Apple adds 12 more patents to lawsuit against Motorola

Posted:
in iPhone edited January 2014
Apple has amended its lawsuit against Motorola to include 12 more patents, bringing the total count of patents that Apple accuses Motorola of violating to 24, while Motorola alleges that Apple has infringed on 18 of its patents.



Motorola first sued Apple in October in what many believe was a preemptive move after Apple sued HTC for violation of smartphone patents that the company holds. Motorola and HTC are two of the most prominent makers of Android-based smartphones.



"We can sit by and watch competitors steal our patented inventions, or we can do something about it," Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs said of his company's case against HTC. "We've decided to do something about it."



In its suit against Apple, Motorola accused the iPhone maker of refusing to pay a license after "lengthy negotiations." Motorola also claims Apple infringed upon patents relating to technologies that include 3G, GPRS, 802.11 wireless and antenna design.



After Motorola sued Apple, the Cupertino, Calif., company quickly responded with a countersuit. Last week, the U.S. International Trade Commission announced that it was launching a formal investigation of Motorola in response to Apple's allegations.



Apple's motion this week to add an additional 12 patents to its lawsuit against Motorola counters a preemptive request filed by Motorola in October for a declaratory judgment that would block Apple from using those patents against Motorola in court. The declaratory judgment references 11 patents that Apple used in its suit against HTC, but had yet to use against Motorola.



The iPhone maker has requested that Motorola's declaratory judgment case, which was filed in Delaware, be dismissed or moved to Wisconsin, where Apple's suit against Motorola was filed, Electronista reports. Apple argues that since Motorola is already suing Microsoft in Wisconsin, moving the declaratory judgment case there shouldn't be a problem.



Apple's legal wrangling has made it the "world's most-sued tech company" since 2008 and forced it to expand its legal department. According to a Bloomberg earlier this week, Apple has brought on "some of the nation's top patent lawyers as outside counsel."



In 2009, 27 patent infringement lawsuits were filed against Apple. According to Apple, responding to those claims, whether valid or not, consumes "significant time and expense."
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Comments

  • oflifeoflife Posts: 120member
    While Apple have a record of innovation in other areas, if readers check GSMArena and other veteran phone blogs, they will discover how innovative Motorola have been in phone design, not just in wireless, something they are historically renowned for.



    Apple's greatest mistake, (and this is why ALL of their wireless equipped products, including Powerbooks, (some) Macbooks, all iPhone models and the WiFi iPad have a history of flaky wireless performance) was not to purchase a wireless hardware vendor a while back, if not Motorola themselves, who would have not only provided Apple decades of wireless expertise, but captured a future Android OEM.



    On this one, as an avid Apple user (typing this on an iPad), I must side with Motorola.







    QUOTE=AppleInsider;1763131]Apple has amended its lawsuit against Motorola to include 12 more patents, bringing the total count of patents that Apple accuses Motorola of violating to 24, while Motorola alleges that Apple has infringed on 18 of its patents.



    Motorola first sued Apple in October in what many believe was a preemptive move after Apple sued HTC for violation of smartphone patents that the company holds. Motorola and HTC are two of the most prominent makers of Android-based smartphones.



    "We can sit by and watch competitors steal our patented inventions, or we can do something about it," Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs said of his company's case against HTC. "We've decided to do something about it."



    In its suit against Apple, Motorola accused the iPhone maker of refusing to pay a license after "lengthy negotiations." Motorola also claims Apple infringed upon patents relating to technologies that include 3G, GPRS, 802.11 wireless and antenna design.



    After Motorola sued Apple, the Cupertino, Calif., company quickly responded with a countersuit. Last week, the U.S. International Trade Commission announced that it was launching a formal investigation of Motorola in response to Apple's allegations.



    Apple's motion this week to add an additional 12 patents to its lawsuit against Motorola counters a preemptive request filed by Motorola in October for a declaratory judgment that would block Apple from using those patents against Motorola in court. The declaratory judgment references 11 patents that Apple used in its suit against HTC, but had yet to use against Motorola.



