Apple's open secret: SproutCore is Cocoa for the Web

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Comments

  • cubertcubert Posts: 728member
    I Keynote viewer app for Windoze is definitely needed. However, iWork and iLife apps definitely need to remain Mac-only! There have to be many reasons for people to switch - you can't give it all away!
  • solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cubert View Post


    I Keynote viewer app for Windoze is definitely needed. However, iWork and iLife apps definitely need to remain Mac-only! There have to be many reasons for people to switch - you can't give it all away!



    I think iWork and Mobile Me can benefit from each other. It would be nice that if I were to install iWork on my Mac AND have a Mobile Me account that it would tell the Mobile Me servers to enable the iWork app buttons when viewing via the web. This would allow me to view and edit documents that I wish to auto-sync to Mobile Me. It would also sync them across my Macs and potentially to my Windows machines, too.



    I can see this being an value add that would increase sales for both iWork and Mobile Me. Personally, I have no use for iWork because TextEdit can read RTF and DOC files, but if I need iWork to be able view them and sync them effortlessly to my online account I would consider purchasing it. I could always use Google Docs, but that requires some effort on my part.



    As for Keynote on Windows, I think having one built into Mobile Me would be fine with an option to export as PPT. You can already save as a PPT file so I don't see a need for a standalone viewer on Windows to accomplish this.
  • irelandireland Posts: 15,021member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cubert View Post


    I Keynote viewer app for Windoze is definitely needed. However, iWork and iLife apps definitely need to remain Mac-only! There have to be many reasons for people to switch - you can't give it all away!



    I totally disagree. Totally!
  • aegisdesignaegisdesign Posts: 2,914member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    As for Keynote on Windows, I think having one built into Mobile Me would be fine with an option to export as PPT. You can already save as a PPT file so I don't see a need for a standalone viewer on Windows to accomplish this.



    We're going slightly off topic now but there is a need for a Keynote compatible viewer (280slides isn't it btw - I said it was Keynote-like) because the PPT export loses many of the fancy transitions that only Keynote is capable of and Powerpoint isn't.



    MVC Frameworks like Sproutcore and Cappuccino and the data storage in HTML5 make it much easier for web developers to get that bit closer.



    My only concern though is that you need a decently fast javascript interpreter and decently fast computer to run the apps.
  • solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post


    My only concern though is that you need a decently fast javascript interpreter and decently fast computer to run the apps.



    I'm not sure if it's in the Safari 4 beta yet, but WebKit started implementing ways to reduce page loading latency a few months back which suggest that page loading will appear to occur much faster.
    "When script loading halts the main parser, we start up a side parser that goes through the rest of the HTML source to find more resources to load. We also prioritize resources so that scripts and stylesheets load before images. The overall effect is that we are now able to load more resources in parallel with scripts, including other scripts."
  • wilcowilco Posts: 985member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinney57 View Post


    This is huge.



    http://www.roughlydrafted.com/



    Great article here.



    Thanks for the link.
  • coffeetimecoffeetime Posts: 116member
    Perhaps this will be the secret sauce that unlocks the potential of AppleTV. Watch movies, listen to music AND use it as your internet portal, with desktop-like web apps all at your disposal.
  • solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by coffeetime View Post


    Perhaps this will be the secret sauce that unlocks the potential of AppleTV. Watch movies, listen to music AND use it as your internet portal, with desktop-like web apps all at your disposal.



    Apple could add Cocoa apps and Safari to it right now, but it would negate the intended use of the device, and make it more difficult to use. If you want a Mac for your home entertainment system the Mac Mini makes an excellent option with a faster CPU, more RAM and an optical drive.
  • wigginwiggin Posts: 2,037member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Apple could add Cocoa apps and Safari to it right now, but it would negate the intended use of the device, and make it more difficult to use. If you want a Mac for your home entertainment system the Mac Mini makes an excellent option with a faster CPU, more RAM and an optical drive.



    Not to mention that the current Apple TV would likely be woefully underpowered to run JavaScript fast enough to be useable. Isn't the CPU similar to a 1 GHz Pentium or something like that? And without Bluetooth you'd be tethered with a keyboard sitting 2 feet in front of your big screen TV.



    But we digress...
  • lantznlantzn Posts: 240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    As for Keynote on Windows, I think having one built into Mobile Me would be fine with an option to export as PPT. You can already save as a PPT file so I don't see a need for a standalone viewer on Windows to accomplish this.



    You my friend have obviously not tried exporting your graphic rich Keynote presentation into PPT, to play on a coporate PC only network, only to feel dissapointed in ALL that is lost. I've been wishing for a PC Keynote Player as well. Years ago MS use to provide a free PPT Player for Mac before they finally released PPT on Mac. Why can't Apple do the same?
  • mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 6,751member
    Sprout is Javascript with Cocoa Bindings equivalent bindings for the Web.
  • aegisdesignaegisdesign Posts: 2,914member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post


    Not to mention that the current Apple TV would likely be woefully underpowered to run JavaScript fast enough to be useable. Isn't the CPU similar to a 1 GHz Pentium or something like that? And without Bluetooth you'd be tethered with a keyboard sitting 2 feet in front of your big screen TV.



