Apple execs disclose options for boosting iPhone market share

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 94
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    OK, now it's about getting China in. And that's all, which Apple can juice out of "geographic expansion hopes".



    Go corporate, Apple. Kick the shit out of RIM, that's where keys of success are.
  • Reply 62 of 94
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    Though true, it should have better been put following way: carriers in 80 countries distribute iPhones. In France, for instance, all 3 major carriers distribute iPhones. The point on exclusive contracts is of no more interest in regards to iPhone maturity.



    France and a couple other countries have laws that don't allow exclusivity. They fought it where they could, but the resolution is just to make the subsidization option with the select carrier much more attractive than the other carriers by making the unsubsidized price outrageous.



    But what about all those other countries they added on. The iPhone already proved itself in the US so why even do those contracts with all those countries that are exclusively GSM-based. Why has Apple often gone for the 2nd largest carrier in many of these countries? The answer seems simple, they need the carrier to grant them certain access that a Ronin cellphone doesn't have access to.



    With their supposed negotiations with China's 2nd largest carrier this does not seem to be changing.



    The only way I can see Apple selling a free for all iPhone is by offering a smaller device that is mainly just a phone and iPod without the 3.5" screen, the App Store or excellent utilization of the internet. Then most of the reasons Apple needs the carrier tie in goes away, for that device, but I don't see that happening at least until the current iPhone has reached its saturation point.
  • Reply 63 of 94
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    OK, now it's about getting China in. And that's all, which Apple can juice out of "geographic expansion hopes".



    Go corporate, Apple. Kick the shit out of RIM, that's where keys of success are.



    There are a few relatively simple changes that Apple could make to Mail and iCal to make the iPhone much more corporate friendly, but I doesn't look like they care too much.



    The physical keyboard issue will continue to haunt the iPhone for many potential users, but I expect some slick looking flip keyboards to appear within a year. Perhaps a simple and secure add-on that will flip the keyboard up over the spot where the virtual keyboard would be and then you can flip it down to use the entire screen and use a stylus on the backside of the keyboard, too.



    RiM has been selling more devices, partially because of the smartphone interest the iPhone has created, but those sales won't sustain them. Their real revenue is from their corporate services and and server-side HW, but their Push email has become antiquated over the years. It's still relevant, but companies will decide that can get rid of their RiM server and not pay $100 per BB user to receive their email. I think we'll seeing RiM cut cost their costs within a year.



    PS: I wish the iPhone had dual displays. One for personal and one for business. There is another device that has it, I think it's a Nokia.
  • Reply 64 of 94
    Well SHAZAMMM!



    Apple revealed nothing new. The options the say they are considering all fall under normal business practices that every manufacturer of a product manipulates for maximum proft. I would be surprised if Apple were not considering changes in pricing, models, features and bigger markets to make more profit on their great product.



    Roger Mercer
  • Reply 65 of 94
    winterspanwinterspan Posts: 605member
    I got an idea.... make a ******* CDMA iPhone (or use a dual-mode chipset in the new iPhone) for the 135 million Verizon and Sprint customers! And open the iPhone to Tmobile as well!



    With over half of all unit sales occurring in the US, clearly it is very popular here and so the rest of the cellphone users in the USA not with AT&T are a very important market -- probably the most important market worldwide. Screw AT&T's crappy coverage! I can't even get 2G coverage in many areas along the primary highway in my state! WTF!
  • Reply 66 of 94
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by winterspan View Post


    I got an idea.... make a ******* CDMA iPhone (or use a dual-mode chipset in the new iPhone) for the 135 million Verizon and Sprint customers! And open the iPhone to Tmobile as well!



    With over half of all unit sales occurring in the US, clearly it is very popular here and so the rest of the cellphone users in the USA not with AT&T are a very important market -- probably the most important market worldwide. Screw AT&T's crappy coverage! I can't even get 2G coverage in many areas along the primary highway in my state! WTF!



