Apple reinventing file access, wireless sharing for iPad

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  • pazimzadehpazimzadeh Posts: 55member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by success View Post


    That's an Apple application file so it will have system wide recognition.



    That could be true but then that sucks because it means that apps won't be able to use files from other, non-Apple apps. Right now that's the main difference I see between the iPad (and iPhone) and an actual computer, and I don't like it.
  • thartistthartist Posts: 30member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Eye Forget View Post


    Yes, that is precisely what they are doing. Just look at iPhoto or iTunes as an example. Hardly any 3rd party photo apps can access iPhoto's library. By the time those apps became available (years for iPhoto) people were essentially locked in as they are not going to reconstruct their albums and slideshows. The same with iTunes.



    And the comments regarding commingled file types in a folder are an issue. As a couch potato's dream, perhaps its ok. As a trend it will quite an adjustment for people. Metadata is hardly the answer. Who wants to mess with yet more labels? That's what files and a Finder that can sort are all about.



    Its all about locking you in.



    http://www.timharrisblog.com/?p=259
  • takeotakeo Posts: 407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thartist View Post


    Why is Apple giving me a reason to move over to the upcoming slate or a netbook running Linux? WHY! What's next Apple? Are you going to tell me that I have to put ice cream in a cone instead of a cup?



    OMG... relax. Change the frequency. LOL :P Do you really think OS X is going to go away anytime soon? No one is forcing you to use an iPad. I'm sure that Pros will continue to use a full blown OS for decades to come.
  • thartistthartist Posts: 30member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I think that's a bit harsh. I also have reason to believe that things will be more sophisticated than what some people think it will be.



    This is just the first iteration. This summer we'll see a major OS upgrade with 4. Don't forget that this is just a point update from 3.1 to get it running on the iPad. It's very unlikely that Apple isn't adding a good deal of work to this OS.



    I've a suspicion that a fair amount of the complaints here will be addressed by that. There are also things that we're finding out about this now that the presentation is over. For example, this will print to networked printers.



    There are also other things we won't know until these get into the hands of reviewers in a few weeks, such as;



    Will the photo input accessory kit with its USB 2 adapter and SD card adapter allow storage BACK to them, or just FROM them?



    What about the 30 pin connector coming out of the docks?



    A lot of interesting stuff to find out. I wouldn't get worked up about it yet.



    Apple has stolen from Sony's playbook.
  • thartistthartist Posts: 30member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Takeo View Post


    OMG... relax. Change the frequency. LOL :P Do you really think OS X is going to go away anytime soon? No one is forcing you to use an iPad. I'm sure that Pros will continue to use a full blown OS for decades to come.



    http://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/11...ertising-pate/
  • hardcashehardcashe Posts: 26member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by imacFP View Post


    Yes if already does on the iPhone. That's why it is important to sync and backup. I suspect you won't be able to delete iWork etc off your iPad



    It does not come with the iPad so like the iPhone I am sure you can delete it.
  • melgrossmelgross Posts: 28,568member, moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pazimzadeh View Post


    Tap it...where? You mean to click Home and open Pages, or to click some link within Mail?



    Tap the indicated file.
  • curtisemaylecurtisemayle Posts: 377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Eye Forget View Post


    ... Hardly any 3rd party photo apps can access iPhoto's library. ...



    Its all about locking you in.



    I'm unsure what you mean by hardly any, but I regularly use about a dozen readily available 3rd party digital editing and manipulation applications that utilize the iPhoto library without restrictions.
  • pazimzadehpazimzadeh Posts: 55member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Tap the indicated file.



    Well, what do I do if I want to open it with another app than Pages then? I guess you could tap and hold on the file and have an "Open with..." menu, as Takeo said.
  • thartistthartist Posts: 30member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CurtisEMayle View Post


    I'm unsure what you mean by hardly any, but I regularly use about a dozen readily available 3rd party digital editing and manipulation applications that utilize the iPhoto library without restrictions.



    The actual library, not a single photo file!
  • justreelfilmsjustreelfilms Posts: 96member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pazimzadeh View Post


    Ok that's fine, but I doubt that there will be a button in iPad Mail that will say "open with 'Documents-to-go (current iPhone app)' or 'XXX made up PDF editor' or 'YYY made up photo editor' or 'ZZZ other made up App store app.' There will probably only be an option to open with Apple's own apps, which is not a great thing.



    I have access to iPhone Developer documentation and here is an except:





    "Document Support

    An application can now register the file types it supports with the system and receive notifications when a file of the given type needs to be opened. It does this by including the CFBundleDocumentTypes key in its Info.plist file. An application that registers one or more file types may also be expected to open files of those types at some point later. It does this by implementing the application:didFinishLaunchingWithOptions: method in its application delegate and look for a file in the UIApplicationLaunchOptionsURLKey key of the provided dictionary.



    Complimenting the ability to open files of known types is the addition of the UIDocumentInteractionController class in the UIKit framework. This class provides a user-based interaction model for managing files that your application does not know how to open. The document interaction controller provides options for previewing the contents of a file in place or opening it in another application. Document interaction controllers are particularly useful for email applications or applications that may download files from the network."
  • gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by themeperks View Post


    This works well for a small number of documents, as on the iPhone, but it becomes a problem when working on, say , a project, where it might be desirable to keep all the different document types for the project grouped together. With a conventional file structure it's easy, when the project is done, to archive all the related documents and remove them.



    People, stop thinking desktop and big projects.

