FTC believed to be investigating Apple's anti-Flash stance

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Comments

  • icyfogicyfog Posts: 338member
    This investigation is bogus.

    Apple is its own company. It can choose what it wants to do in regards to what code it wants on its iDevices.
  • firefly7475firefly7475 Posts: 1,499member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    So why isn't Adobe Flash available in Cydia?



    Adobe aren't going to put any effort into Flash on the iPhone unless Apple give the ok for mobile Safari plug-ins (which obviously isn't going to happen!)
  • anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,558member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    Adobe aren't going to put any effort into Flash on the iPhone unless Apple give the ok for mobile Safari plug-ins (which obviously isn't going to happen!)



    When are they going to put some effort into Flash on the Mac or Linux?
  • firefly7475firefly7475 Posts: 1,499member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by acorn.alert View Post


    No matter what the FTC's decision might be there's no getting round it for Adobe - an alternative intermediary software layer that runs on the iPhone will be forced to duplicate what's already running



    Doesn't this only apply to Flash running inside another process (i.e. as a browser plug-in) and not when Flash is ported to a native application?
  • firefly7475firefly7475 Posts: 1,499member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by justflybob View Post


    There is actually very little information in this thread that would help a novice understand that difference.

    Care to shed some light from your perspective?



    One runs as a process inside a web browser (and, as a general rule of thumb f**ks everything up).



    The other runs as a standalone application (and, depending on how it is used, is indistinguishable from other native applications)
  • rationaltrollrationaltroll Posts: 510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Actually, there's no such threshold. But go ahead and show us where the Sherman Act defines a monopoly as 40%.



    The more astute reader will note that that's not exactly what I wrote. This is commonly called a "straw man attack", obvious enough in itself and your coupling it with ad hominem attacks further on only draws attention to the lack of merit in your post.



    While there is no fixed percentage of market control defining a trust per se, those who follow antitrust litigation will observe what this analyst notes:



    "As Glazer sees it, the powers that be won’t even consider an antitrust suit until a company has 40 per cent share of the affected market."

    http://www.telecomtv.com/comspace_ne...e2a2a10&page=2





    Quote:

    For extra credit, feel free to show where the Sherman Act says that monopolies are illegal.



    Another straw man from the man who just doesn't know when to quit.



    The Sherman Act does not say "monopolies are illegal", but instead merely defines many of the laws which comprise the foundation of antitrust regulations in the US. On this Wikipedia is your friend:



    "The Sherman Antitrust Act (Sherman Act,[1] July 2, 1890, ch. 647, 26 Stat. 209, 15 U.S.C. § 1–7) requires the United States Federal government to investigate and pursue trusts, companies and organizations suspected of violating the Act. It was the first Federal statute to limit cartels and monopolies, and today still forms the basis for most antitrust litigation by the United States federal government."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_Act





    Quote:

    I don't know why you're so eager to make yourself look foolish. You claimed that Apple's profits were excessive - and then used gross margin (which some uninformed people call 'gross profit') figures. And then you keep repeating the same mistake over and over - even after you're told.



    I will correct you on this for the last time: It was the article I quoted which referred to the figure that so offended you as "gross profit". In that thread I also kindly supplied you with the contact info for AppleInsider to assist you in finding the only party who can possibly help you if you take exception to their choice of words. Instead, you merely persisted with your personal attacks (a frequent gambit of yours and a regular source of amusement to the readers here).



    You are free to retract your claim, or perhaps better still just move on and leave that embarrassment behind you. As you wish.





    Quote:

    But the important thing is that the entire premise of your post is wrong. Apple has no obligation to make life easier for developers.



    Three straw men in one post. Well done; no one here could have discredited you more effectively.



    Indeed, I fully agree that Apple has no obligation to make it easy for developers to deploy to iOS, and developers are responding in kind:



    Developers migrate from iPhone to Android in droves

    Research finds 60 percent of developers working on Android

    http://www.techeye.net/mobile/develo...roid-in-droves



    Come with this handy chart:







    See also:



    Apple app developers furious with their cut of profits

    http://www.techeye.net/internet/appl...cut-of-profits



    AOL Mobile Goes HTML5, Picks Android Over iPhone for New App

    http://gigaom.com/2010/07/22/aol-mob...e-for-new-app/



    Apple Says “Sue Us, Please!” to iPhone, iPad Developers

    http://www.bnet.com/blog/technology-...evelopers/3336



    Over 70% of iPhone developers are planning Android apps

    http://www.neowin.net/news/over-70-o...g-android-apps



    Tim Bray Throws His Hat Into The Android Ring Because He Hates The iPhone

    http://techcrunch.com/2010/03/15/tim...google-iphone/



    Developers More Interested in Android than iPad

    http://mashable.com/2010/03/31/ipad-developer-interest/



    Google’s Android Gaining on Apple via Developers

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...-on-apple.html



    More:

    http://www.google.com/search?q=iphon...eloper+migrate
  • firefly7475firefly7475 Posts: 1,499member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post


    I would just like to end this conversation with one praise for Adobe (well actually Macromedia) I'm quite fond of the timeline based method of working in flash. I have repeatedly badgered Apple over the years to introduce a timeline based tool to its suite, and I'm still convinced that it is on it's way, combined with Quartz Composer, one day, fingers crossed.



    I totally agree. Imagine if a company was able to create a modern, rich language with a coherent and consistent API framework and then marry that with the time-saving features of a powerful timeline editor for animations and transformations.



    That would surely be an awesome platform to work on... would it not?



  • rationaltrollrationaltroll Posts: 510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    When are they going to put some effort into Flash on the Mac or Linux?



    Probably the day either gets at least 10% of the market.
  • anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,558member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post


    Probably the day either gets at least 10% of the market.



