Apple sued over iPhone 4 reception issues

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  • freddychfreddych Posts: 266member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kyle76 View Post


    I just got off the phone with someone at the Apple Fifth Ave. store in New York as well. She said there is no restocking fee under the open box policy because the phone has to be opened in the store for activation, thus the customer can't be faulted for opening the box. She said plainly: return within 30 days for a full refund for any reason with no charges whatsoever.



    Sounds like each store has a different "reason" for making an exception for the iPhone 4. Unfortunately, none of these exceptions are written policy, so Apple is free to change this at any time.



    In the legal world, we call this a wrong that is capable of repetition yet evading review.
  • vince_jtvince_jt Posts: 23member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Your logic is wrong. I'm right handed, but I hold the phone in my left hand. In fact, I watched people today and most of the right handed people I know hold their cell phones in their left hand. So much for that argument.

    First, there's no evidence that ANYONE is experiencing a disproportionate amount of dropped calls due to the antenna. That's just all the whining you here.



    Second, it doesn't matter if the person is right handed or left handed. If they hold the phone in their left hand, they should have the problem - no matter which hand is dominant.



    No one's apologizing for Apple - they are simply asking for facts rather than hysteria.



    Maybe you should spend your energy collecting real data instead of whining about injustice. At this point, there's plenty of evidence that a lot of phone experience a reduction in bars - and Apple has said that a software fix will be out for that. There is no valid evidence that dropped calls are a widespread problem. So where's the evidence for the design flaw that you keep imagining?



    We have a winner..... apologist. Did not take long.



    I did not say that some right hand people can't hold the phone in there left hand. Where did I say that? If they do then they'd be f***ked too. What is your point exactly? If right handed people hold the phone in there left hand then there are potentially 'more'affected users than just left handers like me. Don't tell me about collecting real data. I am using a real phone with real world use. It is a REAL problem. Try harder.
  • dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 11,562member, moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post


    Why not just pay $30 for a cheap, hideous piece of rubberized plastic from Apple? http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews...or-rip-off.ars



    Because that's what a reasonable person who buys a device to use it would do-- recognize a problem, work out a reasonable bypass, then move on.



    The complainers here, with the most posts, did not buy the device,. Many joined in the last few days or weeks, it seems: just to post negative assertions!



    Since they are not experiencing the problem, they cannot bypass it! They are fighting a symbolic battle-- even admitting a viable work-around would weaken theiragenda.



    Here's a suggestion that could separate the wheat from the chaff:



    Ask every poster to post his CVs-- a recent snapshot (iPhone users know how to do this) of his home screen showing time (within say, 5-10 minutes of his post).



    Here's mine:







    Show me yours!



    .
  • wolfmanwolfman Posts: 79member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DarenDino View Post


    Not sure how a software patch will resolve the problem, seems it is a hardware, or physical part of the phone, which reacts when 'touched', bit like touching an indoor aerial on your TV makes the picture go snowy.



    It sound like a material problem, conductive.



    Maybe the handset will have to be trashed and remade with alternative materials. The iPhone 4 is this year's puck mouse !



    At the end of the day, you don't know enough about the device or the issue to make these kinds of statements.



    I certainly don't, hence I stay away from making comments in absolutes. I am also OK to give Apple a couple of weeks to sort this out (which they will). IMO, this would also be the appropriate course of action before any lawsuit even makes sense...



    This is clearly a bigger PR issue for Apple, albeit not as dramatic as many like to make it out to be.



    I had every iPhone made to date and think this one is by far the the most significant upgrade to date. Personally, I find the thought of canceling an iPhone 4 contract over spending £30 for a bumper just plain silly (if that is what your girlfriend is really doing).



    The iPhone4 offers too many features and benefits over any other phone in the market, including the iPhone 3GS to just give that up over a few bucks.



    Wolfman
  • freddychfreddych Posts: 266member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Who cares? If the phone is defective, there's no charge. If it's not defective, a restocking fee is reasonable.



    The only issue is that you have to be able to prove that you have a defective phone. It's in your court.



    Look, no one throws down 200+ dollars and signs a 2 year contract to get a phone that they want to complain about. Complaints are coming from genuine iPhone 4 owners. You wouldn't get this kind of publicity for a problem that isn't really a problem.



