Foxconn explosion won't greatly affect iPad 2 production for Apple

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Comments

  • nhtnht Posts: 3,154member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post


    I might have missed it but did he ever tell us what app he's developing/developed?



    His app is #2 on this list:



    http://tnw.co/lNR2G
  • dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 11,721member, moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by muppetry View Post


    I probably don't spend enough time here to be fully aware of the cause of the friction between magicj and others on this forum but, just considering this isolated issue, I don't think he is being that unreasonable in wanting Apple to take some action.



    If the reports of the extent of the dust problem at this factory are correct, and whether it was aluminum or magnesium (both are easily dispersed and explosive at small particle sizes), this is an obvious and serious hazard. In the US and elsewhere there are clear regulations regarding electrical equipment specifications for such environments to prevent explosions, if the presence of airborne dust cannot be mitigated.



    Even though Foxconn is just a contractor, it would not seem unreasonable to expect Apple, as a major customer, at least to require them to adhere to basic infrastructure safety standards.



    As for all the slavery analogies, I don't think there is any need to go there. Worker conditions are much more a locally defined and subjective standard than plant infrastructure and engineering safety.



    How do we know that Apple isn't taking action. I suspect that Apple is investigating the cause and possible solutions -- rather than making a meaningless knee-jerk PR reply.



    Apple is usually quiet about assistance it provides to others -- for obvious reasons!



    Sometimes, though, it will publicize its assistance in order to encourage others to do the same.



    Just because Apple isn't talking about something doesn't mean that Apple isn't doing something!



    Many corporations act the same -- and it's driven by the morals, ethics, and business acumen of their leadership.
  • matrix07matrix07 Posts: 1,993member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nht View Post


    His app is #2 on this list:



    http://tnw.co/lNR2G



    I doubt he has that kind of humor.
  • muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    How do we know that Apple isn't taking action. I suspect that Apple is investigating the cause and possible solutions -- rather than making a meaningless knee-jerk PR reply.



    Apple is usually quiet about assistance it provides to others -- for obvious reasons!



    Sometimes, though, it will publicize its assistance in order to encourage others to do the same.



    Just because Apple isn't talking about something doesn't mean that Apple isn't doing something!



    Many corporations act the same -- and it's driven by the morals, ethics, and business acumen of their leadership.



    I agree - I think it is likely that Apple is working on this. I was really questioning why the widespread response to magicj's post seemed to be to suggest that this was not something that Apple had any responsibility to address.
  • onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    How do we know that Apple isn't taking action. I suspect that Apple is investigating the cause and possible solutions -- rather than making a meaningless knee-jerk PR reply.



    Apple is usually quiet about assistance it provides to others -- for obvious reasons!



    Sometimes, though, it will publicize its assistance in order to encourage others to do the same.



    Just because Apple isn't talking about something doesn't mean that Apple isn't doing something!



    Many corporations act the same -- and it's driven by the morals, ethics, and business acumen of their leadership.



    Apple is:



    Apple Says Working With Foxconn to Explore Cause of China Explosion http://allthingsd.com/20110520/apple...ina-explosion/



    Apple: Supplier Code of Conduct http://images.apple.com/supplierresp...nduct_V3_3.pdf



    Apple: Supplier Responsibility http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/



    Apple: Auditing for Compliance http://www.apple.com/supplierrespons...ompliance.html



    Apple: Beyond Compliance http://www.apple.com/supplierrespons...ompliance.html



    Apple: Supplier Responsibility 2011 Progress Report http://images.apple.com/supplierresp...ess_Report.pdf





    And has been doing so for some time now:
  • galbigalbi Posts: 968member
    Apple insider writes a report about iPad 2's production forecasts but nothing about the 3rd worker who died from injuries?



    Yeah, because workers who die in the factories are a normal business expense right?



    Pathetic.



    http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/22/f...r-watchdog-re/



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Onhka View Post


    Apple is:



    Apple Says Working With Foxconn to Explore Cause of China Explosion http://allthingsd.com/20110520/apple...ina-explosion/



    Apple: Supplier Code of Conduct http://images.apple.com/supplierresp...nduct_V3_3.pdf



    Apple: Supplier Responsibility http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/



    Apple: Auditing for Compliance http://www.apple.com/supplierrespons...ompliance.html



    Apple: Beyond Compliance http://www.apple.com/supplierrespons...ompliance.html



    Apple: Supplier Responsibility 2011 Progress Report http://images.apple.com/supplierresp...ess_Report.pdf





    And has been doing so for some time now:




    Simply writing a report about a third parties status is one thing, actually doing something about it is something completely different.



    Law makers and scientists always write reports about the status of Global Warming in their reports to congress and other institutions. You think they are doing anything about it? The answer is no.



    The only way that Apple will have a vested interest in its third party OEM's affair would be if the factories are based in USA and are Apple owned. Only then will Apple (due to strict labor laws and occupational health and hazards standards in the US) act upon its responsibilities.
  • galbigalbi Posts: 968member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GotWake View Post


    What amazes me is "Apple" needs to do something. Because this is part of Foxconn's customer list.



    Apple Inc.

    Acer

    Amazon

    Asus

    Intel

    Cisco

    Hewlett-Packard

    Dell

    Nintendo

    Nokia

    Microsoft

    Sony

    Sony Ericsson

    Samsung

    Vizio



    That list is from Wikipedia, a user editable online encyclopedia of "knowledge" or so they say.