    As I've asked before, if half the sales are outside the US and pretty much all these other countries are entirely GSM/WCDMA using the same frequencies that the iPhone already has, why have they not opened up the iPhone too all those carriers in all these 80+ countries? Surely the iPhone was able to prove itself after the impressive AT&T launch so the idea that they needed a carrier to get off the ground is a moot point. Until that is answered, i can't see how having Apple create a new device for T-Mobile, and for Verizon/Sprint makes any sense.
  • Reply 67 of 94
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    France and a couple other countries have laws that don't allow exclusivity. They fought it where they could, but the resolution is just to make the subsidization option with the select carrier much more attractive than the other carriers by making the unsubsidized price outrageous.



    My point still holds. All that has absolutely nothing to do with iPhone's maturity as a product. There are just customary and legal concerns. iPhone itself does work in plural sandboxes, proved. This is no more crucial to look after it to the tiniest baby stains. Beta testing phase is over.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    But what about all those other countries they added on. The iPhone already proved itself in the US so why even do those contracts with all those countries that are exclusively GSM-based. Why has Apple often gone for the 2nd largest carrier in many of these countries? The answer seems simple, they need the carrier to grant them certain access that a Ronin cellphone doesn't have access to.



    With their supposed negotiations with China's 2nd largest carrier this does not seem to be changing.



    I have my own theory about "number twos". Let's put it frank, no one thought the first phone ever of Apple would be a hurricane success. Number-ones had their self-esteem and market share, number-twos had the motivation to negotiate it right and to work to make it successful.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    The only way I can see Apple selling a free for all iPhone is by offering a smaller device that is mainly just a phone and iPod without the 3.5" screen, the App Store or excellent utilization of the internet. Then most of the reasons Apple needs the carrier tie in goes away, for that device, but I don't see that happening at least until the current iPhone has reached its saturation point.



    No, I'm not so pessimistic. It's already 3rd generation of iPhone that looms in the doorway. I'm quite sure iPhone will stand gloriously absolute majority of networks.
  • Reply 68 of 94
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    I have my own theory about "number twos". Let's put it frank, no one thought the first phone ever of Apple would be a hurricane success. Number-ones had their self-esteem and market share, number-twos had the motivation to negotiate it right and to work to make it successful.



    But why go with an exclusive carrier at all with all those other all-GSM/WCDMA countries. Apple could have just set up a retail price and let the carriers duke it out. But they didn't. The took a successful and established (albeit new) product and inked exclusivity contracts that gave access to 1/5 to a 1/3 of the countries current subscriber-base when they could have opened up the device to the entire country.



    I understand that people want x-device with x-carrier, but I don't understand why there is a refusal to look at Apple's business model and understand that what is wanted is not going to happen if a more obvious solution along that path has not yet occurred. As Sylar would say, it's illogical.
  • Reply 69 of 94
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    There are a few relatively simple changes that Apple could make to Mail and iCal to make the iPhone much more corporate friendly, but I doesn't look like they care too much.



    Absolutely. It's a piece of cake technically to bring iPhone onto acceptable level as a corporate business phone. One can even speculate about existing iChat with existing videoconference capabilities and about already existing KeyNote with all its power. The key point is marketing. I'd say Apple's people declared the interest to enter that world during each of their last media events. To me they may be being interested, it just not so easy to infiltrate.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    The physical keyboard issue will continue to haunt the iPhone for many potential users, but I expect some slick looking flip keyboards to appear within a year. Perhaps a simple and secure add-on that will flip the keyboard up over the spot where the virtual keyboard would be and then you can flip it down to use the entire screen and use a stylus on the backside of the keyboard, too.



    It's anyway useless all those phone keyboards. Show me a businessman, which types readily on the phone keyboard. That's not a case when you need to prove you can do it for your girlfriend Tethering? Virtual keyboards?







    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    RiM has been selling more devices, partially because of the smartphone interest the iPhone has created, but those sales won't sustain them. Their real revenue is from their corporate services and and server-side HW, but their Push email has become antiquated over the years. It's still relevant, but companies will decide that can get rid of their RiM server and not pay $100 per BB user to receive their email. I think we'll seeing RiM cut cost their costs within a year.



    That's it. Apple has very strong marketing. They only never were in corporate world. They have to find the door.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    PS: I wish the iPhone had dual displays. One for personal and one for business. There is another device that has it, I think it's a Nokia.



    Unnecessarily complex.
  • Reply 70 of 94
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    Unnecessarily complex.



