If Mini Display Port is all Apple will be using from now on, and there won't be adapters made for it, am I to believe my early 2008 eight core Mac Pro will never work with the upcoming LED displays? I've been drooling for months over an LED 30 inch ACD, and now it might not happen?? This makes me kind of sad.
So you don't think not being able to turn off the monitor without turning off the computer is an issue? I turn my monitor off all the time if I'm away from the computer for more than 15 minutes but less than a couple hours. It saves energy and increase the monitor's longevity. Meanwhile, I'm usually uploading, downloading, or encoding so Sleep isn't an option.
I understand what you mean, I like having a button, but setting the computer to turn off the screen after a few minutes of non-use isn't an option? I think the option is in the same place where you turn on the screen saver, have it turn off the screen after five minutes or somesuch.
If Mini Display Port is all Apple will be using from now on, and there won't be adapters made for it, am I to believe my early 2008 eight core Mac Pro will never work with the upcoming LED displays? I've been drooling for months over an LED 30 inch ACD, and now it might not happen?? This makes me kind of sad.
Adapters will be made, but Apple probably won't make convertors. But current Mac Pro owners are the only ones who have a light at the end of the tunnel as they will only have to buy a new GPU with mDP or DP to use any new mDP or DP displays. While that will annoy plenty, at least current Mac Pro users won't have to buy a whole new machine to utilize the new displays.
If Mini Display Port is all Apple will be using from now on, and there won't be adapters made for it, am I to believe my early 2008 eight core Mac Pro will never work with the upcoming LED displays? I've been drooling for months over an LED 30 inch ACD, and now it might not happen?? This makes me kind of sad.
You would need to buy a new graphics card that has DisplayPort, but this illustrates another problem: the lack of graphics card options for the Mac Pro. Mac Pro users are limited to buying last year's cards at inflated prices. Instead of waiting 1 or 2 years to update graphics cards along with the Mac Pro, Apple should sell new graphics cards as soon as they become available. And make these newer cards available to current Mac Pro owners. They should also offer a card that fills the huge gap between the Geforce 8800 and the Quadro FX. For example, the GTX 260 or 280.
Right now, the only LED backlit display on the market today is Apple's LED Cinema Display.
That's just plain false. There have been opposingLED-backlit displays for at least several weeks, if not a few months. \
And as for glare and reflections, what ever did we do before matte flat panel displays? We had glossy CRT's, if I'm not mistaken. I had an old TV that was completely unviewable without shutting the curtains and thus dictated the layout of the room. As far as I'm concerned, it's only two steps forward, one step back. No biggie. So what did we do? We had anti-glare filters that we clipped onto the monitor. Why not do it again? Apple could even approach this idea with an over-priced, aesthetically-complimentary screen filter for both the ACD and the iMac.
That's just plain false. There have been opposingLED-backlit displays for at least several weeks, if not a few months.
My error. I should have said "large", i.e., 24" and larger. Note, the ViewSonic is a 22 " 'cheap' TN+Film LCD monitor and as this tech review demonstrates, it is far less than what is expected from this new technology. http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...reen-monitor/1
And as for glare and reflections, what ever did we do before matte flat panel displays? We had glossy CRT's, if I'm not mistaken. I had an old TV that was completely unviewable without shutting the curtains and thus dictated the layout of the room. As far as I'm concerned, it's only two steps forward, one step back. No biggie. So what did we do? We had anti-glare filters that we clipped onto the monitor. Why not do it again? Apple could even approach this idea with an over-priced, aesthetically-complimentary screen filter for both the ACD and the iMac.
Back in the CRT days, some of us bought CRTs with Rayleigh coatings, for a visual example of one:
The little disc is a piece of untreated glass, a camera filter to illustrate the difference with direct light.
I also have a Sony, IBM and Viewsonic that have similar surface treatments as part of the original device, no tacky add-on. They weren't textured coatings either, just extremely thin optical coatings that either gradually changed the index of refraction or cancelled out reflections as they came back.
Most people doing design or prepress work are not doing it outside so the matte screen with a more accurate (i.e., not oversaturated) color representation will always be preferable to that group.
