With more than $70B in cash, Apple could buy Nokia, RIM, HTC & Motorola

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  • stelligentstelligent Posts: 2,680member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    Apple has created plenty of jobs in the US. Most of them are pretty high-paying, high-tech jobs. This fetish over manufacturing jobs baffles me.



    Actually, every successful Apple product creates more jobs overseas than it does in the US. Andy Grove wrote about this 1 year ago and challenged American companies to build in America: http://bit.ly/jB6Sbz
  • sockrolidsockrolid Posts: 2,712member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post


    [...] I'd like to see Apple acquire ARM Holdings.



    Me too z3r0. ARM Holdings' market cap is less than $7.5 billion now. That's a huge amount of money in one sense, considering Apple only paid $278 million for PA Semi. But ARM-based designs are crucial to Apple now (and presumably in the long term) so it's a steal. And $7.5 billion for ARM would be a far better investment than say, $8.5 billion for Skype. (Just couldn't resist that one.)



    http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=ARM.L
  • mrstepmrstep Posts: 446member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BrooksT View Post


    It's a noble sentiment, but can you walk me through how that would work? Would Apple accept a loss on every product sold where now they have a profit, and burn through their cash reserves that way? Or would they raise prices to some kind of breakeven point and lose sales and market share?



    It seems like you're basically suggesting that they operate as a charity, accepting losses for social good. If that's what you're after, why all the complexity of moving production and losing money (and tanking the share price)? Why not just suggest they give money away outright?



    Really? So you figure that manufacturing in the US would have cost them 70 billion over the last decade? I don't have their production costs, but looking at how Jobs set up the NeXT manufacturing, I'm not sure I buy that they'd have to fold up shop and just give away their money. They have huge margins, huge cash reserves, and it's not because they manufacture in China, it's because they make better products.



    I buy your argument for commodity manufacturing companies, but that's about the last thing that Apple is or wants to be.
  • asciiascii Posts: 5,363member
    You can't create a monopoly by buying out your competitors. All that happens is new competitors enter the market.



    I would like to see Apple enter some completely new markets. I think they could use their Apple Store experience + tech knowhow to create a chain of private schools. Or they could move in to medical technology, with an eye to integrating an iOS device with the human body.
  • lecorsairelecorsaire Posts: 11member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by techno View Post


    Or they could manufacture their products in the US and create some jobs.



    Why? Do the Americans work harder? or better? or cheaper? Or you want Apple be run like a charity?
  • bdkennedy1bdkennedy1 Posts: 1,459member
    Apple doesn't need to buy any of those companies because they aren't any threat. It would be a waste of money.



    The next step will be creating their own processor architectures or buying Intel.
  • eglasheeneglasheen Posts: 43member
    Where other companies fail by concentrating on accusations, Apple is excelling in innovation. There is no need to buy old, tired companies.



    Would like to see Apple develop applications so I can dump Adobe i.e. Photoshop and Illustrator.



    Microsoft is fragmented. If the PC market continues to dip, Microsoft will fire Balmer.
  • cvaldes1831cvaldes1831 Posts: 1,832member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    Apple has created plenty of jobs in the US. Most of them are pretty high-paying, high-tech jobs. This fetish over manufacturing jobs baffles me.



    In fact one of the biggest reasons for Apple's turnaround was the Tim Cook's decision to get out of manufacturing.



    Apple has indeed created many jobs here in the United States although the majority of the growth in headcount these past few years have been in the retail sales division, not in engineering.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrstep View Post


    I think the fetish is about having jobs beyond flipping burgers and greeters at Walmart for people that aren't qualified (or capable) for jobs in high-tech or, as our former illustrious leader often liked to speak about, bio-tech. Look at our current trade deficits (some of which looks worse because of accounting practices, but which is still truly horrific), tax-base problems, currency issues, and it makes perfect sense to have a bit of a fetish to actually improve the US economy, particularly when corporate profits are up dramatically in the past decade while real income for workers over the past 20 years has stagnated or fallen.



    I understand the 'well, they had to push it overseas because otherwise they couldn't compete', but they happen to have $70 billion in the bank that says they could compete just fine even if they only had $50 billion in the bank as a result.



    If you really want more manufacturing in the US, then lobby for more employment deregulation, including any special legal privileges granted to unions.



    But, in the end, this is the dynamic that happens. There are a wide array of jobs in the US that don't fall into the categories of "flipping burgers" (which are entry level jobs for teenagers) and high-tech doctorate jobs in hi-tech and bio-tech. Most of the people I work with are all pretty middle class. We all earn middle class wage and live in middle class homes. None of us manufacture anything. There are also tons of people working in manufacturing in the US, they are just manufacturing much higher value things than the stuff we outsource to places like China and Malaysia.



