Am I My Brother's Keeper? McCain, Peabody Western Coal Company & the Dineh-Navajo

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Comments

  • flat stanleyflat stanley Posts: 236member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sslarson View Post


    I'm afraid that the facts and evidence of (both current and past) history don't comport with your opinion.



    Now, if you had said:







    Then you would be right.



    Look at China, India, the (now former) communist block countries, Africa (which is mostly socialist) or south and central America where the same ideas are well established.



    The trouble with socialism/communism/marxism is that it is more like a slow cancer that imperceptibly (at first) begins its destructive work which means that many so-called intellectuals are enamored of it because they look at (what appear to be) short-term benefits but either do not see or simply ignore the long-term consequences.



    I could go on and on about how "unrestricted capitalism" has elevated the standard of living higher and faster and for more people than any other system of social organization know to many. Instead, I'll simply leave you with this recent essay.







    My criticism of unrestricted capitalism should not be interpreted as a nod for socialism or communism. Capitalism is a great thing, but it will devour everything in is path if unbridled. I stand by my comments.
  • sammi josammi jo Posts: 4,634member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Flat Stanley View Post


    My criticism of unrestricted capitalism should not be interpreted as a nod for socialism or communism. Capitalism is a great thing, but it will devour everything in is path if unbridled. I stand by my comments.



    I don't know whose quote this is, but it sounds on the money, so to speak.



    "If we allow ourselves the privilege of capitalism, then we must pay the penalty of socialism in the form of a safety net, in order to maintain a civil society".
  • sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,329member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post


    This?



    And this is not exclusive to McCain. It included many other political figures and even Supreme Court judges from all party persuasions. You can't discount the evidence or the UN report on this crime. The only exception is that the one involved the most is currently running for President. Honestly, they all should be rounded up and tried for human rights violations in my opinion.







    The Democrats should debate him on his record, on his policies and on his willingness to refute the claims that will eventually surface. His own Republican opponents have used unethical character assassination on him too (and they succeeded!). So expect a very intense debate on either side and the slime of all of them to come to the surface. Excluding one. You know who that is.



    Obama cannot debate McCain on his record. Obama needs to avoid talk of records and experience, especially when the issue is national security. Mccain will make Obama look like a 12 year old boy on these matters. He'll come off as the wise grandfather figure who has both experience war and those that wage it. Obama will come off as the cute kid with big ideas and bigger ears.



    No, Obama needs to continue to do what he has been doing: Talking about Change? and The 21st Century?. The only way he can use McCain's record is to paint him as part of the Washington Establishment.
  • tontontonton Posts: 14,064member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    Obama cannot debate McCain on his record. Obama needs to avoid talk of records and experience, especially when the issue is national security. Mccain will make Obama look like a 12 year old boy on these matters. He'll come off as the wise grandfather figure who has both experience war and those that wage it. Obama will come off as the cute kid with big ideas and bigger ears.



    No, Obama needs to continue to do what he has been doing: Talking about Change? and The 21st Century?. The only way he can use McCain's record is to paint him as part of the Washington Establishment.



    Would be all fine and dandy except to most voters this time around, security is not even on the list of top 5 issues. Military is, but Obama can certainly attack McCain on Military. American voters are against the Iraq war and they are against pre-emptive action on Iran.
  • @_@ artman@_@ artman Posts: 5,231member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    Obama cannot debate McCain on his record. Obama needs to avoid talk of records and experience, especially when the issue is national security. Mccain will make Obama look like a 12 year old boy on these matters. He'll come off as the wise grandfather figure who has both experience war and those that wage it. Obama will come off as the cute kid with big ideas and bigger ears.



    Clever. You have every right to ridicule Obama all you like. I will refrain from ridiculing McCain as much as I would with Bush for this reply.



    Quote:

    No, Obama needs to continue to do what he has been doing: Talking about Change™ and The 21st Century™. The only way he can use McCain's record is to paint him as part of the Washington Establishment.



