Apple's Snow Leopard rumored to be Gold Master

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  • ghostface147ghostface147 Posts: 1,629member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    It was as scalable, maybe more, but there was no interest.





    Yes a desktop version was scalable, but got very hot to the point where Apple introduced liquid cooling on the PowerMacs. Also, the G5 never could get cool enough to stick in a laptop. Oh well, we have to work with what's given us. SL FTW......(torrented of course)
  • melgrossmelgross Posts: 28,596member, moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post


    Yes a desktop version was scalable, but got very hot to the point where Apple introduced liquid cooling on the PowerMacs. Also, the G5 never could get cool enough to stick in a laptop. Oh well, we have to work with what's given us. SL FTW......(torrented of course)



    Intels chips were even hotter in the end with the Prescott. As the chips get scaled down with new process technology, they got cooler.



    I would imagine that a 45nm G6 or G7 would have been pretty cool (in more ways than one).
  • woosterwooster Posts: 27member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post


    Yeah hopefully, but not really. They can make their money elsewhere.



    What kind of mentality is this? Do you like to work for free? Why should you not pay for something a lot of people have spent a lot of money and resources to create?
  • camroidv27camroidv27 Posts: 523member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iansilv View Post


    Wait- this is what I've got:

    GeForce 8600M GT:



    Chipset ModeltGeForce 8600M GT

    TypetDisplay

    BustPCIe

    PCIe Lane Widthtx1

    VRAM (Total)t128 MB

    VendortNVIDIA (0x10de)

    Device IDt0x0407

    Revision IDt0x00a1

    ROM Revisiont3175



    Will I get a 64-bit kernel?



    That is the description for your graphics card. I don't believe your graphics card has anything to do with running a 64bit kernel. I think the other poster was talking about the current 9400 chipsets (which are the main hub for all memory, hard drives, usb ports, etc.) and those chipsets have the graphics card (GPU) built into them.



    Check with the other poster, but your machine should be new enough to at least run 64 bit programs.
  • logisticaldronlogisticaldron Posts: 833member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post


    Maybe I'm just dumb or something, but as long as your motherboard supports the 64-bit features of your CPU (and the CPU is 64-bit), it should be able to run a 64-bit operating system.



    Oh, it?s capable of running a 64-bit kernel, but Apple didn?t write the 64-bit kernel to support all their 64-bit CPUs. Don?t ask me why, I don?t know, but that is how it has been done in every beta so far.
  • ryanplusplusryanplusplus Posts: 4member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post


    Oh, it?s capable of running a 64-bit kernel, but Apple didn?t write the 64-bit kernel to support all their 64-bit CPUs. Don?t ask me why, I don?t know, but that is how it has been done in every beta so far.



    Where can I find more information about which Macs will be able to run the 64-bit kernel?
  • iansilviansilv Posts: 283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post


    Oh, it?s capable of running a 64-bit kernel, but Apple didn?t write the 64-bit kernel to support all their 64-bit CPUs. Don?t ask me why, I don?t know, but that is how it has been done in every beta so far.



    Could the beta, like, be restricting the 64-bit-ness of snow leopard?
  • logisticaldronlogisticaldron Posts: 833member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post


    That is the description for your graphics card. I don't believe your graphics card has anything to do with running a 64bit kernel. I think the other poster was talking about the current 9400 chipsets (which are the main hub for all memory, hard drives, usb ports, etc.) and those chipsets have the graphics card (GPU) built into them.



    Check with the other poster, but your machine should be new enough to at least run 64 bit programs.



    Running 64-bit apps is possible, but that has nothing to do with running a 64-bit kernel. Apple did not do a blanket 64-bit kernel for all C2D CPUs. I?ll have to jump onto the developer site to get the release notes later.
  • jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,927member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post


    Yeah hopefully, but not really. They can make their money elsewhere.



    They can, but that doesn't mean ripping off software is justified.
  • iansilviansilv Posts: 283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post


    Running 64-bit apps is possible, but that has nothing to do with running a 64-bit kernel. Apple did not do a blanket 64-bit kernel for all C2D CPUs. I?ll have to jump onto the developer site to get the release notes later.



    Please do- I would love to finally get a straight answer on this. If they aren't going to do a 64bit kernel with my mbp then fine, I just want to know- I will be buying it anyway, but I am curious.
  • ltcommander.dataltcommander.data Posts: 327member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post


    The ability to run the 64-bit kernel is based on more than having a 64-bit CPU. MacBooks and MacBook Pros with only the Nvidia IGP will not have the 64-bit kernel option, and i don’t think older MBPs will get the option as well.



    And why would having only an nVidia IGP prevent you from running a 64-bit kernel? IGP only and MBPs with IGP and discrete graphics use the same 9400M chipset. They should all run fine. It's hard to believe that Apple would not be supporting 64-bit kernel on their currently selling 13.3" MacBook Pros among other models.



    And if I'm not mistaken, trying to run early Snow Leopard builds in 64-bit mode only worked on the original 667MHz 65nm Merom Core 2 Duo iMacs and MacBook Pros with the Napa platform because 64-bit drivers were written for them first. Which makes sense since they are a known, mature platform. The only Macs that shouldn't support the 64-bit kernel are the 32-bit Yonah Core 2 Duo Macs.



    What I'd like to know is what level of OpenGL support exists. Leopard was OpenGL 2.1. Presumably Snow Leopard will be at least OpenGL 3.0 since that introduced interoperability with OpenCL. Hopefully, OpenGL 3.2 support comes quickly since one of it's key features is that it's easier to port DirectX applications to OpenGL which can only be a good thing.



