If one is comparing laptops, these are the three most important things.
Anybody making an argument for a Dell or whatever other laptop, over an Mac portable, must account for these three elements. If not; you're just a laptop "poser".
It's a bummer the 13 inch MacBook Pro takes no advantage of the Arrandale features with its Core 2 Duo design. Either Apple was trying to make sure its entry level professional model could still sneak in under $1200, or it perhaps thought that using the Core i3 or i5 might result in constrained supplies for its popular entry level model due to the newness of the Arrandale components.
Pay attention, Daniel. Ars documented the fact that there isn't room enough in the 13" MBP to add the Arrandale hardware without relying on the sucktastic Intel HD graphics. For the marginal (nominal, really) improvement of an i3 you'd lose the significantly faster 320M graphics (resulting in a slower overall laptop). Or they would have to build a bigger case.
FWIW, I think there is plenty of margin in the 13" MBPs; I doubt the $1200 pricepoint would be in jeopardy if they went the the i3 or added discrete graphics...
I wonder what happens when the 13" MBP moves to Arrandale. They can't stay with C2Ds forever and Intel's GMA just can't do the job.
My wish is that they remove the ODD. I don't see any other way around it at this time. They can't go with Intel HD and no dGPU, but there is no room for a dGPU, and I don't they can do another do another C2D speed bump for more than more round, but I don't think they'll do that with Sandy Bridge offering such excellent power savings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso
If one is comparing laptops, these are the three most important things.
Anybody making an argument for a Dell or whatever other laptop, over an Mac portable, must account for these three elements. If not; you're just a laptop "poser".
Weight
Battery life
Build quality
It's always a big clunky Dell or HP to a MBP. It's never that same, big clunky Dell or HP to the premium Dell or HP offerings that best match a MBP.
I compared the Dell XPS 16 with the i7 15" MBP to see what might justify the $900 price difference (I used the Norwegian Dell and Apple stores online for price comparisons and converted it to USD).
The Dell has a slightly better screen, or rather, a higher resolution screen. It also has faster RAM. It also has twice as much graphics RAM (1GB).
However... The MBP's CPU is almost 1GHz faster. The MBP also has much longer battery life and the stronger unibody build. The MBP also has small things like the multi-touch trackpad going for it.
So as far as value for money goes, it's almost a tie - the MBP being only very slightly more expensive. And this is absulutely worth it in my book, because of the much better design and OS X.
Here's Intel's price list if you want to compare the cost differences between the CPU models.
I compared the Dell XPS 16 with the i7 15" MBP to see what might justify the $900 price difference (I used the Norwegian Dell and Apple stores online for price comparisons and converted it to USD).
The Dell has a slightly better screen, or rather, a higher resolution screen. It also has faster RAM. It also has twice as much graphics RAM (1GB).
However... The MBP's CPU is almost 1GHz faster. The MBP also has much longer battery life and the stronger unibody build. The MBP also has small things like the multi-touch trackpad going for it.
So as far as value for money goes, it's almost a tie - the MBP being only very slightly more expensive. And this is absulutely worth it in my book, because of the much better design and OS X.
The difference is that you're comparing two systems that are not equal in any way. For example, state that the Dell has a better screen, but then indicate that its resolution is better. The fact is that while the resolution is (marginally) higher, the quality of the screen is dramatically worse on the Dell. Compare the screens side by side. Since I spend a lot of tie looking at a laptop screen, that's important.
Then the other factors you cited - like 3 times the battery life, faster CPU, and better quality case (again, important for a laptop). Then consider things like customer satisfaction, reliability and support. Apple is always at or near the top and Dell is at the bottom.
Your comparison is like saying a Chevy Malibu sedan is a better car than a Ferrari because the Chevy seats more passengers and has more windows to roll down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
My wish is that they remove the ODD.
I don't think very many people would be happy with that. For the vast majority of users, the benefit of an i3 in the 13" would be marginal compared to the loss of functionality if the ODD were removed.
If one is comparing laptops, these are the three most important things.
Anybody making an argument for a Dell or whatever other laptop, over an Mac portable, must account for these three elements. If not; you're just a laptop "poser".
Hello can somebody tell me how can I achieve the photo effect used in last page of this article? Where appears 3 photos...this effect is used most of time by apple too...
I wonder what happens when the 13" MBP moves to Arrandale. They can't stay with C2Ds forever and Intel's GMA just can't do the job.