    The iPhone maker has requested that Motorola's declaratory judgment case, which was filed in Delaware, be dismissed or moved to Wisconsin, where Apple's suit against Motorola was filed, Electronista reports. Apple argues that since Motorola is already suing Microsoft in Wisconsin, moving the declaratory judgment case there shouldn't be a problem.



    Apple's legal wrangling has made it the "world's most-sued tech company" since 2008 and forced it to expand its legal department. According to a Bloomberg earlier this week, Apple has brought on "some of the nation's top patent lawyers as outside counsel."



    In 2009, 27 patent infringement lawsuits were filed against Apple. According to Apple, responding to those claims, whether valid or not, consumes "significant time and expense."[/QUOTE]
  • giosacconegiosaccone Posts: 121member
    This is not a little number...... \
  • bigpicsbigpics Posts: 1,285member
    Kinda' sounds like more tit for tat as in, nyahh, nyahh, now we're suing you for more patent violations than you're suing us for.



    I know some of these cases may be important, and that IP and basic hardware patents are huge - but we've learned most of these cases that aren't dismissed early end up in trading reciprocal rights, or if from one side, to the other agreeing to license fees.



    America is the most litigious society in the world. That's 'cos we got more damn lawyers per square inch than makes any sense. Shakespeare knew. Anyway, check back in with a report when something's decided already.....
  • kingkueikingkuei Posts: 137member
    Feels like old times again, except this time it's not Apple vs Microsoft. It's Apple vs HTC, Motorola, + yet to be named defendants or claimants in the battle over mobile patents.



    Sadly, the court system, patent system, and all the agencies created to enforce the rules are simply no better equipped to deal with these disputes today than they were more than 2 decades ago. This almost guarantees that the coming legal storm will be long and drawn out, concluding long after the mobile wars are over and one platform has already come out dominant regardless of whether or not they legally deserved to.



    As regretful as it is, it's not surprising. While mobile tech has been around for quite awhile now, we're now at a point where it's a land grab, as if the mobile landscape was the wild west. Naturally, every company that has even a hope of remaining relevant had best assert the patent claims now to ensure their place in licensing technology and the royalties that come with it.



    Get some towels. The fight's gonna get messy.
  • hill60hill60 Posts: 6,960member
    Motorola is highly likely to be making 7" and 10" tablets soon showing just how desperate Motorola has become, grasping at anything to stay relevant.



    Apple has been innovating and making wireless (WiFi) devices for years involving transmission of data using radio waves.



    They have a decades long history in the field of computer hardware and PDA's (Newton).



    It's like the 1984 ad all over again with Apple breaking free of the Cellphone "Big Brother" consortium of companies who sought to maintain their control by keeping out new players.



    Motorola's innovation died with the Razr, Nokia's innovation died with the N95 when both companies became complacent and misread the massive change instigated by Apple.



    Such a showdown became almost inevitable as the worlds of cellphones and computers converged.



    What is surprising is that Apple is using their own data dormancy state with the 4.2 iOS update as was recently discovered by Nokia-Seimens networks, so how much more did Apple create independently of the cellphone status quo?



    Something which is up to the courts to decide.
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Oflife View Post


    While Apple have a record of innovation in other areas, if readers check GSMArena and other veteran phone blogs, they will discover how innovative Motorola have been in phone design, not just in wireless, something they are historically renowned for.



    The difference, of course, is that Motorola is a signatory to Fair and Non-discriminatory License agreements and is required to license their patents to everyone at the same rate. Apple is not required to license its GUI and other patents to anyone.



    There were significant rumors that Motorola wanted more money from Apple than anyone else - which would be a violation of their agreement and Apple would not have to sign such a license. The fact that Motorola admits that they had lengthy discussions confirms that.



