Apple's TuneKit iTunes LP format appears aimed at Apple TV

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  • Reply 21 of 59
    In the next year, expect to see an Apple TV become what the name really implies, a TV. Apple is going to finally complete the "Media Hub" idea with an LG supplied TV that has an Apple TV type of device built in. It will bring your iTunes and iPhoto content to the TV directly. No need for that expensive and beautiful hot plate (AppleTV) any longer. The tablet and iPhone/Touch will be the elegant remote with the full Apple user interface we would expect.



    The problem with the current Apple TV is that is is seen as another external device to hook up to our myriad of components in our home audio power outlet hungry system. To boot, it has a very un-Mac-like GUI. We will be able to ditch our DVD player, VCR (yes some still have them), current AppleTV and perhaps our amplifier. I am sure that there will be an option to hook up your old AppleTV to the TV to help grandfather the transition. But with successive updates they will become road kill. Just think of the shelf space, the "eco friendly" advertising due to all of the power cords done away with.



    Next, the car market. Apple needs to target the car entertainment system. How long are we going to have to struggle with making our iPhones and iPods connect to the car stereo?
  • Reply 22 of 59
    Quote:



    Personally, I hope they use this opportunity to do something similar to what they did to the iPod Touch this time around - give us a small update in features without a huge bump in capacity so that they can lower the price. I've put off getting into that game because I couldn't justify the cost of a new HDTV or an Apple TV. The HDTV seems like it'll happen in the near future, though, so a cheaper Apple TV would be very nice. While having the 160GB version at $100 less is great, it's probably still way more capacity than I would actually need. If Apple offered the 40GB version at $50-100 less, I'd be a very happy clam.



    Now we just have to hope our speculation on the loss of the 40GB version is true.
  • Reply 23 of 59
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by saarek View Post


    I just bought the new Muse cd from iTunes, I only got it from iTunes as it's the LP version, I always felt cheated by the price of downloads as I could buy the cd from a shop for the same price, however considering all of the extras in the LP version I feel that I have gotten a fair deal.



    I like the extras and feel it boosts the album, well done Apple and of course Muse.



    While I think the Apple LP idea is clever, its still a finger in the dike now that people have seen the advantage of single-song downloads. The caliber of 90+% of today's recording 'artists' does not justify whole-album downloads. The labels are selling homogenized 'product', hoping that the one hit from the album will sucker kids into buying 11 other garbage cuts.

    To those who ask why the big hub-bub about 'Beatles on iTunes', this is your answer. When you bought a Beatles album, you got at least 11 out of 12 great songs by real artists.

    The current musicians who can equal that are far and few between.

    </oldFartRant>



    correction... current 'signed acts' who can equal that. There's a ton of talent out there, but it doesn't fit the corporate play-list model.
  • Reply 24 of 59
    *



    Some random comments:



    The LP format is exciting to those of us who fondly remember holding the physical covers, looking at the pictures, lyrics, credits (Oh, that was Emmylou Harris backing up Willie), etc.



    I have a friend who is about to publish her first album:



    http://www.sheenamelwani.com



    Think of iTunes LP from her perspective:

    --all the songs are originals, she wrote the music, lyrics and performs them

    --there is a whole lot of background content that she wants/needs to get "out there"

    --there just isn't a way to do this with a traditional CD or DVD

    --The digital LP format is like manna from heaven



    What if a bunch of us could sit around the HD TV (AppleTV) and play/watch Sheena's debut album... better yet, each of us, with our iPhone, iPod Touch, iTablet (whatever), could individually peruse the LP content on our own device (and optionally show something we see to the others by displaying it on the large, communal HD TV). It would be like each one had his own copy of the Physical LP cover.



    I don't know if the current AppleTV has the heft to do this. I keep all my iTunes and iPhoto content on a separate Mac Mini (with 2 2TB external HDs). Everything is streamed to the AppleTV.





    It's been a while but the itlp bundle is quite similar to the DashCode dcproj bundle. So, I suspect that the "tool" that Apple provides (for artists) to create LPs is just a special template for DashCode.



    DashCode was/is used primarily to create single-purpose Widgets-- essentially web apps that run on the desktop or can be shared by putting them on a web server such as MobileMe.



    Most of the Widgets could be written entirely using "standard" HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. These were quite portable as they could run on any platform that supported the "standard". I haven't tried it, but conceptually this means that a simple Widget could run on Windows or Linux.



    Through advanced techniques, the developer could access the OS at the command line level. So, you could write a "Power Widget" that ran on the desktop but acted like a web server and data base server. Or maybe parse the iTunes XML file and serve content over the Internet.