I was just reminiscing the other day about how the traditionalists argued that film could never be replaced by digital imaging .... oh the debates were fun back then. I also remember type setters screaming Mac's keyboards were far too small for them. Pre press folks love to fight progress at times.
Although most blacks are neutral in color, the thick black border is not design neutral. Video editing environments and print environments all tend to use GREY for neutrality. Even Apple's own Apple Store theaters are grey.
The thick black frame "fights" with designs on the screen and will therefore, influence design decisions. The black border will not stay neutral in your everyday design decision, there are reasons to why grey was picked over black as the neutral color for professionals.
Now I am glad that I bought the aluminum 20 inchers for my work.
Isn't this screen fort the MacBook? Don't professionals have a pair of 30" ACDs on a Mac Pro?
I was just reminiscing the other day about how the traditionalists argued that film could never be replaced by digital imaging .... oh the debates were fun back then. I also remember type setters screaming Mac's keyboards were far too small for them. Pre press folks love to fight progress at times.
Makes sense. As far as I can tell, it's a basic point of physics that a matte, diffuse screen is going to wash out the picture whenever you have incident light. A glossy screen is going to take away that wash-out effect, so it will seem oversaturated on the same settings when those settings are probably there to compensate for that wash-out. Screens can be calibrated so if any treatment does funny stuff with colors, the color profile can probably be adjusted to compensate.
I understand that this display is designed for notebooks and not desktops, and I imagine that as a result we'll see a 20", another 24" and a 30" introduced soon that is designed for desktop Macs and doesn't have the MagSafe connector hanging off it. Therefore I think we need to ignore the desktop factor, at least for now.
However, as a notebook dock, I'm not thrilled. Firstly, I can't understand why anyone would buy this and use their notebook in clamshell mode. I have a 20" widescreen LCD which I have over to the right of my MacBook Pro and use that for extended desktop - far better. In that spirit, I fail to see the need for the iSight (especially considering it apparently forces you to use the one on the Cinema, not on the notebook) or the speakers (same deal as iSight). I'm also compelled to wonder why the display itself doesn't have a line out (or optical) port for connecting to a separate speaker set if the user owns them, so that there's less cables that need to be connected to the laptop when you bring it home.
The fact is I got my 20" 1680x1050 display for AU$220, and a USB hub for AU$7, and I've got the same docking station experience. If I cared that much, I could go and buy a second MagSafe charger for another $110. If I wanted a 24" I could have got a Samsung or Dell for $4-600, and still come in well below the AU$1500 for the Cinema. For that price difference, LED isn't a factor.
The other thing that's completely baffling me is that Apple went to the effort of redesigning the 20 pin DisplayPort connector to make it smaller and more attractive, but neglected to add an extra 4 pins. If they had, they could have run USB through the connector with it, meaning the the new ACD would only require two connections (Magsafe and MDP), rather than 3. It would also free up a USB port! In addition to that, they could have stuck a USB connector on the DVI adaptor, and the dual link adaptor would be able to power itself through the connector rather than taking half the USB ports on your computer. And I'd say that doing that would probably help it overtake full DisplayPort as the number one DP connector.
Finally, on the glossy vs matte issue, there seems to be some confusion here. Someone was implying that turning matte to glossy involves more than a filter, but seem to be forgetting that most glossy notebooks use a special coating on the glass. Apple is doing something different with the polished glass, and it's actually more glossy than most glossy screens. And I can't see a reason why having the large plate of glass would prevent them from having matte - after all, matte screens are glass too!
If Mini Display Port is all Apple will be using from now on, and there won't be adapters made for it, am I to believe my early 2008 eight core Mac Pro will never work with the upcoming LED displays? I've been drooling for months over an LED 30 inch ACD, and now it might not happen?? This makes me kind of sad.
Not anytime soon, the 30" LED displays I've seen up upwards of three grand...not that Apple would mind.
Makes sense. As far as I can tell, it's a basic point of physics that a matte, diffuse screen is going to wash out the picture whenever you have incident light. A glossy screen is going to take away that wash-out effect, so it will seem oversaturated on the same settings when those settings are probably there to compensate for that wash-out. Screens can be calibrated so if any treatment does funny stuff with colors, the color profile can probably be adjusted to compensate.