    Edit:

    http://news.worldofapple.com/archive...le-seed-notes/



    I guess the early Snow Leopard developer builds weren't supporting 64-bit kernel for the early 667MHz FSB Core 2 Duos. They started 64-bit support for early 2008 Mac Pros, MacBook Pros, and XServes. Basically 45nm Penryn and up, with Harpertown being a Penryn derivative. Of course, support could have expanded or contracted since then.
  • stonefreestonefree Posts: 242member
    Not all Core 2 Duos run Snow Leopard? That's pretty confusing. Why wouldn't they? Is Apple going to do chart like this
  • logisticaldronlogisticaldron Posts: 833member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ryanplusplus View Post


    Where can I find more information about which Macs will be able to run the 64-bit kernel?



    If your model name is that or higher you have 64-bit kernel. Unless they?ve added some more support there is no MacBookPro3.x or lower that will be 64-bit capable, and no MacBook that is 64-bit kernel capable. You can still run 64-bit apps just fine and these will running by default as they have no barring on the kernel.



  • cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stonefree View Post


    Not all Core 2 Duos run Snow Leopard? That's pretty confusing. Why wouldn't they? Is Apple going to do chart like this



    All intel macs can run Snow Leopard, the only question is if they can run the 64bit kernel or not. If they can't, they will run the 32 bit kernel, which is included in the install anyway.
  • camroidv27camroidv27 Posts: 523member
    I think some people (including myself) are getting all sorts of confused by the 64bit kernel versus 64bit OS vers 64bit Processor vers 64bit IGC and what computers will run what bits of 64bit.
  • logisticaldronlogisticaldron Posts: 833member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ltcommander.data View Post


    And why would having only an nVidia IGP prevent you from running a 64-bit kernel? IGP only and MBPs with IGP and discrete graphics use the same 9400M chipset. They should all run fine. It's hard to believe that Apple would not be supporting 64-bit kernel on their currently selling 13.3" MacBook Pros among other models.



    Seems like it wouldn?t be an issue and that Apple would want to get all their C2D-based Macs on 64-bit, but insofar as the last Beta it?s not supported with Mac notebooks only running the 9400M. This includes the cheap 15? MBP.
    System Software Overview:



    System VersiontMac OS X 10.6 (10A421a)

    Kernel VersiontDarwin 10.0.0

    Boot VolumetMacintosh HD

    Boot ModetNormal

    Computer Nametxxx

    User Nametxxx

    Secure Virtual MemorytEnabled

    64-bit Kernel and ExtensionstNo

    Time since boott1 day15:11
    Quote:

    What I'd like to know is what level of OpenGL support exists. Leopard was OpenGL 2.1. Presumably Snow Leopard will be at least OpenGL 3.0 since that introduced interoperability with OpenCL. Hopefully, OpenGL 3.2 support comes quickly since one of it's key features is that it's easier to port DirectX applications to OpenGL which can only be a good thing.



    Where can i find info on OpenGL versioning in OS X?





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stonefree View Post


    Not all Core 2 Duos run Snow Leopard? That's pretty confusing. Why wouldn't they? Is Apple going to do chart like this



    All Intel-based Macs will run Snow Leopard.
  • mazda 3smazda 3s Posts: 1,447member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post


    Oh, it?s capable of running a 64-bit kernel, but Apple didn?t write the 64-bit kernel to support all their 64-bit CPUs. Don?t ask me why, I don?t know, but that is how it has been done in every beta so far.



    That seems pretty dumb (not you, but Apple)
  • jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,927member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post


    The ability to run the 64-bit kernel is based on more than having a 64-bit CPU. MacBooks and MacBook Pros with only the Nvidia IGP will not have the 64-bit kernel option, and i don’t think older MBPs will get the option as well.



    That really doesn't make sense, because the IGP isn't the CPU. If Apple really is going to do that, then I'm a bit disappointed. Remember the Keynote slide showing the Apple computers that are 64 bit capable? It was the entire lineup except the mini, which only had a Core Duo chip at the time. There's no sense in promoting 64 bit capability in machine models that won't get a 64 bit kernel.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post


    Oh, it’s capable of running a 64-bit kernel, but Apple didn’t write the 64-bit kernel to support all their 64-bit CPUs. Don’t ask me why, I don’t know, but that is how it has been done in every beta so far.



    That doesn't make sense either because Apple doesn't use a big variety of CPUs. For example, the models with the nVidia IGP don't use different kind of CPU as the ones that used a discrete nVidia chip, it's just a different clock speed. Excepting the Air of course, I don't know about that one.
  • stonefreestonefree Posts: 242member
    Doesn't the two different kernels require separate drivers for both? That could get confusing with third parties. I thought the main difference between Leopard and Snow Leopard (as far as the OS architecture) was Leopard's 32 bit kernel since everything else is already 64 bit. I have a Penryn / Santa Rosa Macbook (4,1). Will it be fully 64 bit?
  • logisticaldronlogisticaldron Posts: 833member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    That really doesn't make sense, because the IGP isn't the CPU. If Apple really is going to do that, then I'm a bit disappointed. Remember the Keynote slide showing the Apple computers that are 64 bit capable? It was the entire lineup except the mini, which only had a Core Duo chip at the time. There's no sense in promoting 64 bit capability in machine models that won't get a 64 bit kernel.





    That doesn't make sense either because Apple doesn't use a big variety of CPUs. For example, the models with the nVidia IGP don't use different kind of CPU as the ones that used a discrete nVidia chip, it's just a different clock speed. Excepting the Air of course, I don't know about that one.



    Don?t kill the messenger. I am just reporting on what has been done so far. We are close to Snow Leopard going Golden Master, with DVDs made and packaged, yet no support for a 64-bit kernel in their most common machines.



    I understand if they made it 32-bit by default to keep driver issues to a minimum, but to not include it when they have done the legwork for their other machines running the same CPUs in most cases boggles my mind, too.
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