    Let me rephrase that. Dual UI interfaces, like setting up Spaces for a business setup and a personal setup. Not physical displays. The one I saw could be very useful.



    You pic of that laser keyboard is cool, but some people just want a physical keyboard. I type much faster on my iPhone than I ever did on the phone keyboards, but I have to be looking at it when I do it, which makes me miss the days of replying without looking.
  • Reply 71 of 94
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    But why go with an exclusive carrier at all with all those other all-GSM/WCDMA countries. Apple could have just set up a retail price and let the carriers duke it out. But they didn't. The took a successful and established (albeit new) product and inked exclusivity contracts that gave access to 1/5 to a 1/3 of the countries current subscriber-base when they could have opened up the device to the entire country.



    I understand that people want x-device with x-carrier, but I don't understand why there is a refusal to look at Apple's business model and understand that what is wanted is not going to happen if a more obvious solution along that path has not yet occurred. As Sylar would say, it's illogical.



    As you absolutely correctly stated, it was necessary when iPhone made its first steps.

    Now it's just a tradition and reusing successful business model. It worked before and it still does.

    I believe, it would change after SFR and Bouygues have got the right to sell iPhones (however, it's no more hurricane, frankly, they don't know now, what exactly to do with that iPhone )
  • Reply 72 of 94
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Let me rephrase that. Dual UI interfaces, like setting up Spaces for a business setup and a personal setup. Not physical displays. The one I saw could be very useful.



    The farthest I agree to go with this is to make it configurable in iTunes (or whatever would be future syncing software). And I'd prefer factory configuration of these options.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    You pic of that laser keyboard is cool, but some people just want a physical keyboard. I type much faster on my iPhone than I ever did on the phone keyboards, but I have to be looking at it when I do it, which makes me miss the days of replying without looking.



    Just make cool BT hardware keyboard, tether it to iPhone. NP.
  • Reply 73 of 94
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    As you absolutely correctly stated, it was necessary when iPhone made its first steps.

    Now it's just a tradition and reusing successful business model. It worked before and it still does.



    I've never thought of Steve Jobs doing anything for tradition sake. It's all about the money, but for Apple it's all about the money in the future. Their plans have shown to be thought out far ahead of other companies who just look at the upcoming quarter, which is why many will play catch up when something obvious overtakes them.



    So why continue with the carrier exclusivity after two years when the device already proved itself and would sold a considerably higher number of units to all those non-US countries that use the exact GSM/WCDMA radios found in the iPhone? Why the talks with various Chinese carriers now? Why do other cellphone makers offer exclusivity with carriers if it's just about unit sales?



    If it serves Apple no purpose then any future countries added to the list will not have any carrier exclusivity. But it does serve Apple's purpose and helps them grow the brand the way they want it to grow. They get control over the App Store and over the technical support and over the carriers (to an extent). This is invaluable to Apple and they are obviously looking at this from more than the shortsided position of selling as many units as possible in as little time as possible.
  • Reply 74 of 94
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    The farthest I agree to go with this is to make it configurable in iTunes (or whatever would be future syncing software). And I'd prefer factory configuration of these options.



    iTunes already needs an iPhone homescreen configuration page. Using the device to move around 9 pages of apps is not user friendly.



    Quote:

    Just make cool BT hardware keyboard, tether it to iPhone. NP.



    That is an option that I think will come fairly shortly after the v3.0 software is released now that 30-pin connector and BT APIs are available to developers.
  • Reply 75 of 94
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I've never thought of Steve Jobs doing anything for tradition sake. It's all about the money, but for Apple it's all about the money in the future. Their plans have shown to be thought out far ahead of other companies who just look at the upcoming quarter, which is why many will play catch up when something obvious overtakes them.



    Oh, I don't agree. I, on the contrary, view SJ as a huge traditionalist. Which saved many times Apple's design philosophy. (iPhone Cut-n-Paste is rather exceptional case, no. ) And we all should admit, this particular iPhone related custom still pays. There's no loss, there's thus not much to worry about.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    So why continue with the carrier exclusivity after two years when the device already proved itself and would sold a considerably higher number of units to all those non-US countries that use the exact GSM/WCDMA radios found in the iPhone? Why the talks with various Chinese carriers now? Why do other cellphone makers offer exclusivity with carriers if it's just about unit sales?