    If Motorola offered Apple FAND terms, then Apple's answer would have been 'yes' or 'no' - and there would have been no need for lengthy discussions. Even if Apple asked for better terms, Motorola's answer would have been 'no, because we can't do that under our license agreements with others'. The fact that there were lengthy discussions can ONLY be explained by Motorola asking for more from Apple than they get under FAND.
  • mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 6,863member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Oflife View Post


    While Apple have a record of innovation in other areas, if readers check GSMArena and other veteran phone blogs, they will discover how innovative Motorola have been in phone design, not just in wireless, something they are historically renowned for.



    Apple's greatest mistake, (and this is why ALL of their wireless equipped products, including Powerbooks, (some) Macbooks, all iPhone models and the WiFi iPad have a history of flaky wireless performance) was not to purchase a wireless hardware vendor a while back, if not Motorola themselves, who would have not only provided Apple decades of wireless expertise, but captured a future Android OEM.



    On this one, as an avid Apple user (typing this on an iPad), I must side with Motorola.







    QUOTE=AppleInsider;1763131]Apple has amended its lawsuit against Motorola to include 12 more patents, bringing the total count of patents that Apple accuses Motorola of violating to 24, while Motorola alleges that Apple has infringed on 18 of its patents.



    Motorola first sued Apple in October in what many believe was a preemptive move after Apple sued HTC for violation of smartphone patents that the company holds. Motorola and HTC are two of the most prominent makers of Android-based smartphones.



    "We can sit by and watch competitors steal our patented inventions, or we can do something about it," Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs said of his company's case against HTC. "We've decided to do something about it."



    In its suit against Apple, Motorola accused the iPhone maker of refusing to pay a license after "lengthy negotiations." Motorola also claims Apple infringed upon patents relating to technologies that include 3G, GPRS, 802.11 wireless and antenna design.



    After Motorola sued Apple, the Cupertino, Calif., company quickly responded with a countersuit. Last week, the U.S. International Trade Commission announced that it was launching a formal investigation of Motorola in response to Apple's allegations.



    Apple's motion this week to add an additional 12 patents to its lawsuit against Motorola counters a preemptive request filed by Motorola in October for a declaratory judgment that would block Apple from using those patents against Motorola in court. The declaratory judgment references 11 patents that Apple used in its suit against HTC, but had yet to use against Motorola.



    The iPhone maker has requested that Motorola's declaratory judgment case, which was filed in Delaware, be dismissed or moved to Wisconsin, where Apple's suit against Motorola was filed, Electronista reports. Apple argues that since Motorola is already suing Microsoft in Wisconsin, moving the declaratory judgment case there shouldn't be a problem.



    Apple's legal wrangling has made it the "world's most-sued tech company" since 2008 and forced it to expand its legal department. According to a Bloomberg earlier this week, Apple has brought on "some of the nation's top patent lawyers as outside counsel."



    In 2009, 27 patent infringement lawsuits were filed against Apple. According to Apple, responding to those claims, whether valid or not, consumes "significant time and expense."



    [/QUOTE]



    I suppose you haven't noticed the several thousand hardware patents awarded to Apple since 2005, right? They are massive and cover every area of a smartphone.
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigpics View Post


    America is the most litigious society in the world. That's 'cos we got more damn lawyers per square inch than makes any sense. Shakespeare knew. Anyway, check back in with a report when something's decided already.....



    It really bothers me when people misquote Shakespeare.



    He didn't suggest that lawyers should be killed because they're evil. Rather, he suggested that killing the lawyers would be the first step in overthrowing the government. That is, the attorneys were providing an essential service to society.

    http://www.howardnations.com/shakespeare.html



    He was right. Lawyers DO provide an essential service. The fact that some of them are abusive and, more importantly, that some companies abuse the system doesn't change that fact.
  • y.m.s.bushany.m.s.bushan Posts: 54member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    It really bothers me when people misquote Shakespeare.



    He didn't suggest that lawyers should be killed because they're evil. Rather, he suggested that killing the lawyers would be the first step in overthrowing the government. That is, the attorneys were providing an essential service to society.

    http://www.howardnations.com/shakespeare.html



    He was right. Lawyers DO provide an essential service. The fact that some of them are abusive and, more importantly, that some companies abuse the system doesn't change that fact.



