 days AND the quality will be great. They should allow unlimited watching in a 7 day period, minimum.
And you can rip the DVD too- right? Using Handbrake of course.
iTunes will only rip music but not videos- what's up with that?
I'm sure that Apple has studied up on all of the usual suspects in the movie rental market - everything from the 99¢ movie I can rent from a Red Box machine at the Albertson's up the street to Post Office-delivered Netflix to drive-your-car-to-Blockbuster to the local mom-and-pop video rental store to a PPV movie from Dish Networks. Bottom line: I'm guessing that Apple is betting that next-to-instant-gratification is worth a premium, and that most people will most likely watch an internet-delivered rental movie IMMEDIATELY upon paying for it.
This is just me, but we have a 1-year old 67" Mitsubishi rear-projection TV that, when coupled with HD content over our Dish Networks satellite service, it just stunningly real. I'm not much of a movie buyer (we own a few movies, but realized that we seldom watch an owned movie more than once or at most twice), but we like to rent a movie from time to time, and if we could rent a movie with at least DVD quality (and optionally HD quality), start watching it relatively soon after we rented it online (in other words, watch it as it was downloading), didn't have to sit through a bunch of previews (some DVDs won't let you go straight to the main menu without first watching the previews), and didn't have to pay a huge premium over other movie rental models, we would be a customer, no question about it.
I think he's implying that iTune videos/movies look like crap on an HD TV, which they do in their present format.
iTS purchased video look as a good as DVD on my 37" LG HD LCD TV (that is a lot of initialisms). Perhaps my Sony DVD player is crap or the AppleTV is up-converting content, but it is indistinguishable from my couch which is 10' away. The former is connected via Component, the latter is via HDMI.
I would like to see 720p quality but this rampant torch and pitchfork party against iTS video is unfounded from my point of view. Wouldn't using 720x480 resolution tax the CPu and therefore reduce the battery of your iDevice since it would have to work harder to alter the unbalanced resolution to fit the display?
I sure hope the timer starts when I first play the file, not when it's first downloaded.
If that's the case, I'll stick with Unbox on my TiVo.
CUE: Apple TV slowly fading into the distance...
I can't imagine that the timer starts when the download completes. It would have to be when you start playing it, just like TiVo/Unbox rentals.
And if by some bizarre chance it was when the download completed, that would just make it a game of Russian roulette considering you have no control when your movie would finish downloading.
I guess if the movie was being streamed, but that would really limit the number of people who could use it. Either it would have to buffer enough to guarantee no interruptions (which for some connections could be nearly the whole movie), or just deny people the ability to download if their connection speed wasn't fast enough.
I prefer to buy my movies from iTunes because if I want to watch it more than once I could have bought it assuming these prices are right. In addition, I tend to spread out my viewings over several days. 30-40 minutes is about the maximum amount of time I can spend in a passive activity.
Now TV shows, that's another story. I usually only watch an entire series once. Being able to rent episodes for 25-50 cents each would be ideal and I would probably take more chances with shows. $1.99 per episode is bordering on obscene, especially shows that are 11 minutes. I even saw a two minute "episode" as part of a series for $1.99. Who is going to buy that?
I do wonder if there is a digital signature for each video on each DVD that will require each of these videos to be tied to an iTunes account. This would meant that the supplementary DVD video can only be tied to one iTunes account. This seems like to much effort and overhead, but I figure Apple has been desperate to get more studios online, therefore may have jmped through a few hoops.... but I doubt it.
The dvd's don't have to be different, it will just be a file that needs to be authorized by the iTunes server (with a serial number) before it can be used, and the file will be written with that user-specific information. That's pretty much how iTunes sales work already.
Rental DVDs could contain the same files, they just wouldn't work because there would be no serial number provided to unlock the file.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjoec123
Personally, I think any kind of timed exploding file is a bad idea. And it would necessitate making the iPod and Apple TV DRM scheme more complicated, etc.
I really, really hope all these reports are wrong, and that the rentals are subscription-based, like Netflix. Otherwise, I'll be largely uninterested. At the very least, I'll be keeping my Netflix account for most of my rental needs.
Subscription based would be cool, but it's hard to imagine them not offering the option to just rent one movie. I don't see how that would be possible without the file expiring after some number of views or length of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmedia1
Pixel ratio might be 640x480 but it's HIGHLY compressed video, meaning it's NO WHERE NEAR DVD quality. Pixel ratio alone does NOT = high picture quality.