Yep, if we could calibrate some of those monitors back in the 80's I am sure we can calibrate anything!
Going from a machine with DVI to DP won't work with an adapter. You need some sort of converter, which I doubt Apple will make. Now, going from a machine with DP to a monitor with DVI/HDMI only requires a simple adapter that alters the port interface.
Not true. The DisplayPort video signal is fully compatible with Single Link DVI. It's just the pin arrangement that's different.
Dual Link DVI is another story, it needs actual signal conversion, hence the adaptor for it is huge and needs power.
EDIT: Actually, just double checked and I appear to be mistaken. Apologies.
Seems like I must be the only guy that has no issue with the glossy MacBook Pro and the glossy 24" LED Cinema Display. To be honest, I did wonder if there would be a problem, but I now know that there are no reflection issues for me.
I collected my 24" CD on Saturday (from Mostly digital, London, ON), the display is a gem to use. No cabling hassles when I return home with my MBP, I just plug it in, no power brick needed. It means I never forget the MBP power brick, it stays in the bag.
When you ctrl + shift + eject, the MBP keeps running, it doesn't sleep. The 24" brightness can be adjusted in display settings.
My Colormunki arrives next week so color calibration will be sorted real soon, even without color calibration it is pretty close to the MBP screen.
What do I use it for, Mainly Lightroom, PS, web and then all the normal document prep stuff.
SolidWorks output also looks good on the 24" CD, very sharp (BTW most of my DWG output is solid black).
Don't complain about something you haven't tried, but I guess that if you live on a sun deck then it may not work for you.
Does this display suffer from the same problems of the 24" iMac monitor, namely uneven brightness level across the whole display area? This is very noticeable and very annoying on my iMac.
Old 20" Cinema Display+Mac mini: Perfect display, no reflecions
New 24" iMac: Very uneven display, lots of reflections. A definite step backwards.
Comments
Not true -- that's what Control + Shift + Eject is for. This will turn off all displays, internal and external.
Didn't know that, thanks!
So you don't think not being able to turn off the monitor without turning off the computer is an issue? I turn my monitor off all the time if I'm away from the computer for more than 15 minutes but less than a couple hours. It saves energy and increase the monitor's longevity. Meanwhile, I'm usually uploading, downloading, or encoding so Sleep isn't an option.
I understand what you mean, I like having a button, but setting the computer to turn off the screen after a few minutes of non-use isn't an option? I think the option is in the same place where you turn on the screen saver, have it turn off the screen after five minutes or somesuch.
If Mini Display Port is all Apple will be using from now on, and there won't be adapters made for it, am I to believe my early 2008 eight core Mac Pro will never work with the upcoming LED displays? I've been drooling for months over an LED 30 inch ACD, and now it might not happen?? This makes me kind of sad.
Adapters will be made, but Apple probably won't make convertors. But current Mac Pro owners are the only ones who have a light at the end of the tunnel as they will only have to buy a new GPU with mDP or DP to use any new mDP or DP displays. While that will annoy plenty, at least current Mac Pro users won't have to buy a whole new machine to utilize the new displays.
If Mini Display Port is all Apple will be using from now on, and there won't be adapters made for it, am I to believe my early 2008 eight core Mac Pro will never work with the upcoming LED displays? I've been drooling for months over an LED 30 inch ACD, and now it might not happen?? This makes me kind of sad.
You would need to buy a new graphics card that has DisplayPort, but this illustrates another problem: the lack of graphics card options for the Mac Pro. Mac Pro users are limited to buying last year's cards at inflated prices. Instead of waiting 1 or 2 years to update graphics cards along with the Mac Pro, Apple should sell new graphics cards as soon as they become available. And make these newer cards available to current Mac Pro owners. They should also offer a card that fills the huge gap between the Geforce 8800 and the Quadro FX. For example, the GTX 260 or 280.
Right now, the only LED backlit display on the market today is Apple's LED Cinema Display.
That's just plain false. There have been opposing LED-backlit displays for at least several weeks, if not a few months.