    You mean with records and experience, Obama respects McCain's experience so I think he'll challenge the record. I believe Obama can handle the pressure and he has shown that he can abstain of even using ridicule against his opponent. But I think he knows that McCain speaks from the hip and it's only one step away from a "Bomb, Bomb Iran™" or a "100, 1000, 1 Million Years™".*



    The quagmire in Afghanistan and Iraq wars (and edging toward another) are not helping our security one bit. It's bleeding our soldiers, civilians, ourselves and our coffers dry.



    * Sorry, couldn't help myself.
  • sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,329member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    Would be all fine and dandy except to most voters this time around, security is not even on the list of top 5 issues. Military is, but Obama can certainly attack McCain on Military. American voters are against the Iraq war and they are against pre-emptive action on Iran.



    It depends on how the question is asked and how the responses are measured. For example, take this USA Today Gallup Poll:



    Quote:



    "Now I am going to read a list of some of the issues that will probably be discussed in this year?s presidential election campaign. As I read each one, please tell me how important the candidates' positions on that issue will be in influencing your vote for president: extremely important, very important, somewhat important, or not important. How about [see below]?"

    .



    Extremely/

    Very Important\t\t

    %\t\t

    .



    The economy\t 89\t\t

    .



    The situation in Iraq\t 87\t\t

    .



    Education\t 81\t\t

    .



    Corruption in government\t 79\t\t

    .



    Health care\t 79\t\t

    .



    Energy, including gas prices\t 79\t\t

    .



    Terrorism\t 77





    So, it's down the list, but 77% of people refer to "terrorism" as extremely or very important. Iraq is number two, with 87% saying it's extremely or very important.



    Now, look at this CBS Poll on "the most important issues" facing the country.



    Quote:



    Economy/Jobs 38\t\t

    War in Iraq 21\t\t

    Health care 6\t\t

    Immigration 4\t\t

    Terrorism 3\t






    The question is whether the above holds true if the issue becomes just "national security" if the numbers change, and I suspect they will. It's still a very important issue.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post


    Clever. You have every right to ridicule Obama all you like. I will refrain from ridiculing McCain as much as I would with Bush for this reply.



    I'm not ridiculing him. I disagree with him and don't feel he should be President. [/quote]







    You mean with records and experience, Obama respects McCain's experience so I think he'll challenge the record. I believe Obama can handle the pressure and he has shown that he can abstain of even using ridicule against his opponent. But I think he knows that McCain speaks from the hip and it's only one step away from a "Bomb, Bomb Iran?" or a "100, 1000, 1 Million Years?". [/quote]



    Well, we'll see if McCain goes off. He doesn't speak from the hip as much as Michele Obama, apparently!



    Quote:



    The quagmire in Afghanistan and Iraq wars (and edging toward another) are not helping our security one bit. It's bleeding our soldiers, civilians, ourselves and our coffers dry.



    * Sorry, couldn't help myself.



    I disagree they are quagmires and I disagree we are not safer for having removed both Saddam Hussein and the Taliban from power.
  • @_@ artman@_@ artman Posts: 5,231member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    I'm not ridiculing him.



    Quote:

    Mccain will make Obama look like a 12 year old boy on these matters. He'll come off as the wise grandfather figure who has both experience war and those that wage it. Obama will come off as the cute kid with big ideas and bigger ears.



    I am quibbling though, from now on McCain = "Crazy Grampa" to me.



    Quote:

    I disagree with him and don't feel he should be President.



    Should or could? I know my answer already...



    Quote:

    Well, we'll see if McCain goes off. He doesn't speak from the hip as much as Michele Obama, apparently!



    What, you mean the bullshit stirring on her "I'm proud of my country" statement? You've been watching O'Reilly again haven't you.



    Quote:

    I disagree they are quagmires and I disagree we are not safer for having removed both Saddam Hussein and the Taliban from power.



    In order to have failed in doing so, we've made a mess of both operations. We are throwing millions of dollars a day into them and getting nothing back. Occupying either country will not prevent terrorism or become successful. And we'll lose our country (economically) as well.



    Oh and we'll not know whether The Surge™ has worked or will continue to work until this guy lifts his cease fire.
  • flounderflounder Posts: 2,674member
    Boy, I was really unsure the first 7 posts, but the eighth convinced me!
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