    If it serves Apple no purpose then any future countries added to the list will not have any carrier exclusivity. But it does serve Apple's purpose and helps them grow the brand the way they want it to grow. They get control over the App Store and over the technical support and over the carriers (to an extent). This is invaluable to Apple and they are obviously looking at this from more than the shortsided position of selling as many units as possible in as little time as possible.



    Khm... This theory is not proved, you know. The experiment was conducted in France. In practice it turned out to become customer dissatisfaction in carriers (not in iPhone). And it is the only remarkable result of all that. This is the fact. The game is not too much worth playing (yet, Apple counts new earnings, sure).
  • Reply 76 of 94
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    iTunes already needs an iPhone homescreen configuration page. Using the device to move around 9 pages of apps is not user friendly.



    I'd say sidebars of many applications need the group "Devices", where iPhone may appear and be peacefully synced. It's odd to sync calendar entries and email accounts via iTunes.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    That is an option that I think will come fairly shortly after the v3.0 software is released now that 30-pin connector and BT APIs are available to developers.



    Possibly so.
  • Reply 77 of 94
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,295member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    Just make cool BT hardware keyboard, tether it to iPhone. NP.



    How about a blue tooth one?
  • Reply 78 of 94
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by paxman View Post


    How about a blue tooth one?



    positively.
  • Reply 79 of 94
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    Khm... This theory is not proved, you know. The experiment was conducted in France. In practice it turned out to become customer dissatisfaction in carriers (not in iPhone). And it is the only remarkable result of all that. This is the fact. The game is not too much worth playing (yet, Apple counts new earnings, sure).



    There is no theory, there is only proof. Apple has not chosen to sell subsidized iPhones to all major carriers in any country. You mention France, which it appears you are from, as an experiment. There was no French experiment, there were only laws governing the ways companies can do business. Apple sells the subsidized iPhone to Orange and the unlocked, unsubsidized iPhone to everyone else for an outrageous price. French laws, as I'm sure you know, have restricted locking to no more than 6 months since 1998.



    Hop over to Germany. Where Vodafone sought an injunction to not allow T-Mobile to be the only provider of the iPhone. Apple sold the handset for $1,481 USD to discourage sales (remember this was EDGE only at the time). That doesn't sound like an experiment, but a way of circumventing the law while still being within the letter of the law. German iPhones get unlocked after 2 years.





    I still gotten a viable answer as to why Apple would continue to make carrier lock-ins if their only focus was to sell as many units as possible in the shortest amount of time.
  • Reply 80 of 94
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    There is no theory, there is only proof. Apple has not chosen to sell subsidized iPhones to all major carriers in any country. You mention France, which it appears you are from, as an experiment. There was no French experiment, there were only laws governing the ways companies can do business. Apple sells the subsidized iPhone to Orange and the unlocked, unsubsidized iPhone to everyone else for an outrageous price. French laws, as I'm sure you know, have restricted locking to no more than 6 months since 1998.



    Hop over to Germany. Where Vodafone sought an injunction to not allow T-Mobile to be the only provider of the iPhone. Apple sold the handset for $1,481 USD to discourage sales (remember this was EDGE only at the time). That doesn't sound like an experiment, but a way of circumventing the law while still being within the letter of the law. German iPhones get unlocked after 2 years.



    Yes, and this is because I'm speaking about how it happens in France. Can not say how it was in Germany. The prices in France are approximately the same at any of 3 iPhone sellers. The price of iPhone itself is one and the same at Orange and at SFR.

    It was not all about money. While Orange were careful, precise and correct about any least comma in contracts and stood on the base of their solid network, SFR didn't care much to make any efforts after their "victory" before eyes of that Commission. They were instantly caught on false advertising. This is not the first time they were, but what may have been tolerated with cheap phones, can not be so with iPhone, which is in the focus of everyone's attention.

    Apple have little to do with their business habits... Apple have nothing to do either with the fact Bouygues have 3G coverage merely in their dreams.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I still gotten a viable answer as to why Apple would continue to make carrier lock-ins if their only focus was to sell as many units as possible in the shortest amount of time.



    Khm... Don't you remember how sales suffered in the beginning?
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