And as for glare and reflections, what ever did we do before matte flat panel displays? We had glossy CRT's, if I'm not mistaken. I had an old TV that was completely unviewable without shutting the curtains and thus dictated the layout of the room. As far as I'm concerned, it's only two steps forward, one step back. No biggie. So what did we do? We had anti-glare filters that we clipped onto the monitor. Why not do it again? Apple could even approach this idea with an over-priced, aesthetically-complimentary screen filter for both the ACD and the iMac.
That's just plain false. There have been opposing LED-backlit displays for at least several weeks, if not a few months.
My error. I should have said "large", i.e., 24" and larger. Note, the ViewSonic is a 22 " 'cheap' TN+Film LCD monitor and as this tech review demonstrates, it is far less than what is expected from this new technology. http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...reen-monitor/1
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/viewsonic_vled221wm
And as for glare and reflections, what ever did we do before matte flat panel displays? We had glossy CRT's, if I'm not mistaken. I had an old TV that was completely unviewable without shutting the curtains and thus dictated the layout of the room. As far as I'm concerned, it's only two steps forward, one step back. No biggie. So what did we do? We had anti-glare filters that we clipped onto the monitor. Why not do it again? Apple could even approach this idea with an over-priced, aesthetically-complimentary screen filter for both the ACD and the iMac.
Back in the CRT days, some of us bought CRTs with Rayleigh coatings, for a visual example of one:
The little disc is a piece of untreated glass, a camera filter to illustrate the difference with direct light.
I also have a Sony, IBM and Viewsonic that have similar surface treatments as part of the original device, no tacky add-on. They weren't textured coatings either, just extremely thin optical coatings that either gradually changed the index of refraction or cancelled out reflections as they came back.
Does the audio go through the USB or the DP connector?
If it is USB, could you please plug it in to a Mac Pro and see what happens?
Also, there is a paragraph on page 2 that looks like it came from a Macbook review (the "caveat" one).
Most people doing design or prepress work are not doing it outside so the matte screen with a more accurate (i.e., not oversaturated) color representation will always be preferable to that group.
I was just reminiscing the other day about how the traditionalists argued that film could never be replaced by digital imaging .... oh the debates were fun back then. I also remember type setters screaming Mac's keyboards were far too small for them. Pre press folks love to fight progress at times.
Although most blacks are neutral in color, the thick black border is not design neutral. Video editing environments and print environments all tend to use GREY for neutrality. Even Apple's own Apple Store theaters are grey.
The thick black frame "fights" with designs on the screen and will therefore, influence design decisions. The black border will not stay neutral in your everyday design decision, there are reasons to why grey was picked over black as the neutral color for professionals.
Now I am glad that I bought the aluminum 20 inchers for my work.
Isn't this screen fort the MacBook? Don't professionals have a pair of 30" ACDs on a Mac Pro?
I was just reminiscing the other day about how the traditionalists argued that film could never be replaced by digital imaging .... oh the debates were fun back then. I also remember type setters screaming Mac's keyboards were far too small for them. Pre press folks love to fight progress at times.
Makes sense. As far as I can tell, it's a basic point of physics that a matte, diffuse screen is going to wash out the picture whenever you have incident light. A glossy screen is going to take away that wash-out effect, so it will seem oversaturated on the same settings when those settings are probably there to compensate for that wash-out. Screens can be calibrated so if any treatment does funny stuff with colors, the color profile can probably be adjusted to compensate.
I understand that this display is designed for notebooks and not desktops, and I imagine that as a result we'll see a 20", another 24" and a 30" introduced soon that is designed for desktop Macs and doesn't have the MagSafe connector hanging off it. Therefore I think we need to ignore the desktop factor, at least for now.
However, as a notebook dock, I'm not thrilled. Firstly, I can't understand why anyone would buy this and use their notebook in clamshell mode. I have a 20" widescreen LCD which I have over to the right of my MacBook Pro and use that for extended desktop - far better. In that spirit, I fail to see the need for the iSight (especially considering it apparently forces you to use the one on the Cinema, not on the notebook) or the speakers (same deal as iSight). I'm also compelled to wonder why the display itself doesn't have a line out (or optical) port for connecting to a separate speaker set if the user owns them, so that there's less cables that need to be connected to the laptop when you bring it home.