    I fully admit that I haven't bought an iPhone 4 yet. I missed the pre-order phase, and wasn't able to camp out for one on launch day. After hearing about these rumors, I went to the Apple store and tested 12 different phones, holding them in the way which I felt was most natural (and the way in which I hold my 3GS). It yielded similar results. I didn't test calls, but it definitely did slow down data speeds.
  • trajectorytrajectory Posts: 647member
    omg, here we go again! I see the fur is already flying.



    You know, as much as I'd hate to be one of those with a problematic iPhone 4, I do think all this class action lawsuit stuff is a tad opportunistic being only a week into the launch. I'm sure by now Apple has its engineers looking into this, but, come on people, it's going to take a little longer than a few days to determine the true nature of the problem along with a possible fix or remedy.



    If you are still able to return the phone, how can you claim damages from Apple? I don't understand that. But I do understand people being pissed off that their new phone can't make calls when they hold it.



    Here's a good story about all the various class action lawsuits being started...



    http://www.pcworld.com/article/20025...its_begin.html
  • jupiteronejupiterone Posts: 1,563member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Ask every poster to post his CVs-- a recent snapshot (iPhone users know how to do this) of his home screen showing time (within say, 5-10 minutes of his post).

    Show me yours!



    What are CVs?



    Also, doesn't this just show you are running iOS 4.0?
  • dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 11,562member, moderator
    .



    Well, reluctantly, I finally must admit that I have experienced "losing bars".



    I get so vocal when discussing this issue, that I've been 86ed from several of them...



    Sigh!



    .
  • radster360radster360 Posts: 500member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    This will need to be addressed soon by Apple, one way or another. It is a serious issue, seemingly affecting a fair number of people (including me).



    Returning, while fine in principle, is not a painless process. It involves time, a restocking fee, a replacement that could be prone to the same issues, ATT-related contract hassles, etc. Apple will have to address those issues as well.



    As a shareholder too, I don't like this.



    I also agree. As a shareholder I am a bit disappointed with the way the company has been responding. But not too much concerned about the stock price at it will recover. I have the reception issue if I hold the phone natural way. Now I hold my phone the "Right Way" as per Apple and it just doesn't feel comfortable in my hand. I am even afraid that I might drop the phone and in couple of occasions I almost did.



    In any case, people have suggested simple solutions! Use some coating or put small paper over the band, etc. If those approach work, Apple can easily manufacture a little sticker and have them available from Apple Store or AT&T or BestBuy. Just like those stoppers that Toyota put on the pedals in Prius.



    Steve - Don't drag it! You have a very fine device and you have geniuses working there. Come up with a creative after-market solution and get the ball rolling.
  • dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 11,562member, moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post


    What are CVs?



    Also, doesn't this just show you are running iOS 4.0?



    CV

    abbreviation

    ? cardiovascular.

    ? curriculum vitae.

    curriculum vitae |kəˈrik(y)ələm ˈvēˌtī; ˈvītē| (abbr.: CV)

    noun ( pl. curricula vitae |kəˈrik(y)ələ|)

    a brief account of a person's education, qualifications, and previous experience, typically sent with a job application.



    Yeah, guess it does-- but at least it shows that I have an iPhone (and at least a 3G, 3GS or 4).



    I'll try to resend the image at full size and see if you can tell the difference:



    Here's the original iP4 image at full size:







    Then a similar image taken with the 3GS (no size option)"







    I think you can see that even though the iP4 image is larger the text and images are much clearer!



    .
  • headrush69headrush69 Posts: 45member
    This isn't a flaw, it's a feature. Testing has show it improves WiFi reception.



    http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/t...one-4-review/2



  • kyle76kyle76 Posts: 54member
    Here's mine with the base of my palm over the gap between the antenna. Seconds later, with my palm removed, I was at 5 bars.



  • drew85drew85 Posts: 1member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DarenDino View Post


    I think we can all agree that the iPhone has a flaw that when held like a 'phone' it loses it's signal and ability to make calls.



    All Apple has to do is admit it is flawed, recall the devices and fix it.



    By being in denial and telling people not to hold it like a phone is like something out of a Monty Python sketch.



    There are worldwide reports this iPhone 4 is showing the same defect, no matter what carrier.



    Apple is being a greedy corporation and refuses to accept the 1000s of people who say that the phone is defective.



    I change my handset every 18 months and currently have the iPhone 3Gs - I, and many of my friends, work colleagues have never heard of or owned a phone that loses it signal when held.



    http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/24/...l-loss-issues/



    not exactly true, nexus had an issue and was fixed by software fix.
  • mr underhillmr underhill Posts: 678member
    Here's mine.