And you think DVDs aren't highly compressed? Really?
Aside from 640 versus 720, the biggest difference in iTunes store picture quality is that it doesn't use anamorphic, so it doesn't use the full 480 lines of resolution like DVD does.
The dvd's don't have to be different, it will just be a file that needs to be authorized by the iTunes server (with a serial number) before it can be used, and the file will be written with that user-specific information. That's pretty much how iTunes sales work already.
Rental DVDs could contain the same files, they just wouldn't work because there would be no serial number provided to unlock the file.
I don't understand how the DVDs can be the same but have different serial numbers. Are you saying that your DVD would come with a print serial number that when added to your iTunes account forever allows you to use any DVD containing that same movie with your authorized account?
It depends on what you mean by low rez. Right now, video on iTunes is 640 x 480 for 4:3, and 640 by whatever, depending on the aspect.
That's not quite DVD.
Hopefully, we will see, at least, 720 x 480.
I'd like to see 720P HD resolution, the stuff AppleTV supports. Not quite DVD resolution doesn't cut it especially when we lose all the bonus features DVDs carry when we buy or rent them.
When we give up so much for "convenience" sake w should at least get a better picture.
24 hours - is it a case of Apple throwing out the rumor to test the water? or throwing it out to PROVE to the studios that 24 Hrs isnt gonna fly to well on the blogsphere?
24 hours - is it Apple throwing it out there, so the hype gets going, negative though it is, and then Steve spake unto them and sayth "42" haha .. ok 48 or 72 or a week, and the crowd, well.. the crowd goes nuts -BOOM.
--
how WOULD 24 hrs work?
Timed is out - exploding media is out ain't gonna work, and if thats what it is then I'll gladly eat my hat, in the AWE that Steve must have lost his ability to strike a deal with the studios.
but hey ho, I'll bite, how does it work?
On a computer.
24 hours begins AFTER download, from you first hit PLAY on the mac/pc running iTunes 3,2,1 GO!
On an iPod.
24 Hrs begins once you sync. it. once synced you STILL have 24 Hrs to play it on the computer. but as long as you don't sync. the iPod AFTER that 24 hours it remains playable on the iPod, SIMPLE. The media you have rented does NOT explode INSIDE the iPod, you can go away for the week for business or pleasure and watch the movie whenever you want.
But, once you sync back to that computer/iTunes you get a warning saying your time was up a week ago so iTunes will remove the file/movie for you, also "don't worry, no late fee"*
ATV is somewhat the same, your 24 hrs starts once the sync. is COMPLETE. after that it gets slightly tricky, but only slightly, as the ATV can be synced wirelessly, IF you have the computer/iTunes running, and the 24 hrs elapses a warning will pop up letting you know the time has expired, in this case it may well be that the media can indeed seem to explode from the ATV because iTunes will sync wirelessly and remove the file.
BUT, if you switch the computer/iTunes OFF or move the ATV out of wireless sync range (take it to the friends/beach house) then it will keep playing the movie until it gets re-synced, JUST like the iPod - again, SIMPLE.
--
One thing no-one seems to have mentioned so far is, "What happens if my 24 Hrs finishes part way through the movie?"
Well I guess thats only really relevant on the wirelessly synced ATV.
You get to keep playing the movie and don't get a warning until you press pause. that would seem fair-ish.
But thats IF its 24 Hrs, and IMO thats a BIG "IF"
Most people seem ok with it being 48 though. and I reckon thats the shortest time you will see.
Anyway, those are my thoughts.
*Gonna play Macworld bingo, on Steve using that phrase, or it popping on screen.
iTS purchased video look as a good as DVD on my 37" LG HD LCD TV (that is a lot of initialisms). Perhaps my Sony DVD player is crap or the AppleTV is up-converting content, but it is indistinguishable from my couch which is 10' away. The former is connected via Component, the latter is via HDMI.
I would like to see 720p quality but this rampant torch and pitchfork party against iTS video is unfounded from my point of view. Wouldn't using 720x480 resolution tax the CPu and therefore reduce the battery of your iDevice since it would have to work harder to alter the unbalanced resolution to fit the display?
OK- No matter how you find the video quality comparison there is no way you can possibly think that the audio on an iTunes movie is anyway near that of a DVD- no way.
