Microsoft exec says PC 'not even middle-aged,' rejects post-PC label

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  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 39,470member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post


    Apple and Jobs will be in the history books for what they have done.



    Creating and destroying the personal computer in one lifetime.



    That's up there with Special Relativity, electricity, and penicillin.
  • mkunertmkunert Posts: 11member
    If we accept the "truck versus cars" analogy, then Apple maybe shooting themselves in the foot. With iPads becoming the tools of consumers and light weight users, then desktop computers become th domain of professionals. Yet on the professional front, Apple is pushing away customers. Look what happened with the fiasco that is Final Cut Pro. Editors, post houses, and film schools are now heading back to avid (ugh) or Adobe. And if you're using those two options, then why not just buy a cheaper window based machine. I know people in the audio business are looking at logic audio and wondering... Are we going to be screwed next. As for Aperture, what a buggy mess and will it's next iteration be IPhoto Pro?



    So a slow shift back to PC's may be brewing. Apple builds trucks, but not the cheapest and with out the dedicated software, not the best.



    My 2 cents.
  • quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,485member
    Of course they'll say this. Everything for MS depends on Windows shipping on PeeCees. They don't make hardware. Everything depends on their Windows licensing racket.



    PC sales are stagnant (except when it comes to Apple.)



    HP seems to understand the situation perfectly.



    MS will deny and and all Post-PC realities until they too enter with their own Post-PC devices, and then a short time later do a Zune-like "reset" because once again they got it all wrong.



    The only thing getting "rejected" here are Apple's competitors. It looks increasingly like the Post-PC era will be all Apple. Which of course posits massive growth for Apple. Watch for it.
  • daylove22daylove22 Posts: 215member
    Reality does not apply for Microsoft..they just live in fantasy land along with Blackberry fans
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 39,470member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mKunert View Post


    Are we going to be screwed next.



    Apple's still on the bleeding edge of tech. On which side of the knife they fall depends on what they do with the next Mac Pro update.



    Hardware update, no physical changes = still teetering on the edge.



    Hardware update, physical changes to make it smaller/less expansion = It's over for Apple in ten years.



    Hardware update, becomes the device everyone wants = falls off on the right edge, Apple keeps sailing.



    Discontinued = It's over in two years.
  • nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Creating and destroying the personal computer in one lifetime.



    That's up there with Special Relativity, electricity, and penicillin.



    I sure hope people will remember him as such. Watch the movie Hackers (1995) again for kicks. Compare where they thought tech would be with where we are now. Where we are now would not be possible without Steve Jobs and Apple. Windows and Android would not be what it is without Apple.
  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,026member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Of course they'll say this. Everything for MS depends on Windows shipping on PeeCees. They don't make hardware. Everything depends on their Windows licensing racket.



    PC sales are stagnant (except when it comes to Apple.)



    HP seems to understand the situation perfectly.



    MS will deny and and all Post-PC realities until they too enter with their own Post-PC devices, and then a short time later do a Zune-like "reset" because once again they got it all wrong.



    The only thing getting "rejected" here are Apple's competitors. It looks increasingly like the Post-PC era will be all Apple. Which of course posits massive growth for Apple. Watch for it.



    Exactly right.



    What Apple haters don't get is Apple will continue with Macs successfully into the post PC era while traditional Windoze boxes die off as with HP. The reason is continued innovation in both hardware and software something the Dells of this World don't know how to do and certainly their chosen OS won't deliver. Macs will morph into something else over time for sure though.
  • rp2011rp2011 Posts: 159member
    When company execs come out say such contradictory to reality statements such as this, it causes stockholders to panic. Reminds me of something the RIM heads would say.



    I know it is their fiduciary duty to reassure their stockholders, but when it comes off as blatant pandering, people start dropping the stock like the plague.
  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,026member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Creating and destroying the personal computer in one lifetime.



    That's up there with Special Relativity, electricity, and penicillin.



    Read with fake oriental accent ... Ah, grasshopper, Steve will not destroy, rather guide it onto its next plain of existence.
  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,026member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by daylove22 View Post


    Reality does not apply for Microsoft..they just live in fantasy land along with Blackberry fans



    Lemmings come to mind.
  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,026member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by poke View Post


    Personally I think tablets will eventually replace PCs completely. Here's some bullet points:



    - Anything a tablet can't do now because it doesn't have the CPU/GPU power, just wait until the next version. Eventually it'll be able to do it. The performance gap between tablet and laptop performance will close too, just like it has between desktop and laptop. Very few people need to choose a workstation over a laptop today.