    Obviously, if you wrote a Widget using the command line level, it would only run on OS X, on Macs. Apple could supply a low-level "missing-link" to allow our "Power Widget" to run on Windows or Linux



    If an LP is just a special Widget it can use the afore-mentioned "standard" HTML, CSS, and JavaScript to navigate the content, but it needs some mechanism to actually play the music and video.



    That mechanism appears to be iTunes/QuickTime. So, the LP can play on OS X or Windows computers.





    It is unclear, but the latest iTunes appears to have some sort of "server" capability built in.



    Could iTunes be the "missing link" that allows our "Power Widget" to serve content over WiFi and the Internet-- your own private "iTunes Server"?



    Could this "iTunes Server" capability be included in the current AppleTV or a heftier follow-on?



    Could you serve your iTunes content within the home (or enterprise) and simultaneously to consumers on the internet, and local or remote mobile WiFi and cell radio devices?





    This may sound (pun) a bit far fetched, but it isn't! The technology already exists and apps are available to do all the bits and pieces.





    It will take Apple to make it so it is easy, intuitive, and just works.



    *
  • Reply 25 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wally007 View Post


    how does one justify purchase of Apple TV and its incredible limitations ? I mean if you take a look at XBMC / PLEX ( especially PLEX ) and various plug-ins and incredible interface skins it just boggles my mind someone does not save up couple hundred dollars more and buys mac mini or finds used one on ebay for just a hair more than new appletv.



    You answered your own question.



    It costs more, you have to set it up, you have to add the plug-ins and configure those etc. If your into managing your computers all day long fine, but if you're just the average consumer you generally don't want the hassle.



    It's the same as Linux vs. Macintosh. One's cheaper, the other is hassle free. To each their own.
  • Reply 26 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spliff monkey View Post


    I think you're being tunnel visioned. Why would it be bad to offer more content for those that want it. The "whole benefit of digital music" isn't buying one song at a time. I can think of a million reasons why digital music is better, easier access, better categorizing, easier to travel with large libraries etc. etc. You couldn't be further off base and when the tablet makes it's debut you'll undoubtedly be the fist to say it'll flop as well. "Corporate Hobby" there's no such thing when you are talking about billions of $$$$'s. If it's labeled as a hobby expect it to grow and evolve rapidly. Vanish is another thing.



    I was about to say the same thing.



    I think a lot of people are also having tunnel vision here in that they are just thinking of iTunes LP as only some kind of replacement for albums. Of course it's that, but it's also a whole new multimedia container frontier sort of speak.



    Already, before most people have even bought one, there is a multimedia comic book in the store that you can buy in this format. If Apple comes out with the tablet and starts selling eBooks in earnest, you can bet that there will be very similar if not identical formats for those. Imagine buying a History text and it has multimedia elements and so forth, or a magazine.



    Anyone who remembers back to the dawn of the computing era should know that one of the first uses of computers in general was these kinds of packaged multimedia experiences. Half of the educational software titles in those days (and there were more educational titles than games in those days), were exactly this kind of thing.



    When the very first CD's came out, one of the first uses was multimedia "magazines" and most computer magazines of the day had a multimedia edition in a plastic sleeve pasted on the front cover. The industry has been trying to get this kind of delivery mechanism right for years and years and now we have the cloud for delivery and mobile devices for consumption it might actually happen.



    Imagine subscribing to whatever your favourite magazine is (that is if anyone reads magazines nowadays), on iTunes and receiving a package similar to this every month. This has so much potential it's scary IMO.
  • Reply 27 of 59
    From iTunes 9 system requirements:



    Quote:

    2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo or faster processor is required to play HD video, an iTunes LP, or iTunes Extras from the iTunes Store



    The current AppleTV hardware doesn't come close to this CPU spec, so I'm VERY skeptical that it's targeted to the AppleTV - at least as we know it now.
  • Reply 28 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by saarek View Post


    I just bought the new Muse cd from iTunes, I only got it from iTunes as it's the LP version, I always felt cheated by the price of downloads as I could buy the cd from a shop for the same price, however considering all of the extras in the LP version I feel that I have gotten a fair deal.



    I like the extras and feel it boosts the album, well done Apple and of course Muse.



    + for referring to Muse
  • Reply 29 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bazaarsoft View Post


    From iTunes 9 system requirements:







    The current AppleTV hardware doesn't come close to this CPU spec, so I'm VERY skeptical that it's targeted to the AppleTV - at least as we know it now.



    Who said this is aimed at the current Apple TV?
  • Reply 30 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


    I was about to say the same thing.



    I think a lot of people are also having tunnel vision here in that they are just thinking of iTunes LP as only some kind of replacement for albums. Of course it's that, but it's also a whole new multimedia container frontier sort of speak.



    Already, before most people have even bought one, there is a multimedia comic book in the store that you can buy in this format. If Apple comes out with the tablet and starts selling eBooks in earnest, you can bet that there will be very similar if not identical formats for those. Imagine buying a History text and it has multimedia elements and so forth, or a magazine.