I think Apple will try to convince Intel to let Nvidia make chipsets for the Core i series of microprocessors. I see Apple's use of Intel HD integrated graphics as a temporary solution. Apple's discussions with AMD is a way to signal to Intel that Apple is not happy with the current Intel/Nvidia licensing situation.
The difference is that you're comparing two systems that are not equal in any way. For example, state that the Dell has a better screen, but then indicate that its resolution is better. The fact is that while the resolution is (marginally) higher, the quality of the screen is dramatically worse on the Dell. Compare the screens side by side. Since I spend a lot of tie looking at a laptop screen, that's important.
Then the other factors you cited - like 3 times the battery life, faster CPU, and better quality case (again, important for a laptop). Then consider things like customer satisfaction, reliability and support. Apple is always at or near the top and Dell is at the bottom.
Your comparison is like saying a Chevy Malibu sedan is a better car than a Ferrari because the Chevy seats more passengers and has more windows to roll down.
I agree whole-heartedly. I was just trying to point out some of the major differences between the two to those who compared the new MBP to the Dell XPS 16 above my initial comment. What I said about the screen is basically what you said. I was just writing as I was thinking and didn't bother to go back and edit, so I said "better, or rather, higher resolution"
I couldn't really say anything about the customer service thing as I don't have any experience with either manufacturers in that regard, and I didn't feel like trying to search for any documentation as to which might have a better track record in this area.
I'm a huge Apple fan, and can't see myself switching to anything else at least in the next 10 years.
The MacBook Pros gain an stronger edge in both processing and graphics performance over the entry level white MacBook and compact MacBook Air, thanks largely to the NVIDIA GeForce 320M in the 13 inch MacBook Pro and the NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M in the 15 and 17 inch models.
While the MacBook Pro's CPUs and GPUs have been rejiggered, their unibody contraction and other features are largely unchanged: rigid aluminum cases with strong edges; good keyboard feel with backlit typing; a big, glass trackpad that supports gestures and secondary clicks; all the same ports as the previous models; and the same high quality displays with wide viewing angles and a glossy screen.
As with the previous generation of MacBook Pros (review), the 17 inch model uniquely features three USB ports (rather than two on the 15 inch model) and its ExpressCard/34 slot (rather than just an SD Card slot on other MacBook models.) If you want an SD Card slot reader, you can get one for the 17" model's ExpressCard slot for about $20. The card slot comes in handy if you want to use 3G WWAN card or have some specialized need for an interface like eSATA or additional Firewire ports, although Apple's says its surveys show that only 10% of users ever actually use the ExpressCard slot. If you're in that minority of users who need it, the 17 inch model is the only way to get it on a MacBook.
Who proof reads these reviews?
The above should read as follows :-
The MacBook Pros gain a stronger edge in both processing and graphics performance over the entry level white MacBook and compact MacBook Air, thanks largely to the NVIDIA GeForce 320M in the 13 inch MacBook Pro and the NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M in the 15 and 17 inch models.
While the MacBook Pro's CPUs and GPUs have been rejiggered, their unibody construction and other features are largely unchanged: rigid aluminum cases with strong edges; good keyboard feel with backlit typing; a big, glass trackpad that supports gestures and secondary clicks; all the same ports as the previous models; and the same high quality displays with wide viewing angles and a glossy screen.
As with the previous generation of MacBook Pros (review), the 17 inch model uniquely features three USB ports (rather than two on the 15 inch model) and its ExpressCard/34 slot (rather than just an SD Card slot on other MacBook models.) If you want an SD Card slot reader, you can get one for the 17" model's ExpressCard slot for about $20. The card slot comes in handy if you want to use 3G WWAN card or have some specialized need for an interface like eSATA or additional Firewire ports, although Apple says its surveys show that only 10% of users ever actually use the ExpressCard slot. If you're in that minority of users who need it, the 17 inch model is the only way to get it on a MacBook.
But the one "Con" is that it runs Windows, not OSX...
Windows 7 is ok. I think the major "con" for PC notebook is a lack of multi-touch pad. That's alone worth a lot more than 4 cores vs 2 cores or Blu-Ray drive or...
I have to agree with this. I had to purchase a new laptop this month, and a similarly equipped Dell Studio 16 with i7 and a better screen was $1000 less than the macbook....I was really disappointed. I couldn't justify that price difference.
I bought the a new 17" MacBook and I'm less than impressed with the new graphics switching. Many other are having the same problem. Unless Apple does something I can definitely see a lawsuit coming on due to deceptive advertising of battery life. I've never gotten above 3-4 hours at best even just doing casual browsing.