I don't understand how the DVDs can be the same but have different serial numbers. Are you saying that your DVD would come with a print serial number that when added to your iTunes account forever allows you to use any DVD containing that same movie with your authorized account?
They have been doing it for years with challenge/response. Or even with regular serial numbers - if you buy Final Cut, they include a serial number to make the app run. You don't think those dvd's are all different, do you?
The dvd has a file that won't run until it's authorized. You type in a serial number that comes on a piece of paper with the dvd. iTunes contacts the iTunes server and copies the video file to your hard drive and flags it as authorized and tied to your machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by success
It doesn't matter because there will be a hack to bypass the 24 hour limit anyway. You will also be able to burn it to DVD.
Every DVD encryption method has been hacked. You think some client side/server side iTunes software or special file format is any different?
There are guys hoping for new encryption methods just so they break them within 24 hours.
Do they have those hacks for the iTunes videos already for sale? Including burning to dvd? It doesn't really matter if they get hacked, the studios are usually happy just to get drm at all since the average person won't take the trouble of hacking the drm.
People are downloading music videos left right and center without iTunes so there has never been a need for an iTunes video hack. Same thing with movies. If the market demands that videos not be restricted to 24 hr viewing people will hack it. If the consumers don't care business/downloading goes on like it already is. I don't know one person who uses iTunes for music or videos. Everyone just hops on over to countless torrent sites. But that was when iTunes music was restricted to a very limited catalog. Everything is changing now and maybe eventually you will be able to find ANY song on iTunes as well as any movie. Hopefully that does happen. I personally have no problem paying $0.99 cents for a song. I don't have a problem with a $3.99 movie either provided I can burn it to SD/BR. If not I'll be continuing my 720p HD downloads on countless 720p and 1080p HD torrents sites. There are hundreds out there.
Comments
Pixel ratio might be 640x480 but it's HIGHLY compressed video, meaning it's NO WHERE NEAR DVD quality. Pixel ratio alone does NOT = high picture quality.
It's not THAT compressed. H.264 is very efficient when compared to the MPEG-2 used in DVD's. And yes, DVD's use compression.
It's not THAT compressed. H.264 is very efficient when compared to the MPEG-2 used in DVD's. And yes, DVD's use compression.
DVD's use mpg4
I'd only be interested if there is an option to download an HD version that makes the AppleTV experience worthwhile. Renting a low-res iPod compatible version and playing it on an HDTV is incredibly stupid. I already have access to low-res video thanks to YouTube. Why would I want to pay for it?
Stan
www.pollywogtheater.com
Exactly- and it should download directly to the AppleTV not some other location.
Personally, I think any kind of timed exploding file is a bad idea. And it would necessitate making the iPod and Apple TV DRM scheme more complicated, etc.
I really, really hope all these reports are wrong, and that the rentals are subscription-based, like Netflix. Otherwise, I'll be largely uninterested. At the very least, I'll be keeping my Netflix account for most of my rental needs.
I agree- as stated for 24 hours- what a ripoff!
24 hours? Are kidding me? for crappy looking highly compressed content? I can rent dvd's 2 blocks from my house for $2 and keep it for 2-7 days AND the quality will be great. They should allow unlimited watching in a 7 day period, minimum.
And you can rip the DVD too- right? Using Handbrake of course.
iTunes will only rip music but not videos- what's up with that?
BRILLIANT
Bring it on baby. Finally AppleTV will be more then what is now - my digital hub
It needs a hell of a lot more than that.
It needs a blu- ray drive and recordability like a Tivo and Websurfing like an iTouch.
DVD's use mpg4
DVDs use MPEG-2. MPEG-4 did not even exist when DVDs came out.
Are you implying that video purchased on iTS is comparable to YouTube video?I recall reading that YouTube is ~360kbps and iTS video is ~1.5Mbps. That is huge difference between the two.
I think he's implying that iTune videos/movies look like crap on an HD TV, which they do in their present format.
I would rather buy a DVD for $9.99, rip it, and throw it out rather then buy the downloadable VHS -quality version currently on iTunes.
This is just me, but we have a 1-year old 67" Mitsubishi rear-projection TV that, when coupled with HD content over our Dish Networks satellite service, it just stunningly real. I'm not much of a movie buyer (we own a few movies, but realized that we seldom watch an owned movie more than once or at most twice), but we like to rent a movie from time to time, and if we could rent a movie with at least DVD quality (and optionally HD quality), start watching it relatively soon after we rented it online (in other words, watch it as it was downloading), didn't have to sit through a bunch of previews (some DVDs won't let you go straight to the main menu without first watching the previews), and didn't have to pay a huge premium over other movie rental models, we would be a customer, no question about it.