    Thank you attorney jragosta !! Especially for your interpretation !!!
  • lilgto64lilgto64 Posts: 1,147member
    Pretty bold move by Motorola to ask for an injunction against Apple bringing evidence to the case that would not be favorable to Motorola's position.
  • suddenly newtonsuddenly newton Posts: 13,079member
    It would it more fun to rewrite the headline as "Apple adds 12 more lawsuits against Motorola"

    It's possibly payback for that lame Moto ROKR phone
  • trevctrevc Posts: 77member
    It's hard to fathom the amount of money consumed by all the law-suits.



    I think I'll ferry my kids into the legal world as it really seems recession proof as not only this world of patents suits doesn't seem to be ending any time soon, and if the economy tanks as it is now, they can make a mint in Family Law.





    I'm guessing these law suits are just a method of forcing a 'deal' between companies as gut feel that they both must have at least one patent that overlaps each other.



    If the Coverflow patent lost Apple $625 million ... how much does 24 patents cost? Wow.
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Y.M.S.BUSHAN View Post


    Thank you attorney jragosta !! Especially for your interpretation !!!



    I'm not an attorney. I just dislike people who mindlessly attack groups simply because they don't like them (or, more frequently, don't even know what they do).
  • asianbobasianbob Posts: 797member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    I'm not an attorney. I just dislike people who mindlessly attack groups simply because they don't like them (or, more frequently, don't even know what they do).



  • sprockketssprockkets Posts: 796member
    Quote:

    The difference, of course, is that Motorola is a signatory to Fair and Non-discriminatory License agreements and is required to license their patents to everyone at the same rate. Apple is not required to license its GUI and other patents to anyone.



    There is no indication of whether or not antenna design or anything else requires FAND licensing.



    Would be nice if they would hurry up and get their stupid "ip" sorted out.
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post


    There is no indication of whether or not antenna design or anything else requires FAND licensing..



    Nor is there any evidence that it doesn't.



    Feel free to study the patents in enough detail to understand them and then look up what FAND licensing covers to form an educated opinion.
  • tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    Without being an expert in the area of patents, you'd be a little silly siding with anybody. The issues are very complex for anybody not directly involved in the matter. Maybe you are such an expert.



    Sure, Motorola has a history of being innovative with various wireless technologies, but not with Graphical User Interfaces used in computing. Motorola is seeking not only to find Apple in violation of it's wireless patents, but also invalidate Apple's GUI related patents.



    Now I am not claiming to be an expert, but I do have a law degree; have studied Intellectual Property (I do not practice it); and I have read the various legal documents.



    The difference between Motorola's patents and Apple's are that Motorola's patents are part of a standards body whereby members provide for use various patents to other members of the body and Apple's patents are not part of any such standards body.



    With a standards body, the goal is to have all the members agree to a particular standard so that everybody doesn't have to spend tremendous resources developing different standards. When a patent is provided to a standards body, the patent is typically granted to be used by all members under fair, reasonable, and undiscriminatory terms. So Motorola gave up some of it's rights under it's patents so that it could get others to agree to using those patents as part of a standard. Otherwise, it would have cost Motorola a lot more to battle it out with other competing technologies.



    Apple and Motorola both belong to the same standard body in which most if not all patents Motorola holds at issue belong. Apple has been using many of these patents for years with no grievance from Motorola.



    Now that Apple is attacking Motorola's core business, Motorola is taking a similar approach as Nokia. Motorola wants Apple to pay more in licensing fees then it does other members. Further, it wants to discriminate against Apple by having Apple grant access to Apple's GUI patents that are not included in the standards body when other members of the standards body are not required to provide access to unrelated patents.



    Once the cases develop further, I may view my change. As of now I side with Apple. Motorola wants to use Apple's patents for free so it can rely on Android without worrying about Apple suing it. Apple probably is willing to pay Motorola licensing fees for it's patents if Motorola is treating Apple the same as all other members of the standards body. For instance, Motorola can't not charge some members, but charge others. I doubt Motorola is doing that.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Oflife View Post


    While Apple have a record of innovation in other areas, if readers check GSMArena and other veteran phone blogs, they will discover how innovative Motorola have been in phone design, not just in wireless, something they are historically renowned for.