The fact is I got my 20" 1680x1050 display for AU$220, and a USB hub for AU$7, and I've got the same docking station experience. If I cared that much, I could go and buy a second MagSafe charger for another $110. If I wanted a 24" I could have got a Samsung or Dell for $4-600, and still come in well below the AU$1500 for the Cinema. For that price difference, LED isn't a factor.
The other thing that's completely baffling me is that Apple went to the effort of redesigning the 20 pin DisplayPort connector to make it smaller and more attractive, but neglected to add an extra 4 pins. If they had, they could have run USB through the connector with it, meaning the the new ACD would only require two connections (Magsafe and MDP), rather than 3. It would also free up a USB port! In addition to that, they could have stuck a USB connector on the DVI adaptor, and the dual link adaptor would be able to power itself through the connector rather than taking half the USB ports on your computer. And I'd say that doing that would probably help it overtake full DisplayPort as the number one DP connector.
Finally, on the glossy vs matte issue, there seems to be some confusion here. Someone was implying that turning matte to glossy involves more than a filter, but seem to be forgetting that most glossy notebooks use a special coating on the glass. Apple is doing something different with the polished glass, and it's actually more glossy than most glossy screens. And I can't see a reason why having the large plate of glass would prevent them from having matte - after all, matte screens are glass too!
If Mini Display Port is all Apple will be using from now on, and there won't be adapters made for it, am I to believe my early 2008 eight core Mac Pro will never work with the upcoming LED displays? I've been drooling for months over an LED 30 inch ACD, and now it might not happen?? This makes me kind of sad.
Not anytime soon, the 30" LED displays I've seen up upwards of three grand...not that Apple would mind.
Makes sense. As far as I can tell, it's a basic point of physics that a matte, diffuse screen is going to wash out the picture whenever you have incident light. A glossy screen is going to take away that wash-out effect, so it will seem oversaturated on the same settings when those settings are probably there to compensate for that wash-out. Screens can be calibrated so if any treatment does funny stuff with colors, the color profile can probably be adjusted to compensate.
Yep, if we could calibrate some of those monitors back in the 80's I am sure we can calibrate anything!
Going from a machine with DVI to DP won't work with an adapter. You need some sort of converter, which I doubt Apple will make. Now, going from a machine with DP to a monitor with DVI/HDMI only requires a simple adapter that alters the port interface.
Not true. The DisplayPort video signal is fully compatible with Single Link DVI. It's just the pin arrangement that's different.
Dual Link DVI is another story, it needs actual signal conversion, hence the adaptor for it is huge and needs power.
EDIT: Actually, just double checked and I appear to be mistaken. Apologies.
I collected my 24" CD on Saturday (from Mostly digital, London, ON), the display is a gem to use. No cabling hassles when I return home with my MBP, I just plug it in, no power brick needed. It means I never forget the MBP power brick, it stays in the bag.
When you ctrl + shift + eject, the MBP keeps running, it doesn't sleep. The 24" brightness can be adjusted in display settings.
My Colormunki arrives next week so color calibration will be sorted real soon, even without color calibration it is pretty close to the MBP screen.
What do I use it for, Mainly Lightroom, PS, web and then all the normal document prep stuff.
SolidWorks output also looks good on the 24" CD, very sharp (BTW most of my DWG output is solid black).
Don't complain about something you haven't tried, but I guess that if you live on a sun deck then it may not work for you.
Update: Found it! http://www.shareapic.net/content.php...owner=Turnbull
Old 20" Cinema Display+Mac mini: Perfect display, no reflecions
New 24" iMac: Very uneven display, lots of reflections. A definite step backwards.
STEVE JOBS DOESN"T CARE ABOUT MATTE PEOPLE!
Steve Jobs needed a higher green rating and threw matte under the bus to get it- that is the bottom line.
Too bad Sony has the patent for hybrid matte/semiglossy - gorgeous screens. Check them out on their Vaio line.
Apple screens now look like looks like HPs- circa 2005.