    The problem is they are USER EDITABLE, as in false representation or facts are bound to happen. Some of the companies on that list arent even Foxconn customer. If they are, the link doesnt provide unquestionable proof of its status.
  • muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Galbi View Post


    That list is from Wikipedia, a user editable online encyclopedia of "knowledge" or so they say.



    The problem is they are USER EDITABLE, as in false representation or facts are bound to happen. Some of the companies on that list arent even Foxconn customer. If they are, the link doesnt provide unquestionable proof of its status.



    I don't think that list was posted as a complete, verifiable, unquestionable work of reference, just as an indication that Foxconn has a number of large customers besides Apple.
  • ruel24ruel24 Posts: 432member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by magicj View Post


    LOL! Three dead, many seriously injured, but we will still have our shiny gizmos.



    I'm glad Apple has at least acknowledged that problems exist at the Foxconn plant they use, but they need to do more to correct those problems. And they need to start now.



    I agree. I guess money is more important?
  • ruel24ruel24 Posts: 432member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Galbi View Post


    Law makers and scientists always write reports about the status of Global Warming in their reports to congress and other institutions. You think they are doing anything about it? The answer is no.



    Nice to put something completely off-topic into the mix. The big difference is that global warming is still unproven beyond a shadow of a doubt and still debated heavily. Human life is not. People are dying and working in unthinkable conditions so we can enjoy cheap gadgets. It's nice how we can just look past that thought.
  • onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Galbi View Post


    Apple insider writes a report about iPad 2's production forecasts but nothing about the 3rd worker who died from injuries?



    Yeah, because workers who die in the factories are a normal business expense right?



    Pathetic.



    What is pathetic is having to see your name appear.



    Read the friggin reports or at least a qualified reviewers take on it, i.e., Apple's 2011 supplier report: child workers, bribes, "involuntary labor" http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...d-business.ars
  • vvswarupvvswarup Posts: 319member
    Wilt Chamberlain had it right: "No one roots for Goliath."



    Back in the day, everyone hated on Microsoft. Microsoft was Goliath. It threw its weight around. Everybody else was a little guy trying his hardest to take down the big, bad Goliath. Apple has become that company now. It has gotten so big and successful that everything it does is "mean, unfair, and anticompetitive," never mind that everybody else is doing the same stuff.



    Foxconn has plenty of customers besides Apple. Yet, any article criticizing Foxconn business practices is always linked to Apple. Look on Yahoo!. The news story is titled "Explosion at China iPad factory shows supply risks." The article does not make a single mention of other Foxconn customers. Readers get the impression that Foxconn is an Apple subsidiary. That's why every thing that goes wrong at Foxconn gets blamed on Apple.



    At the end of the day, these news sites wants hits. As long as that is the case, accurate reporting is not going to matter. When journalists publish news stories about Apple's suppliers, or Apple in general, they don't care if they are applying a double-standard. The reason is simple. Stories that criticize Apple get hits but stories that criticize other companies don't.



    As long as there are rational individuals who care to calmly analyze the situation before passing judgment, these kinds of sensationalist stories don't bother me much. I know that some people are going to call me an Apple apologist. I have been called that before, saying that I "gloss over" every little thing that Apple does because it's Apple. But I can say with my head held high that I don't apply double standards. I don't apply one set of rules for Apple and another set of rules for everybody else. If I defend something that Apple does which others criticize, I will be the first one to do the same for any other company.
  • nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by magicj View Post


    Hardly true. I only vilify them when they don't inform customers that their private data has been stolen, when they sell developers access to APIs that can't be used due to patent disputes, and when they financially reward manufactures with a long history of serious abuses against their employees. And for their 800+ fart apps.



    You, on the other hand, will defend Apple in the face of these abuses, which are so bad that even American slaves never had to tolerate anything like it. And before you argue this point with me, show me a reference where American slaves were exposed to hazardous chemicals and forced to breathe aluminum every day.



    I think you've been listening a little too much to Cave Johnson.



    Seriously though, Apple needs to quit taking on this burden with Foxconn themselves. They should use their might and influence to form some sort of alliance with the other major clients eg HP and so on to negotiate and audit what's happening in the factories.



    What is magic is the lack of mention of all of the other Foxconn customers... I bet you they're just happy there's very little mention of them. As they continue to churn out massive amounts of plastic crap.



    Yes, hold Apple accountable... But to be fair let's not forget the other major companies involved.
  • gotwakegotwake Posts: 111member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


    No Apple isn't the only company Foxconn does business with but I'm sure Apple is its biggest customer. Btw who's anyone? And how do you know there's problems at EVERY plant? Are you assuming that because one factory is f'd up to work in then they all must be?



    This is what makes it fun. I guess I don't know if EVERY plant has troubles, BUT I guess you haven't been seeing articles about suicides last year or work conditions in China. Do a google search sometime.
  • gotwakegotwake Posts: 111member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Galbi View Post


    That list is from Wikipedia, a user editable online encyclopedia of "knowledge" or so they say.



    The problem is they are USER EDITABLE, as in false representation or facts are bound to happen. Some of the companies on that list arent even Foxconn customer. If they are, the link doesnt provide unquestionable proof of its status.



    Absolutely, but



    Sony and Nokia

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-20006316-260.html



    Acer

    http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...s-quarter.html



    Apple, Dell and HP

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-20006010-260.html



    My point is Foxconn has many big name customers besides Apple.
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