There are MANY small, tiny programs that seem to switch to use the discreet graphics. Its just about impossible to use any website without it switching on as well (even gmail). Small menubar programs seem to trigger discreet graphics. There is NO current way to force the laptop to use integrated graphics, you can only choose to force discreet graphics.
I bought the a new 17" MacBook and I'm less than impressed with the new graphics switching. Many other are having the same problem. Unless Apple does something I can definitely see a lawsuit coming on due to deceptive advertising of battery life. I've never gotten above 3-4 hours at best even just doing casual browsing.
There are MANY small, tiny programs that seem to switch to use the discreet graphics. Its just about impossible to use any website without it switching on as well (even gmail). Small menubar programs seem to trigger discreet graphics. There is NO current way to force the laptop to use integrated graphics, you can only choose to force discreet graphics.
It's quite a shame. Apple's solution has a great benefit over Nvidia's Optimus as it doesn't have the limited and unintelligent requirement of making a decision based on what processes are running. It should be able to monitor the load independent of what apps are open. Hopefully they get that worked out.
I spent about an hour in and Apple Store on two occasions ? before and after the graphics update ? doing tests and looking for hidden switch to disable the dGPU completely in favour of the IGP for best power savings, at least when the battery in use. Nothing! With Apple as obsessed with power and duration per charge (as they should be) you'd think this would have the default feature.
They also need to add and app or update System Profiler so that the data is dynamic. You can see which graphics option is in use, at any one time but hitting Command-R to refresh gets annoying when done several hundred times. The silver lining: At least System Profiler doesn't cause the dGPU to run.
Comments
Anybody making an argument for a Dell or whatever other laptop, over an Mac portable, must account for these three elements. If not; you're just a laptop "poser".
Weight
Battery life
Build quality
It's listed under Sound preferences but the volume bar and mute control are greyed out.
It's a bummer the 13 inch MacBook Pro takes no advantage of the Arrandale features with its Core 2 Duo design. Either Apple was trying to make sure its entry level professional model could still sneak in under $1200, or it perhaps thought that using the Core i3 or i5 might result in constrained supplies for its popular entry level model due to the newness of the Arrandale components.
Pay attention, Daniel. Ars documented the fact that there isn't room enough in the 13" MBP to add the Arrandale hardware without relying on the sucktastic Intel HD graphics. For the marginal (nominal, really) improvement of an i3 you'd lose the significantly faster 320M graphics (resulting in a slower overall laptop). Or they would have to build a bigger case.
FWIW, I think there is plenty of margin in the 13" MBPs; I doubt the $1200 pricepoint would be in jeopardy if they went the the i3 or added discrete graphics...
I wonder what happens when the 13" MBP moves to Arrandale. They can't stay with C2Ds forever and Intel's GMA just can't do the job.
My wish is that they remove the ODD. I don't see any other way around it at this time. They can't go with Intel HD and no dGPU, but there is no room for a dGPU, and I don't they can do another do another C2D speed bump for more than more round, but I don't think they'll do that with Sandy Bridge offering such excellent power savings.
If one is comparing laptops, these are the three most important things.
Anybody making an argument for a Dell or whatever other laptop, over an Mac portable, must account for these three elements. If not; you're just a laptop "poser".
Weight
Battery life
Build quality
It's always a big clunky Dell or HP to a MBP. It's never that same, big clunky Dell or HP to the premium Dell or HP offerings that best match a MBP.
The MacBook still has the 9400M but the 13" MBP has the Nvidia 320M.
Yup. And my reading of the sentence is it is saying the 13" Pro still has the 9400M.
I compared the Dell XPS 16 with the i7 15" MBP to see what might justify the $900 price difference (I used the Norwegian Dell and Apple stores online for price comparisons and converted it to USD).
The Dell has a slightly better screen, or rather, a higher resolution screen. It also has faster RAM. It also has twice as much graphics RAM (1GB).
However... The MBP's CPU is almost 1GHz faster. The MBP also has much longer battery life and the stronger unibody build. The MBP also has small things like the multi-touch trackpad going for it.
So as far as value for money goes, it's almost a tie - the MBP being only very slightly more expensive. And this is absulutely worth it in my book, because of the much better design and OS X.
Here's Intel's price list if you want to compare the cost differences between the CPU models.
Anyone know how to enable HDMI audio? I can get it to display fine but the audio is still coming out of my new 15" MBP.
It's listed under Sound preferences but the volume bar and mute control are greyed out.
Off the top of my head I'd say your cable wasn't built to support Audio from mDP to HDMI since that wasn't originally an option...