    Anyone who remembers back to the dawn of the computing era should know that one of the first uses of computers in general was these kinds of packaged multimedia experiences. Half of the educational software titles in those days (and there were more educational titles than games in those days), were exactly this kind of thing.



    When the very first CD's came out, one of the first uses was multimedia "magazines" and most computer magazines of the day had a multimedia edition in a plastic sleeve pasted on the front cover. The industry has been trying to get this kind of delivery mechanism right for years and years and now we have the cloud for delivery and mobile devices for consumption it might actually happen.



    Imagine subscribing to whatever your favourite magazine is (that is if anyone reads magazines nowadays), on iTunes and receiving a package similar to this every month. This has so much potential it's scary IMO.



    ++



    Just consider the implications of an interactive LP package of content on your iPhone.



    You ar standing in a park, at the kids soccer game. It's halftime, so you want to catch that latest (artist of your choice) album... you tune in, explore, network with friends, rate the songs on the artist's site, research a backup artist... It's all there (some parts on the iPhone, others at home, and others on multiple web sites). It's all interlinked-- you don't need to multi-task, just multi-navigate "there and back, again".



    Oh, that "LP Album" isn't a music album at all-- its that course you are taking on "nursing", and all the interactive content and navigating are tailored to that subject.... ad nauseam
  • Reply 31 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spliff monkey View Post


    The apple T was designed to connect to a TV and the mac-mini wasn't. It's that simple. If you haven't used one then you should go check one out and then get back to me. To say it's "incredibly limited" would be ignoring the point of what it does; deliver media.



    I might ask what's the point of connecting an mac-mini up to your TV? Do you really want to surf the web or do work on your TV? Have you tried it? It looks terrible at 50" I can tell you that. I started out with a mac mni when there wasn't an apple TV and honestly it was a drag with screen rez/ line res, frequencies, colors etc etc. I was happy to switch.



    Compared to my media server/ apple TV rig it was very clumsy. An mac mini is overkill and gets in the way of simply delivering media with a clean easy to navigate GUI, without the extras you don't need.





    I did use AppletTV at friends house and by the time i was done showing him AEON skin demo on youtube he was ready to dump it.



    I have Mac mini that NEVER exits Full screen Plex on my Pasma in livng room. It took exactly 5 minutes to install Plex and 2 clicks on my remote to install plug-ins. Nothing to set up , just choosing which plug-in i want from the list and click and its there. Plays EVERY video file i throw at it (Newest model plays even 1080 high bit rate rips ).

    Movie library presentation cant even be compared to aTV.



    Oh and connecting MacMini to quality TV that has 1:1 pixel mapping is no more trouble than connecting aTV to TV.



    Still understand there are people who value ease of use and cheaper entry ticket but once someone ( like my friend , who has enough money and is not that crazy into computers ) experiences Plex/XBMC they wouldnt touch aTV with 10 foot pole.
  • Reply 32 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wally007 View Post


    I did use AppletTV at friends house and by the time i was done showing him AEON skin demo on youtube he was ready to dump it.



    I have Mac mini that NEVER exits Full screen Plex on my Pasma in livng room. It took exactly 5 minutes to install Plex and 2 clicks on my remote to install plug-ins. Nothing to set up , just choosing which plug-in i want from the list and click and its there. Plays EVERY video file i throw at it (Newest model plays even 1080 high bit rate rips ).

    Movie library presentation cant even be compared to aTV.



    Oh and connecting MacMini to quality TV that has 1:1 pixel mapping is no more trouble than connecting aTV to TV.



    Still understand there are people who value ease of use and cheaper entry ticket but once someone ( like my friend , who has enough money and is not that crazy into computers ) experiences Plex/XBMC they wouldnt touch aTV with 10 foot pole.



    I have both AppleTV and a Mac Mini connected to a HD TV. The Mini is mainly for Eye TV.



    I checked the Plex web site and it looks interesting...



    What do you use for a remote control?



    Is there an iPhone app equivalent the Remote app for AppleTV?
  • Reply 33 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post


    Who said this is aimed at the current Apple TV?



    Nobody - but if this were really targeted at AppleTV, then why would they announce it before offering an AppleTV that could play it? My argument is that it isn't targeted specifically at the AppleTV - it may make a nice addition to AppleTV functionality, but I don't see any conclusive evidence "that the content was created specifically for it" as the article states.
  • Reply 34 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by techno View Post


    We will be able to ditch our DVD player, VCR (yes some still have them),...



    Not only do some still have them, but, thanks to digital TV, their recording quality for routine recording is far better than ever before. And it will continue to be the best choice so long as DVRs carry the baggage of ongoing fees.
  • Reply 35 of 59
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Something I just thought about...