    Apple's greatest mistake, (and this is why ALL of their wireless equipped products, including Powerbooks, (some) Macbooks, all iPhone models and the WiFi iPad have a history of flaky wireless performance) was not to purchase a wireless hardware vendor a while back, if not Motorola themselves, who would have not only provided Apple decades of wireless expertise, but captured a future Android OEM.



    On this one, as an avid Apple user (typing this on an iPad), I must side with Motorola.







    QUOTE=AppleInsider;1763131]Apple has amended its lawsuit against Motorola to include 12 more patents, bringing the total count of patents that Apple accuses Motorola of violating to 24, while Motorola alleges that Apple has infringed on 18 of its patents.



    Motorola first sued Apple in October in what many believe was a preemptive move after Apple sued HTC for violation of smartphone patents that the company holds. Motorola and HTC are two of the most prominent makers of Android-based smartphones.



    "We can sit by and watch competitors steal our patented inventions, or we can do something about it," Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs said of his company's case against HTC. "We've decided to do something about it."



    In its suit against Apple, Motorola accused the iPhone maker of refusing to pay a license after "lengthy negotiations." Motorola also claims Apple infringed upon patents relating to technologies that include 3G, GPRS, 802.11 wireless and antenna design.



    After Motorola sued Apple, the Cupertino, Calif., company quickly responded with a countersuit. Last week, the U.S. International Trade Commission announced that it was launching a formal investigation of Motorola in response to Apple's allegations.



    Apple's motion this week to add an additional 12 patents to its lawsuit against Motorola counters a preemptive request filed by Motorola in October for a declaratory judgment that would block Apple from using those patents against Motorola in court. The declaratory judgment references 11 patents that Apple used in its suit against HTC, but had yet to use against Motorola.



    The iPhone maker has requested that Motorola's declaratory judgment case, which was filed in Delaware, be dismissed or moved to Wisconsin, where Apple's suit against Motorola was filed, Electronista reports. Apple argues that since Motorola is already suing Microsoft in Wisconsin, moving the declaratory judgment case there shouldn't be a problem.



    Apple's legal wrangling has made it the "world's most-sued tech company" since 2008 and forced it to expand its legal department. According to a Bloomberg earlier this week, Apple has brought on "some of the nation's top patent lawyers as outside counsel."



    In 2009, 27 patent infringement lawsuits were filed against Apple. According to Apple, responding to those claims, whether valid or not, consumes "significant time and expense."



    [/QUOTE]
  • tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    Should have read your post before I commented. Good observation, and was the point of my post.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    The difference, of course, is that Motorola is a signatory to Fair and Non-discriminatory License agreements and is required to license their patents to everyone at the same rate. Apple is not required to license its GUI and other patents to anyone.



    There were significant rumors that Motorola wanted more money from Apple than anyone else - which would be a violation of their agreement and Apple would not have to sign such a license. The fact that Motorola admits that they had lengthy discussions confirms that.



    If Motorola offered Apple FAND terms, then Apple's answer would have been 'yes' or 'no' - and there would have been no need for lengthy discussions. Even if Apple asked for better terms, Motorola's answer would have been 'no, because we can't do that under our license agreements with others'. The fact that there were lengthy discussions can ONLY be explained by Motorola asking for more from Apple than they get under FAND.



  • hill60hill60 Posts: 6,960member
    Antenna design = put a piece of metal in a field of radio waves.



    Something that has been known about since the 1900's.



    So which of Motorola's patent claims specifically involve "Antenna design"?



    Nokia is using one involving attaching a piece of wire to a metal speaker enclosure so it acts as an antenna.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post


    There is no indication of whether or not antenna design or anything else requires FAND licensing.



    Would be nice if they would hurry up and get their stupid "ip" sorted out.



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