    - Touch is a superior interface to the mouse/trackpad. Touch is direct, the mouse/trackpad is indirect.



    - The whole physical keyboard thing is totally overblown. Most people don't type much. This has gotten a lot of press because the press happen to be a subset of the population who need to type a lot, fast. People got by with handwriting for centuries before keyboards became ubiquitous (and typing only really became ubiquitous with the PC and most people still can't do it very well). You can always add a bluetooth keyboard for when you're typing that novel anyway.



    - They can make bigger tablets. Tablets could be paired with large external displays. Etc. There are a lot of ways to accommodate professionals.



    - Most professionals I know maximise all their apps anyway. Not sure windows are really the incredible productivity feature people think they are.



    - Programming isn't inherently tied to typing in code. In fact, that's a pretty bad way to do it.



    Spot on. I really think we will see an iPad pro in the future that is far larger as productivity apps get more sophisticated. The iPad is currently on par with the Mac 512 and has a long way more to go.
  • bsenkabsenka Posts: 771member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by poke View Post


    Personally I think tablets will eventually replace PCs completely. Here's some bullet points:



    - Anything a tablet can't do now because it doesn't have the CPU/GPU power, just wait until the next version. Eventually it'll be able to do it. The performance gap between tablet and laptop performance will close too, just like it has between desktop and laptop. Very few people need to choose a workstation over a laptop today.



    - Touch is a superior interface to the mouse/trackpad. Touch is direct, the mouse/trackpad is indirect.



    - The whole physical keyboard thing is totally overblown. Most people don't type much. This has gotten a lot of press because the press happen to be a subset of the population who need to type a lot, fast. People got by with handwriting for centuries before keyboards became ubiquitous (and typing only really became ubiquitous with the PC and most people still can't do it very well). You can always add a bluetooth keyboard for when you're typing that novel anyway.



    - They can make bigger tablets. Tablets could be paired with large external displays. Etc. There are a lot of ways to accommodate professionals.



    - Most professionals I know maximise all their apps anyway. Not sure windows are really the incredible productivity feature people think they are.



    - Programming isn't inherently tied to typing in code. In fact, that's a pretty bad way to do it.



    I think that really depends on who that user is. Someone who already loves their iPad and doesn't seem to use their desktop or laptop much because of it, probably was never really using their computer for things much of substance.



    For a lot of people who do actual pay-the-bills work on their computer, the iPad is of no use whatsoever. I'm in the latter camp. My iPad is a really fun toy, but it is not even remotely capable of doing any of my work.
  • bageljoeybageljoey Posts: 1,719member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post




    saying that the ipad replaces a PC is like saying that the neck tie replaces the button up shirt...it does not replace it -- it complements it.



    This is a very bad analogy. Millions of users out there need only an iPad or "post-PC" device for what they do right now. Sure, people who make a living using computers and hobbyists and tinkerers need "PCs," but it is certainly not as simple as a tie VS a shirt for many consumers...

    Furthermore, the capabilities of the post-PC devices seem to be advancing very rapidly. In a few years, who is to say that the hobbyists and tinkerers won't be happy with an iPad7GS or an Android tablet running Twizler as well?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    The Apple fanboys here and at sites like this one all seem to miss the fact that the iPad is just a toy when talking about teh post PC era...sure, it kicks the PCs ass when playing angery birds and watching reruns of House on hulu - but practical PRODUCTIVE usage is limited.



    You seem to be (intentionally?) forgetting the main analogy Jobs uses when defining the term "post-PC." For serious, productive use, there will always need to be PCs just like for farm and construction work there will always need to be trucks. And yes, I know it gets the Apple haters in a twist, but Macs are a growing number of the post-PC PCs.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post




    IOS is a walled garden and they never last, look at Prodigy, AOL, Friendster, and lately RIM, all walled gardens and all collapsed and collapsing...