DVD's use mpg4
? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video
I think he's implying that iTune videos/movies look like crap on an HD TV, which they do in their present format.
iTS purchased video look as a good as DVD on my 37" LG HD LCD TV (that is a lot of initialisms). Perhaps my Sony DVD player is crap or the AppleTV is up-converting content, but it is indistinguishable from my couch which is 10' away. The former is connected via Component, the latter is via HDMI.
I would like to see 720p quality but this rampant torch and pitchfork party against iTS video is unfounded from my point of view. Wouldn't using 720x480 resolution tax the CPu and therefore reduce the battery of your iDevice since it would have to work harder to alter the unbalanced resolution to fit the display?
I sure hope the timer starts when I first play the file, not when it's first downloaded.
If that's the case, I'll stick with Unbox on my TiVo.
CUE: Apple TV slowly fading into the distance...
I can't imagine that the timer starts when the download completes. It would have to be when you start playing it, just like TiVo/Unbox rentals.
And if by some bizarre chance it was when the download completed, that would just make it a game of Russian roulette considering you have no control when your movie would finish downloading.
I guess if the movie was being streamed, but that would really limit the number of people who could use it. Either it would have to buffer enough to guarantee no interruptions (which for some connections could be nearly the whole movie), or just deny people the ability to download if their connection speed wasn't fast enough.
Now TV shows, that's another story. I usually only watch an entire series once. Being able to rent episodes for 25-50 cents each would be ideal and I would probably take more chances with shows. $1.99 per episode is bordering on obscene, especially shows that are 11 minutes. I even saw a two minute "episode" as part of a series for $1.99. Who is going to buy that?
I do wonder if there is a digital signature for each video on each DVD that will require each of these videos to be tied to an iTunes account. This would meant that the supplementary DVD video can only be tied to one iTunes account. This seems like to much effort and overhead, but I figure Apple has been desperate to get more studios online, therefore may have jmped through a few hoops.... but I doubt it.
The dvd's don't have to be different, it will just be a file that needs to be authorized by the iTunes server (with a serial number) before it can be used, and the file will be written with that user-specific information. That's pretty much how iTunes sales work already.
Rental DVDs could contain the same files, they just wouldn't work because there would be no serial number provided to unlock the file.
Personally, I think any kind of timed exploding file is a bad idea. And it would necessitate making the iPod and Apple TV DRM scheme more complicated, etc.
I really, really hope all these reports are wrong, and that the rentals are subscription-based, like Netflix. Otherwise, I'll be largely uninterested. At the very least, I'll be keeping my Netflix account for most of my rental needs.
Subscription based would be cool, but it's hard to imagine them not offering the option to just rent one movie. I don't see how that would be possible without the file expiring after some number of views or length of time.
Pixel ratio might be 640x480 but it's HIGHLY compressed video, meaning it's NO WHERE NEAR DVD quality. Pixel ratio alone does NOT = high picture quality.
And you think DVDs aren't highly compressed? Really?
Aside from 640 versus 720, the biggest difference in iTunes store picture quality is that it doesn't use anamorphic, so it doesn't use the full 480 lines of resolution like DVD does.
The dvd's don't have to be different, it will just be a file that needs to be authorized by the iTunes server (with a serial number) before it can be used, and the file will be written with that user-specific information. That's pretty much how iTunes sales work already.
Rental DVDs could contain the same files, they just wouldn't work because there would be no serial number provided to unlock the file.
I don't understand how the DVDs can be the same but have different serial numbers. Are you saying that your DVD would come with a print serial number that when added to your iTunes account forever allows you to use any DVD containing that same movie with your authorized account?
It depends on what you mean by low rez. Right now, video on iTunes is 640 x 480 for 4:3, and 640 by whatever, depending on the aspect.
That's not quite DVD.
Hopefully, we will see, at least, 720 x 480.
I'd like to see 720P HD resolution, the stuff AppleTV supports. Not quite DVD resolution doesn't cut it especially when we lose all the bonus features DVDs carry when we buy or rent them.
When we give up so much for "convenience" sake w should at least get a better picture.