    What we need is for the government to get out of the way of business and the economy will grow and create tons of jobs. But most of these will not be the jobs from yesteryear...and that's probably going to be okay.
  • bdkennedy1bdkennedy1 Posts: 1,459member
    If that happened you would see the prices of your favorite Apple products double, unless you can find Americans that will be willing to work 60 hours a week below minimum wage.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by techno View Post


    Or they could manufacture their products in the US and create some jobs.



  • guch20guch20 Posts: 173member
    They should just buy Samsung, fire everyone, and set their corporate headquarters ablaze. Then at the next WWDC, Jobs could show slides onstage and say they'll do the same to any other company that decides to duplicate rather than innovate.
  • mrstepmrstep Posts: 446member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jumpmaster View Post


    It would also reduce higher skilled jobs because Apple products would get even more expensive, and fewer people would buy them. Apple would then have to lay off people working in the US. It may be a net increase in job creation, but it's questionable whether the US would be better off for it (tax revenue, productivity value, etc)



    BTW, there are lots of jobs out there. It's just that people are unwilling to do them. How many unemployed people are willing to be janitors or field workers because it is beneath them, or their skillset is too high?



    Why do you assume the products would get more expensive? You don't think profit margins could be slightly reduced and that the company would be just fine? I'm not singling Apple out here, btw., if you're going to buy a computer it may as well be theirs given that everyone manufactures overseas, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be nice if the sticker said 'Designed and Manufactured by Apple in the USA'.



    As for jobs, maybe because they don't speak Spanish and can't compete with un-insured illegals? I know the summer job I did years ago cleaning pools is likely done by a crew of people here illegally at this point, as seems to be manning the fast-food drive throughs. And that's for people looking for summer / after-school type jobs. And our government has pushed to move higher skilled jobs overseas where possible too.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stelligent View Post


    Actually, every successful Apple product creates more jobs overseas than it does in the US. Andy Grove wrote about this 1 year ago and challenged American companies to build in America: http://bit.ly/jB6Sbz



    Good for those in those other countries! Apple is helping people in those other countries as well as people in the US!
  • acslater017acslater017 Posts: 424member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by techno View Post


    Or they could manufacture their products in the US and create some jobs.



    If you think Apple products are expensive now, wait til they're built in the US, with wages 5x or 10x that of China...
  • guch20guch20 Posts: 173member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post




    What we need is for the government to get out of the way of business and the economy will grow and create tons of jobs. But most of these will not be the jobs from yesteryear...and that's probably going to be okay.



    Yeah, let business run wild since they obviously have American's best interests at heart.
  • mrstepmrstep Posts: 446member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post


    If that happened you would see the prices of your favorite Apple products double, unless you can find Americans that will be willing to work 60 hours a week below minimum wage.



    I'm really curious - how much of the cost of the products is the assembly, and would it really double the price? Are there actual numbers you're referencing to come up with that?
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by guch20 View Post


    Yeah, let business run wild since they obviously have American's best interests at heart.



  • mrstepmrstep Posts: 446member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by guch20 View Post


    Yeah, let business run wild since they obviously have American's best interests at heart.



    Exactly. LOL.



    Well, actually not a laughing matter given that no multinational company whose primary goal is to boost share prices is out to improve the US. And given the huge amounts of money involved and Supreme Court rulings letting companies buy politicians, it's no shock that we're seeing the massive systemic economic problems that we have.



    On the other hand, if our goal is to be a 2nd world or 3rd world debtor nation at some point, we're on a pretty good path.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrstep View Post


    Why do you assume the products would get more expensive? You don't think profit margins could be slightly reduced and that the company would be just fine?



    That won't happen.
  • asdasdasdasd Posts: 4,397member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrstep View Post


    Really? So you figure that manufacturing in the US would have cost them 70 billion over the last decade? I don't have their production costs, but looking at how Jobs set up the NeXT manufacturing, I'm not sure I buy that they'd have to fold up shop and just give away their money. They have huge margins, huge cash reserves, and it's not because they manufacture in China, it's because they make better products.



    I buy your argument for commodity manufacturing companies, but that's about the last thing that Apple is or wants to be.



    FoxConn is just an assembly plant. The LCD plants are all in Asia, as are all the other components. Are you saying they replace FoxCNN as an assembly plant in the US - not really skilled - or that they replace the entire channel with their own factories all the way back.



    not going to happen. I think that if American jobs are to come "home' Governments in the West have to force the issue with protectionist measures. Even that would collapse the economy for while. It is a problem, but there are no solutions.
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