I compared the Dell XPS 16 with the i7 15" MBP to see what might justify the $900 price difference (I used the Norwegian Dell and Apple stores online for price comparisons and converted it to USD).
The Dell has a slightly better screen, or rather, a higher resolution screen. It also has faster RAM. It also has twice as much graphics RAM (1GB).
However... The MBP's CPU is almost 1GHz faster. The MBP also has much longer battery life and the stronger unibody build. The MBP also has small things like the multi-touch trackpad going for it.
So as far as value for money goes, it's almost a tie - the MBP being only very slightly more expensive. And this is absulutely worth it in my book, because of the much better design and OS X.
The difference is that you're comparing two systems that are not equal in any way. For example, state that the Dell has a better screen, but then indicate that its resolution is better. The fact is that while the resolution is (marginally) higher, the quality of the screen is dramatically worse on the Dell. Compare the screens side by side. Since I spend a lot of tie looking at a laptop screen, that's important.
Then the other factors you cited - like 3 times the battery life, faster CPU, and better quality case (again, important for a laptop). Then consider things like customer satisfaction, reliability and support. Apple is always at or near the top and Dell is at the bottom.
Your comparison is like saying a Chevy Malibu sedan is a better car than a Ferrari because the Chevy seats more passengers and has more windows to roll down.
My wish is that they remove the ODD.
I don't think very many people would be happy with that. For the vast majority of users, the benefit of an i3 in the 13" would be marginal compared to the loss of functionality if the ODD were removed.
If one is comparing laptops, these are the three most important things.
Anybody making an argument for a Dell or whatever other laptop, over an Mac portable, must account for these three elements. If not; you're just a laptop "poser".
Weight
Battery life
Build quality
I agree 100%.
Thank you
I wonder what happens when the 13" MBP moves to Arrandale. They can't stay with C2Ds forever and Intel's GMA just can't do the job.
I think Apple will try to convince Intel to let Nvidia make chipsets for the Core i series of microprocessors. I see Apple's use of Intel HD integrated graphics as a temporary solution. Apple's discussions with AMD is a way to signal to Intel that Apple is not happy with the current Intel/Nvidia licensing situation.
The difference is that you're comparing two systems that are not equal in any way. For example, state that the Dell has a better screen, but then indicate that its resolution is better. The fact is that while the resolution is (marginally) higher, the quality of the screen is dramatically worse on the Dell. Compare the screens side by side. Since I spend a lot of tie looking at a laptop screen, that's important.
Then the other factors you cited - like 3 times the battery life, faster CPU, and better quality case (again, important for a laptop). Then consider things like customer satisfaction, reliability and support. Apple is always at or near the top and Dell is at the bottom.
Your comparison is like saying a Chevy Malibu sedan is a better car than a Ferrari because the Chevy seats more passengers and has more windows to roll down.
I agree whole-heartedly. I was just trying to point out some of the major differences between the two to those who compared the new MBP to the Dell XPS 16 above my initial comment. What I said about the screen is basically what you said. I was just writing as I was thinking and didn't bother to go back and edit, so I said "better, or rather, higher resolution"
I couldn't really say anything about the customer service thing as I don't have any experience with either manufacturers in that regard, and I didn't feel like trying to search for any documentation as to which might have a better track record in this area.
I'm a huge Apple fan, and can't see myself switching to anything else at least in the next 10 years.
The MacBook Pros gain an stronger edge in both processing and graphics performance over the entry level white MacBook and compact MacBook Air, thanks largely to the NVIDIA GeForce 320M in the 13 inch MacBook Pro and the NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M in the 15 and 17 inch models.
While the MacBook Pro's CPUs and GPUs have been rejiggered, their unibody contraction and other features are largely unchanged: rigid aluminum cases with strong edges; good keyboard feel with backlit typing; a big, glass trackpad that supports gestures and secondary clicks; all the same ports as the previous models; and the same high quality displays with wide viewing angles and a glossy screen.
As with the previous generation of MacBook Pros (review), the 17 inch model uniquely features three USB ports (rather than two on the 15 inch model) and its ExpressCard/34 slot (rather than just an SD Card slot on other MacBook models.) If you want an SD Card slot reader, you can get one for the 17" model's ExpressCard slot for about $20. The card slot comes in handy if you want to use 3G WWAN card or have some specialized need for an interface like eSATA or additional Firewire ports, although Apple's says its surveys show that only 10% of users ever actually use the ExpressCard slot. If you're in that minority of users who need it, the 17 inch model is the only way to get it on a MacBook.