Stan
www.pollywogtheater.com
Every DVD encryption method has been hacked. You think some client side/server side iTunes software or special file format is any different?
There are guys hoping for new encryption methods just so they break them within 24 hours.
24 hours - has A.I. EVER been wrong before?
24 hours - is it a case of Apple throwing out the rumor to test the water? or throwing it out to PROVE to the studios that 24 Hrs isnt gonna fly to well on the blogsphere?
24 hours - is it Apple throwing it out there, so the hype gets going, negative though it is, and then Steve spake unto them and sayth "42" haha .. ok 48 or 72 or a week, and the crowd, well.. the crowd goes nuts -BOOM.
--
how WOULD 24 hrs work?
Timed is out - exploding media is out ain't gonna work, and if thats what it is then I'll gladly eat my hat, in the AWE that Steve must have lost his ability to strike a deal with the studios.
but hey ho, I'll bite, how does it work?
On a computer.
24 hours begins AFTER download, from you first hit PLAY on the mac/pc running iTunes 3,2,1 GO!
On an iPod.
24 Hrs begins once you sync. it. once synced you STILL have 24 Hrs to play it on the computer. but as long as you don't sync. the iPod AFTER that 24 hours it remains playable on the iPod, SIMPLE. The media you have rented does NOT explode INSIDE the iPod, you can go away for the week for business or pleasure and watch the movie whenever you want.
But, once you sync back to that computer/iTunes you get a warning saying your time was up a week ago so iTunes will remove the file/movie for you, also "don't worry, no late fee"*
ATV is somewhat the same, your 24 hrs starts once the sync. is COMPLETE. after that it gets slightly tricky, but only slightly, as the ATV can be synced wirelessly, IF you have the computer/iTunes running, and the 24 hrs elapses a warning will pop up letting you know the time has expired, in this case it may well be that the media can indeed seem to explode from the ATV because iTunes will sync wirelessly and remove the file.
BUT, if you switch the computer/iTunes OFF or move the ATV out of wireless sync range (take it to the friends/beach house) then it will keep playing the movie until it gets re-synced, JUST like the iPod - again, SIMPLE.
--
One thing no-one seems to have mentioned so far is, "What happens if my 24 Hrs finishes part way through the movie?"
Well I guess thats only really relevant on the wirelessly synced ATV.
You get to keep playing the movie and don't get a warning until you press pause. that would seem fair-ish.
But thats IF its 24 Hrs, and IMO thats a BIG "IF"
Most people seem ok with it being 48 though. and I reckon thats the shortest time you will see.
Anyway, those are my thoughts.
*Gonna play Macworld bingo, on Steve using that phrase, or it popping on screen.
? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video
iTS purchased video look as a good as DVD on my 37" LG HD LCD TV (that is a lot of initialisms). Perhaps my Sony DVD player is crap or the AppleTV is up-converting content, but it is indistinguishable from my couch which is 10' away. The former is connected via Component, the latter is via HDMI.
I would like to see 720p quality but this rampant torch and pitchfork party against iTS video is unfounded from my point of view. Wouldn't using 720x480 resolution tax the CPu and therefore reduce the battery of your iDevice since it would have to work harder to alter the unbalanced resolution to fit the display?
OK- No matter how you find the video quality comparison there is no way you can possibly think that the audio on an iTunes movie is anyway near that of a DVD- no way.
I don't understand how the DVDs can be the same but have different serial numbers. Are you saying that your DVD would come with a print serial number that when added to your iTunes account forever allows you to use any DVD containing that same movie with your authorized account?
They have been doing it for years with challenge/response. Or even with regular serial numbers - if you buy Final Cut, they include a serial number to make the app run. You don't think those dvd's are all different, do you?
The dvd has a file that won't run until it's authorized. You type in a serial number that comes on a piece of paper with the dvd. iTunes contacts the iTunes server and copies the video file to your hard drive and flags it as authorized and tied to your machine.
It doesn't matter because there will be a hack to bypass the 24 hour limit anyway. You will also be able to burn it to DVD.
Every DVD encryption method has been hacked. You think some client side/server side iTunes software or special file format is any different?
There are guys hoping for new encryption methods just so they break them within 24 hours.
Do they have those hacks for the iTunes videos already for sale? Including burning to dvd? It doesn't really matter if they get hacked, the studios are usually happy just to get drm at all since the average person won't take the trouble of hacking the drm.