    This new LP stuff....



    Is it in any way... protected?



    What I mean is, could I make my OWN LP for the Albums I have and inject them into iTunes?



    Believe it or not 'fan art' is a HUGE thing with the HTPC crowd and the more detailed or interesting the better.



    XBMC for example has many different skins, well all of them support 'fan art' in some way shape or form... but some of the skins really get into it they even have 'clear arts' (images without a background) that can be used when you pause a TV show you have in your system.



    So..



    Pause an episode of Buffy and a little image of buffy gets superimposed on top of the paused picture in the lower right corner of the screen. Or the cast of CIS if you're watching CSI etc etc etc. Just a neat 'on thats cool' feature.



    Anyway... I could creative people (not me) trying to 'one up' each other designing their own LP covers. Yes this walks all over copyrights without question... but there are a lot of sites with tv and music 'fan arts' and they seem to be left alone for the most part.



    Well I was just curious if with the right knowledge you could roll your own LP?



    Anyone?



    Dave
  • Reply 36 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spliff monkey View Post


    How does the ability to mix songs change or have anything to do with Itunes LP? The songs are still individual songs and can still be burned as such to a mix CD. You're just buying the album in it's entirety. What are you talking about? and honestly who only buys 1 song always? Don't you ever want to appreciate the music as the artist intended or give the rest of the album more than 30 seconds worth of judgement. If not, then it's more evidence that the world is the way that it is.





    Statistically speaking, I think it highly probable that evidence will support that the world is the way that it is.
  • Reply 37 of 59
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    It would be nice to find out when the SDK will become available and if Apple intends to open the software up.



    Interestingly I see this as an excellent way to deliver other types of content beside fillers for Albums and Movies. Apparently Apple does to with the comic release. I'm wondering how secure the authors IP is and how selectively that IP security can be applied to the various files.



    It would be nice to see this blow flash and Silverlight out of the water.





    Dave
  • Reply 38 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bazaarsoft View Post


    From iTunes 9 system requirements:



    "2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo or faster processor is required to play HD video, an iTunes LP, or iTunes Extras from the iTunes Store"



    The current AppleTV hardware doesn't come close to this CPU spec, so I'm VERY skeptical that it's targeted to the AppleTV - at least as we know it now.



    No, that's the requirements for iTunes 9. The existing Apple TV can already play HD video, and there is no extra demands placed on it to execute a few basic JavaScripts via WebKit. These are not high powered presentations, they are simple HDTV-sized interactive but content packages of mostly static material.



    Why iTunes requires a 2GHz Core2 Duo to run iTunes 9 is another issue. Seems excessive.
  • Reply 39 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bazaarsoft View Post


    Nobody - but if this were really targeted at AppleTV, then why would they announce it before offering an AppleTV that could play it? My argument is that it isn't targeted specifically at the AppleTV - it may make a nice addition to AppleTV functionality, but I don't see any conclusive evidence "that the content was created specifically for it" as the article states.



    You do realize that working with html and JavaScript doesn't hog those resources, but encoding HD video does, those requirements are for general purpose processors. With dedicated hardware encoder, appleTV could get by with much less. As Andrew said AppleTV can already encode HD, just not 1080p yet, but hardware to make it happen is already in use in new laptops. The Itunes LP is apparently standard HTML, so I cant see why it couldn't point to a HTTPVideo stream. The HTTP stream can easily scale for older AppleTV. And as it happens, this technology is also already in use by Apple. See, the pieces do already fit!
  • Reply 40 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    ...So hopefully any major new upgrade in the works is software only and my trusty old first generation ATV won't be obsoleted any time soon....



    It's interesting this story breaks the same day as news that for products offering free software updates (iPhone, ATV) apple may start booking revenue as sales occur, and no longer defer those revenues, due to changes in accounting guidelines. Both stories deal with products that offer free software updates. It'll be interesting to see what unfolds in the near future. Sounds like something's up.



    QUOTE]...I suspect we will shortly have an SJ announcement of a lot more features and services too with updates to ATV and the inevitable tablet not far behind (or possibly it will all come at the same time).[/QUOTE]



    If apple were about to introduce another product (tablet?) which, like iPhone and ATV, would require deferring revenue, and if the rules requiring that were about to change, might not Apple delay such a product (ie, not announce it at the iPod special event last week) and choose instead to wait so that the initial burst of sales would be booked under the new accounting rules? I can't imagine a huge corporation would ignore the implications... (but it's also possible the rules change would not be dependent upon the put-into-service date: maybe deferred revs for all such products would simply be added at once, upon the event of the rules change).



    --Enigma: I'm both a big ATV fan AND very disappointed in the implementation of that product so far.
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