    It's a 1Ghz Pentium-M 'Crofton'. It'd be fast enough to run most javascript apps. It's easily quicker than most of the G4 era Macs and would seem like a speed demon compared with say an iPhone.
  • nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post


    ...I pulled out of web development a while back, this might just entice me back...



    Yup. I just might get back into thar Web if it is as sexy as "Cocoa For Web". I love hot chocolate and interntet p... oh ok *aheM*.



    Back on topic, hope you all in the US and those on the cutting edge push this into the mainstream as soon as possible. It will filter to the rest of the world in about 5 years. Let's bring it down to 2 years. As much as I still think Flash has a useful role, COCOA FOR WEB w000t. Bring on the fanboy accusations...
  • solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lantzn View Post


    You my friend have obviously not tried exporting your graphic rich Keynote presentation into PPT, to play on a coporate PC only network, only to feel dissapointed in ALL that is lost.



    I have not. I have only played with iWork to see how they work. That is too bad that they aren't more compatible.
  • nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    Sprout is Javascript with Cocoa Bindings equivalent bindings for the Web.



    Cocoa For Web sounds tres cool, though...
  • nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post


    It's a 1Ghz Pentium-M 'Crofton'. It'd be fast enough to run most javascript apps. It's easily quicker than most of the G4 era Macs and would seem like a speed demon compared with say an iPhone.



    Interestingly, as you all know well, the Pentium M was the design that fueled Intel's "Core Duo, Core2" recovery after getting its butt handed to it by AMD during the terrible Pentium 4 days.
  • squirrel_monkeysquirrel_monkey Posts: 99member
    No one has mentioned this here, but .Mac Web Gallery and iWeb pages do not render in Firefox 3 as of Release Candidate 3. It is hard to say if this will hurt Apple's standing as Safari and WebKit are creeping into the Windows realm, but it is frustrating to build these cute little galleries only to have to send more instructions to friends and relatives so they can actually see them.
  • jasenj1jasenj1 Posts: 784member
    Well, the site is still down - not a good omen for a framework that is supposed to be being adopted by Apple - so I'm reduced to empty speculation.



    How is this different than something like extjs or Echo other than it does things in a Cocoa-like way?



    I checked the RoughlyDrafted article and didn't see anything of substance beyond maybe: "A key component of its clean MVC philosophy that roots SproutCore into Cocoa goodness is bindings, which allows developers to write JavaScript that automatically runs any time a property value changes." So you can have property watchers and do things when things change without explicitly invoking a function. Sounds nice, not earth-shattering or paradigm shifting or anysuch.



    And as aegisdesign pointed out, there's already some competing frameworks in the form of Objective-J/Cappucino and Coherent - so now we have multiple Cocoa-like JavaScript libraries.



    Sure, SproutCore sounds interesting to help developers used to writing code for OS X to carry those thought processes over to the web, but I don't see that as a game changer. Nor do I see the hordes of web developers not following "the Mac Way" suddenly getting religion and adopting this framework just because Apple endorses it.



    Sorry for being a doubter, but right now I see lots of sizzle and not much substance.



    - Jasen.
  • vinney57vinney57 Posts: 1,162member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jasenj1 View Post


    Well, the site is still down - not a good omen for a framework that is supposed to be being adopted by Apple - so I'm reduced to empty speculation.



    How is this different than something like extjs or Echo other than it does things in a Cocoa-like way?



    I checked the RoughlyDrafted article and didn't see anything of substance beyond maybe: "A key component of its clean MVC philosophy that roots SproutCore into Cocoa goodness is bindings, which allows developers to write JavaScript that automatically runs any time a property value changes." So you can have property watchers and do things when things change without explicitly invoking a function. Sounds nice, not earth-shattering or paradigm shifting or anysuch.



    And as aegisdesign pointed out, there's already some competing frameworks in the form of Objective-J/Cappucino and Coherent - so now we have multiple Cocoa-like JavaScript libraries.



    Sure, SproutCore sounds interesting to help developers used to writing code for OS X to carry those thought processes over to the web, but I don't see that as a game changer. Nor do I see the hordes of web developers not following "the Mac Way" suddenly getting religion and adopting this framework just because Apple endorses it.



    Sorry for being a doubter, but right now I see lots of sizzle and not much substance.



    - Jasen.



    I suspect the site is down because it got carpet bombed as soon as this hit the airwaves.



    It is no different than those other frameworks except that is endorsed by by Apple and used to implement the mobileMe suite. That's kind of game over right there.



    The greater significance is strategic. I think you are missing the point.
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