    That's NOT what this thing is for.

    The sooner folks get out of that mindset, the sooner they'll get what's going to make this thing such a paradigm shift.
  • thartistthartist Posts: 30member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pazimzadeh View Post


    Well, what do I do if I want to open it with another app than Pages then? I guess you could tap and hold on the file and have an "Open with..." menu, as Takeo said.



    Open with...what ? You are already in the application which launched the dialog box. I can guarantee you other third party apps can't see each other on the device.
  • takeotakeo Posts: 407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thartist View Post


    But the document IS sandboxed if you can only open it up in the app environment and not save it somewhere on the filesystem for storage purposes. What if I want to email the file? How will mail attach a document to be sent? Or how do I upload a file through Safari?



    Well in iPhoto at least, you just select the file you want to email and click "Email". Do you really think Apple hasn't thought about this stuff? It's what they do.



    As for freedom and choice and all of that... there is something called the paradox of choice. The idea is that the MORE choices you have... the LESS free you actually are... because you expend way too much energy trying to understand and sort out all of your millions of choices.



    Don't get me wrong... I think geeks and pros will probably always need a full blown OS with a file system and I'm sure that as long as we have that need... such a system WILL exist. But for the average computer idiot... this model is actually a lot more user friendly.
  • melgrossmelgross Posts: 28,568member, moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thartist View Post


    Apple has stolen from Sony's playbook.



    I don't think so at all.



    First of all, sandboxing apps is something that security experts have been advising OS providers to do for decades.



    Secondly, you didn't really READ my post. If you did, you would see that I don't agree with what you're saying here.



    Also, for the third time this thread I'll say that this is just 3.2, not 4.0.



    No current computer OS today bares more than a faint resemblance to the early Os's that they began as. This will evolve as well, and much faster than the current desktop versions are. If Apple keeps up with a once a year pace, it won't be too long before we see major enhancments that will take care of most, if not all of your concerns.
  • goochergoocher Posts: 92member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Eye Forget View Post


    Its all about locking you in.



    No, it's about making the average person's life simpler. And who knows? Perhaps there will eventually be a Finder-like app that allows global navigation into each app's files, much like the Wi-Fi sharing they explained that will take place from iPad to Mac. This is just the beginning.
  • melgrossmelgross Posts: 28,568member, moderator
    Quote:



    Do you believe every blog you read just because they agree with you?
  • thartistthartist Posts: 30member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JustReelFilms View Post


    I have access to iPhone Developer documentation and here is an except:





    "Document Support

    An application can now register the file types it supports with the system and receive notifications when a file of the given type needs to be opened. It does this by including the CFBundleDocumentTypes key in its Info.plist file. An application that registers one or more file types may also be expected to open files of those types at some point later. It does this by implementing the application:didFinishLaunchingWithOptions: method in its application delegate and look for a file in the UIApplicationLaunchOptionsURLKey key of the provided dictionary.



    Complimenting the ability to open files of known types is the addition of the UIDocumentInteractionController class in the UIKit framework. This class provides a user-based interaction model for managing files that your application does not know how to open. The document interaction controller provides options for previewing the contents of a file in place or opening it in another application. Document interaction controllers are particularly useful for email applications or applications that may download files from the network."



    Fair enough. What about saving files?
  • thartistthartist Posts: 30member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Do you believe every blog you read just because they agree with you?



    Of course I do. I'm in marketing.
  • justreelfilmsjustreelfilms Posts: 96member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pazimzadeh View Post


    So if I receive a word/pages document in the Mail app how do I open it in Pages on iPad? Will the Pages app not see the file because it's in the Mail filesystem, and not the iWork one?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pazimzadeh View Post


    That could be true but then that sucks because it means that apps won't be able to use files from other, non-Apple apps. Right now that's the main difference I see between the iPad (and iPhone) and an actual computer, and I don't like it.





    From iPhone OS 3.2 Documentation:



    "Formalized Support for Handling Documents and Files

    To support the ability to create productivity applications, iPhone OS 3.2 includes several new features aimed at support the creation and handling of documents and files:



    Applications can now register themselves as being able to open specific types of files. This support allows applications that do need to work with files (such as email programs) the ability to pass those files to other applications.

    The UIKit framework now provides the UIDocumentInteractionController class for interacting with files of unknown types. You can use this class to preview files, copy their contents to the pasteboard, or pass them to another application for opening.

    Applications with the UIFileSharingEnabled key in their Info.plist file can share files with the user’s desktop computer. A connected iPad device shows up on the user’s desktop and contains subdirectories for all applications that share files. The user can transfer files in and out of this directory.

    Of course, it is important to remember that although you can manipulate files in your iPad applications, files should never be a focal part of your application. There are no open and save panels in iPhone OS for a very good reason. The save panel in particular implies that it is the user’s responsibility to save all data, but this is not the model that iPhone applications should ever use. Instead, applications should save data incrementally to prevent the loss of that data when the application quits or is interrupted by the system. To do this, your application must take responsibility for managing the creation and saving the user’s content at appropriate times.



    Of course, sometimes interacting with files is necessary. If your application creates files that can be exchanged with a desktop computer, you might need to write files to your application’s file-sharing directory. In this case, always be mindful that the user can add or remove files from that directory. Applications should look for new files in this directory and present them to the user automatically. If the user puts a file in the directory whose type your application does not recognize, you can use a UIDocumentInteractionController object to manage the file-related interactions for you as appropriate."
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