    Notice the No Bars. Probably have the worst 3G in the UK but iPhone 3G & 4 never drop calls.

  • dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 11,562member, moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kyle76 View Post


    Here's mine with the base of my palm over the gap between the antenna. Seconds later, with my palm removed, I was at 5 bars.




    Nice!



    Sorry about the bars issue! Do you experience any call issues: dropped; inability to call out; unavailable for incoming?



    .
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Vince_JT View Post


    We have a winner..... apologist. Did not take long.



    I did not say that some right hand people can't hold the phone in there left hand. Where did I say that? If they do then they'd be f***ked too. What is your point exactly? If right handed people hold the phone in there left hand then there are potentially 'more'affected users than just left handers like me. Don't tell me about collecting real data. I am using a real phone with real world use. It is a REAL problem. Try harder.



    I have an iPhone 4 and it works better than my iPhone 3. Anand also reported that the iPhone 4 works better than the iPhone 3GS. So by your logic, people having a problem are in the minority.



    FACTS are not the same as anecdotal whining. How many calls did you drop? How many calls did you drop with a different phone on the same network at the same time?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by freddych View Post


    Look, no one throws down 200+ dollars and signs a 2 year contract to get a phone that they want to complain about. Complaints are coming from genuine iPhone 4 owners. You wouldn't get this kind of publicity for a problem that isn't really a problem.



    I fully admit that I haven't bought an iPhone 4 yet..



    ROTFLMAO. So the only people complaining are people who have bought the phone -- EXCEPT for people like you who haven't bought it but are still complaining. You couldn't have contradicted yourself more fully if you had tried.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kyle76 View Post


    Here's mine with the base of my palm over the gap between the antenna. Seconds later, with my palm removed, I was at 5 bars.







    No one denies that the number of bars can change. The issue is whether there are dropped calls. Most reports say that while the number of bars changes, the iPhone 4 does a better job of making calls than previous phones.



    Your drop in the number of bars is completely meaningless if there's no impact on your ability to make calls.
  • kyle76kyle76 Posts: 54member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by g3pro View Post


    Cool, so that means you can totally trash the phone and still get a full refund!



    Thanks for trolling, you've brightened my day.



    So, when I conclusively refute your earlier post, I'm trolling? Thanks for affirming my earlier observation.
  • kyle76kyle76 Posts: 54member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Your drop in the number of bars is completely meaningless if there's no impact on your ability to make calls.



    I agree. However, in several locations where I normally have 5 bars, I have had the signal drop all the way down to "No Signal" -- at which point I am unable to make a call. I find that meaningful. I'm not here to trash Apple, but the problem is real and separate from the normal signal attenuation that all phones suffer. I'll keep the phone because I like it and I can hold it in a way that doesn't constitute a death grip with little inconvenience to me.
  • bagmanbagman Posts: 349member
    (am a big Apple fan and stockholder, so am distressed to report):



    I took my ip4 down to the Apple store in Palo Alto (yes, the one Jobs visited on the first day of sales). I could not duplicate the constant problem with reception there, and was annoyed they said they could not help me on an Apple warranty issue, but that I would have to return to ATT to resolve it, since I bought it from them - oh well).



    ATT will (after much browbeating) take back my phone next week (as soon as I re-buy a 3GS phone on Ebay, since I had sold mine the week before, so I can re-activate my original ATT contract). Interesting that I could not duplicate the problem there either (because of a strong 3G signal, I surmise), but going one block away allowed me to get the same dropped internet 3G downloading and dropped calls as before.



    I will be awaiting the FIRMWARE or HARDWARE upgrade of the phone, because it is a remarkable phone, but will not be stuck with this model, since I cannot depend on Jobs to do the right thing (apparently), and assure me I will get a replacement, if I go beyond the 30 days I have to return it - bottom line, I will be back to 3GS until, or if, Apple makes a suitable replacement that works, without all the bumper/handheld/skin conductivity BS that seems to pass for an excuse to hold onto the current "prototype" model.



    Wish I hadn't been subjected to this as a guinea pig of sorts, but can see that mistakes were made (and perhaps not by design - hey sh*t happens).



    Jobs better do the right thing here - right?
  • solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bagman View Post


    ...and was annoyed they said they could not help me on an Apple warranty issue, but that I would have to return to ATT to resolve it, since I bought it from them - oh well).



    Just to be clear, you are annoyed at having an issue in general, not because you can't buy a product from one store and return it to another store for a full refund using the reciept from a separately owned business simply because they carry the same product, right?
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