    You make my case for me. Exactly a reason why Flash should be considered harmful.
  • rationaltrollrationaltroll Posts: 510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    You make my case for me. Exactly a reason why Flash should be considered harmful.



    Flash is harmful because neither Mac nor Linux is marketed effectively enough to take a mere 10% of the market from the abysmal garbage that is Windows?



    Kindly enlighten us on the correlation.
  • firefly7475firefly7475 Posts: 1,499member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    The FTC has no more right to tell Apple that they should support Flash iOS apps than they do to tell them to support Flash plug-ins. If they go down that path, what's next? Telling Apple that Mac OS X has to run Windows apps natively without purchasing other software? Telling Microsoft that Windows has to be written in Objective C? Or maybe telling Sony that they're not allowed to sell a DVD player that doesn't play Blu-Ray as well as DVDs. Or maybe telling Ford and GM that they have to design their cars so engine parts are interchangeable.



    I don't think your analogy is accurate. It's more like Microsoft saying that only applications developed with Visual Studio are allowed to run on Windows, or Sony saying only Sony brand SD cards can be used in Sony products, or GM saying you can only use GM brand windscreen wiper replacements.



    I'm actually interested to know if Adobe abused any of Apple's patents in the process of creating iOS compatible applications.
  • ssquirrelssquirrel Posts: 1,196member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CraigAppleW View Post


    3/4 of all web video is Flash based



    Except, you know, youtube.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CraigAppleW View Post


    The best advertising is Flash based



    Like that's going to convince anyone. People hate ads



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CraigAppleW View Post


    The best interactive content is Flash based



    What, Farmville? I think I'm safe not experiencing that



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CraigAppleW View Post


    All The best movie sites are done in Flash



    Funny I use the apple trailer site since most of the best trailers end up there.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CraigAppleW View Post


    People that hate Flash are just those who hate advertising...which is the only viable financial model for most web sites.



    Or people who hate buggy, shitty software that crashes often.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CraigAppleW View Post


    ClicktoFlashers are no different than software pirates: Entitled, sophmoric, selfish, and shortsighted.



    Wow, nice. I realize you were just trolling here and all, but you are obviously fucking stupid making statements like this.





    Also, since when is there a law that companies are required to support your software? The government is going to step in and tell Apple that they have to run Flash when Adobe can't even produce a working version that doesn't drain battery life like a frat drains a keg?
  • anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,558member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post


    Flash is harmful because neither Mac nor Linux is marketed effectively enough to take a mere 10% of the market from the abysmal garbage that is Windows?



    Kindly enlighten us on the correlation.



    Sometimes, I really wonder at your lack of simple understanding. Flash is harmful because the implementation, which pretends to be part of the www, is tied to specific platforms, which web content ought not be. Sorry, everyone, for having to state the obvious to the oblivious.
  • rationaltrollrationaltroll Posts: 510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    I don't think your analogy is accurate. It's more like Microsoft saying that only applications developed with Visual Studio are allowed to run on Windows, or Sony saying only Sony brand SD cards can be used in Sony products, or GM saying you can only use GM brand windscreen wiper replacements.



    ...or Nintendo insisting that you can only deliver games for their platform on cartridges they manufacture:



    Nintendo DS Flash Cards are Legal Says Judge

    Nintendo lost its case against flash card manufacturer Divineo, accused of locking out developers.

    http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Nintendo...news-5270.html
  • rationaltrollrationaltroll Posts: 510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RationalTroll

    Flash is harmful because neither Mac nor Linux is marketed effectively enough to take a mere 10% of the market from the abysmal garbage that is Windows?



    Kindly enlighten us on the correlation.



    Sometimes, I really wonder at your lack of simple understanding. Flash is harmful because the implementation, which pretends to be part of the www, is tied to specific platforms, which web content ought not be. Sorry, everyone, for having to state the obvious to the oblivious.



    While you review the question to better understand how your reply fails to address it, the rest of us are left wondering if such abstract claims are related to some sort of wacky numerology.
  • chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    When are they going to put some effort into Flash on the Mac or Linux?



    It's been said before: Flash runs great in Windows because Microsoft worked with Adobe. The only effort that's needed for OSX is on Apple's part, but they don't want Flash to have the same access to the innards of the OS as it does in Windows, because Apple is convinced it's a security flaw.



    What you have in the end is Flash working great in Windows, with security holes patched by Microsoft, and exploits handled by anti virus software, and Apple sitting like a child with their arms crossed not wanting to do any of that. It's most definitely in Apple's interest to pursue html5, spread misinformation about flash, and demonize Adobe.
  • ssquirrelssquirrel Posts: 1,196member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    It's been said before: Flash runs great in Windows because Microsoft worked with Adobe. The only effort that's needed for OSX is on Apple's part, but they don't want Flash to have the same access to the innards of the OS as it does in Windows, because Apple is convinced it's a security flaw.



    What you have in the end is Flash working great in Windows, with security holes patched by Microsoft, and exploits handled by anti virus software, and Apple sitting like a child with their arms crossed not wanting to do any of that.



    So you're saying that Apple protects their users from shitty software? Fantastic!
  • chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post


    Or people who hate buggy, shitty software that crashes often.



    LOL! There's a reason why they're all OSX users also.



    I haven't had flash crash on me in Windows since macromedia owned it.
  • chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post


    So you're saying that Apple protects their users from shitty software? Fantastic!



    Microsoft has silverlight to compete with flash, and they still did what was needed to improve the user's experience in the end.



    Take it how you want it, but Apple can't just point the finger entirely at Adobe when clearly it runs fine in other operating systems.
  • firefly7475firefly7475 Posts: 1,499member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    When are they going to put some effort into Flash on the Mac or Linux?



    <removed>
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