    Yeah, but they all sucked. Good riddance. Nintendo, Xbox and iOS are all walled gardens and doing fairly well...
  • applelover2applelover2 Posts: 293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drwatz0n View Post


    Sure, for Mom and Pop who just browse the internet and email with others, a tablet may fit the bill. But you can't discount hundreds of millions of machines being used for work other than the basics of computing; sure, maybe in twenty years things will be different, but the traditional PC won't be going anywhere anytime soon.





    Apple has never concentrated on the enterprise, and the uses you cite are becoming niche. That is why Apple is now a portable device company, and the last I checked, they are doing just fine.



    You talk down Mom and Pop, but they are Apples' bread and butter. With the iPod, the iPhone, and now the iPad, Apple is making the computers that the vast majority of people use. "Work other than the basics of computing" is a commodity business, and not the profitable sweet spot.



    The PC is dead as a mainstream device. The iPad killed the netbook, and it is starting to kill the cheap crappy laptop market. Who wants a big clunky beige box? I suppose if you are some sort of big-time spreadsheet number cruncher, but those guys spend as little as possible to get the job done, which means buying Windows machines while giving little or no profits to the clone makers.



    Apple is very smart to ignore that market and concentrate on the iPad.
  • applelover2applelover2 Posts: 293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    ... produce usefull data visualizations with large sets ...



    Yeah. Like there's a big profitable market for machines that can do that. Not.





    Here's a clue: HP went after that market, and we all know what happened to them. Dell is next. They sell lots of crap, but they make no money. Big hat, No Cattle.
  • sheffsheff Posts: 1,407member
    I think we will see more and more people go tablet only pretty soon. Laptops will stay home more and more, as tablets travel with us more and more.



    iPad / mac integration really stands to gain from this because you can start a garage band or iMovie project on the tablet, and seamlessly sync it to the Mac when you get home from filming and doing minor edits to do the final editing and mastering. That type of integration no other company can offer.



    Google's OS is good for phones / devices you don't really want to sync to your PC. Its really quite separate from it. So it will never provide the type of integration mentioned above.



    Microsoft's vision of tablet being a PC does not work, because you can't have the same UI in both, and it will be quite some time before both can run on the same chip architechture without sacrificing performance on PC and battery life on Tablet. So if you have to have different UI, why not customize the underlying OS, strip away support for all the stuff that won't be used, like CD drive etc and optimize each OS for what it will be used for.



    I think this is why HP bought webOS, but in the end they realized they could not build a desktop version of OS quickly or cheaply enough so they gave up.



    Plus iOS is a unix-like OS based on darwin kernel and very similar userland that runs natively on the hardware. No Java, no Silverlight, no BS. That means iOS does not need a dual core CPU to run smoothly. It does not need to run a virtual machine on top of linux, it is unix. So I feel that it is the best platform going forward, and the vision apple had from the start is really the smartest in the industry, which will help it in the long run.
  • apple ][apple ][ Posts: 7,528member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    The iPad is currently on par with the Mac 512 and has a long way more to go.



    The iPad is many, many times more powerful than a Mac 512.



    An iPad 2 is on par with machines like a PowerBook G4 1.5 GHz, going by Geekbench.
  • bigdaddyguidobigdaddyguido Posts: 93member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


    I think that really depends on who that user is. Someone who already loves their iPad and doesn't seem to use their desktop or laptop much because of it, probably was never really using their computer for things much of substance.



    For a lot of people who do actual pay-the-bills work on their computer, the iPad is of no use whatsoever. I'm in the latter camp. My iPad is a really fun toy, but it is not even remotely capable of doing any of my work.



    But the current iPad is just an infant. Think back on the apple II e, it couldn't do any of the things you now consider "work". The iPad has lots of room to grow, and differentiate, and wildly proclaiming that no tablet will ever be suitable for "paying-the-bills work" says very little for your recognition of just how much technology is going to grow over the next 5, 10 and 50 years.
  • iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,395member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    The iPad is many, many times more powerful than a Mac 512.



    An iPad 2 is on par with machines like a PowerBook G4 1.5 GHz, going by Geekbench.



    I think digitalclips was using a figurative comparison.
  • suddenly newtonsuddenly newton Posts: 12,933member
    Snowboarding. Radical dude. Oh, I think I'm going to trade in my iPad for a corporate HP PC, because I want to look cool, young, and hip.
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