Who proof reads these reviews?
The above should read as follows :-
The MacBook Pros gain a stronger edge in both processing and graphics performance over the entry level white MacBook and compact MacBook Air, thanks largely to the NVIDIA GeForce 320M in the 13 inch MacBook Pro and the NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M in the 15 and 17 inch models.
While the MacBook Pro's CPUs and GPUs have been rejiggered, their unibody construction and other features are largely unchanged: rigid aluminum cases with strong edges; good keyboard feel with backlit typing; a big, glass trackpad that supports gestures and secondary clicks; all the same ports as the previous models; and the same high quality displays with wide viewing angles and a glossy screen.
As with the previous generation of MacBook Pros (review), the 17 inch model uniquely features three USB ports (rather than two on the 15 inch model) and its ExpressCard/34 slot (rather than just an SD Card slot on other MacBook models.) If you want an SD Card slot reader, you can get one for the 17" model's ExpressCard slot for about $20. The card slot comes in handy if you want to use 3G WWAN card or have some specialized need for an interface like eSATA or additional Firewire ports, although Apple says its surveys show that only 10% of users ever actually use the ExpressCard slot. If you're in that minority of users who need it, the 17 inch model is the only way to get it on a MacBook.
But the one "Con" is that it runs Windows, not OSX...
Windows 7 is ok. I think the major "con" for PC notebook is a lack of multi-touch pad. That's alone worth a lot more than 4 cores vs 2 cores or Blu-Ray drive or...
I have to agree with this. I had to purchase a new laptop this month, and a similarly equipped Dell Studio 16 with i7 and a better screen was $1000 less than the macbook....I was really disappointed. I couldn't justify that price difference.
The buy the PC, simple!
There are MANY small, tiny programs that seem to switch to use the discreet graphics. Its just about impossible to use any website without it switching on as well (even gmail). Small menubar programs seem to trigger discreet graphics. There is NO current way to force the laptop to use integrated graphics, you can only choose to force discreet graphics.
Here some more info on the topic:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....readID=2407482
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....readID=2414239
Some apps that force discreet graphics:
Cloud
ShoveBox
Tweetie
HyperSpaces
Skype
iWeb
iMovie
GarageBand
Parallels 5 Desktop
Microsoft Office 2004
Microsoft Office AutoUpdate daemon
RapidWeaver
PathFinder
Mathematica
Warp
Droplr
1Password
Clips
NetNewsWire
Koolclip
atMonitor
Delicious Library
Fresh
Little Snapper
OmmWriter
Picturesque
Pixelmator
RipIt
Rucksack
Screen Sharing
Scribbles
Skim (after searching)
The Hit List
Times
VMWare Fusion 3 (gfx acceleration disabled)
Second, Apple does not offer a 7200rpm HDD drive option for the MacBook Pro 13". That alone should call the "Pro" moniker into question.
I bought the a new 17" MacBook and I'm less than impressed with the new graphics switching. Many other are having the same problem. Unless Apple does something I can definitely see a lawsuit coming on due to deceptive advertising of battery life. I've never gotten above 3-4 hours at best even just doing casual browsing.
There are MANY small, tiny programs that seem to switch to use the discreet graphics. Its just about impossible to use any website without it switching on as well (even gmail). Small menubar programs seem to trigger discreet graphics. There is NO current way to force the laptop to use integrated graphics, you can only choose to force discreet graphics.
Here some more info on the topic:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....readID=2407482
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....readID=2414239
Some apps that force discreet graphics:
[...]
It's quite a shame. Apple's solution has a great benefit over Nvidia's Optimus as it doesn't have the limited and unintelligent requirement of making a decision based on what processes are running. It should be able to monitor the load independent of what apps are open. Hopefully they get that worked out.
I spent about an hour in and Apple Store on two occasions ? before and after the graphics update ? doing tests and looking for hidden switch to disable the dGPU completely in favour of the IGP for best power savings, at least when the battery in use. Nothing! With Apple as obsessed with power and duration per charge (as they should be) you'd think this would have the default feature.
They also need to add and app or update System Profiler so that the data is dynamic. You can see which graphics option is in use, at any one time but hitting Command-R to refresh gets annoying when done several hundred times. The silver lining: At least System Profiler doesn't cause the dGPU to run.
Who proof reads these reviews?
First, I think the article referred to SSDs (Solid State Drives) as SDDs.
Definitely not one of Prince's, er, I mean Daniel's best efforts...