Adobe releases Photoshop, Premiere Elements 10 on Apple's Mac App Store

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  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 39,487member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac: an Endangered Species View Post


    Only post



    You want to whine about the death of the Mac Pro, we have a thread for that already.
  • bettiebluebettieblue Posts: 294member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac: an Endangered Species View Post


    As a longtime Creative Pro, I have bought nearly EVERY new »»»OPEN««« Mac model, beginning with the Macintosh IIx, my first Mac.



    (If Jean Louis Gassée did anything right, he fought internally at Apple for a Mac with "slots," and even had a vanity license plate on his car that read: OPENMAC. Then he finally got his way with the Macintosh II.)



    It is a fait accompli: Apple is going to kill the Mac Pro and release the iMac Pro (which will exist only temporarily -- kind of like Rosetta). (They'll just need to convince Pros that it is indeed a Pro machine and convince consumers that the regular "iMac" is a Consumer machine -- if they can have it both ways.)



    Meanwhile, for Pro software that appears on the segregated, "separate-but-equal" Mac App Store (much the easier to kill when the time comes than if it were integrated into iTunes/App Store), I'll be buying from the ISVs themselves or elsewhere -- NOT Apple.



    Oh, I'll still buy the occasional Pixelmator and like to support small developers and encourage greedy, monopolistic software makers to slash their exorbitant prices, but Adobe's and Autodesk's sales will increase at the expense of whatever cut Apple gets when a high-priced Pro app or suite like theirs' is bought via Apple.



    Counterproductive you ask?



    Mac App Store sales drop and that gives more reason the kill the Mac, let alone the Mac Pro?



    Again, the death of the Mac that has eight RAM slots for up to 96GB RAM, four storage device bays for up to 12TB of internal storage, RAID support, three PCI slots, upgradeable Graphics Card, two optical drive bays and ample connection ports (they can fit more on a machine with a larger form factor. That's why the 17" MacBook Pro has three USB 2.0 ports and the 17- and 13-inch models have only two) -- namely, the Mac Pro is a fait accompli.



    Next comes the death of the Mac altogether (and with it only one of the most recognized brand names in the world, worth billions in equity).



    The first shoe to drop will be the MacBook Air, which Apple will give "The Apple TV Treatment" to -- iOS on an ARM variant (and probably be renamed with "Mac" removed).



    Then, up the chain it goes until there is only a single computing platform. GUESS WHICH ONE!



    Apple has a bedraggled track record when it comes to amicable partnership dissolutions. It was GTH Motorola. GTH IBM. And when the platform is 100% ARM-based, it will be GTH Intel, too. Keep burnin' them bridges, now.



    The "Back to the Mac" event was a placating, perfunctory (kind of like "bag of hurt" charade) 85 minute prelude to the biggest news of the event: the last 5 minutes when they unveiled -- YOU GUESSED IT -- a new MacBook Air! -- 'what we see as the future of computing' Apple is on record saying.



    Oh, and all demos of Lion at WWDC were done on MacBook Airs. No other Mac was worthy.



    I don't know about any other Creative Pros, but I can't see myself experimenting a lot with different Maya transforms or Photoshop filters on a "dumb" "client" device with almost no memory or storage, inextricably tethered to the great "Cloud in the Sky" (which, behind the curtain, is a lot of "Heavy Servers on the Ground").



    Larry Ellison used to repeat the mantra, "The network is the computer." Then he bought Sun.



    It can be both!!! REALLY!



    You can have machines equipped to run certain software better using "local" resources (storage, RAM, GPGPU, etc.) and you can have "thin" client devices COHABITATING! (Imagine!)



    There can be the bath water AAAAAAAND the baby.



    (Most Pro users I know have a Mac Pro and a MacBook Pro -- AT THE SAME TIME! Although I can't prove it as I've never seen both at once -- except in my own case.)



    Why Apple would rather sell me an iOS device alone instead of having me buy an expensive tower Mac PLUS a notebook Mac PLUS an iPad PLUS and iPhone -- and a perpetual stream of revenue from their respective "Apps Stores" is beyond me.



    P.S. Did you know the MacBook Air does not come with an Ethernet port?



    P.P.S. If you doubt the thought that the Mac platform has no future, just look at the paucity of non-user-facing, or "under the hood" changes to Lion -- four years after Leopard. Resources need to be allocated at at company after all.



    P.P.P.S. Please, oh please, God, don't force me to use Windows. : ( I've got to live down here!



    One word "freak". Conspiracy theory much?



    Mac Pro will probably die. If I were Apple and the sales were low I would kill it as well. The advancment in CPU technology is killing the Mac Pro. A 3.4 ghz i7 based iMac with 16gigs of RAM fufilles the requirements of 99% of Mac Pro users and at a cheaper price.



    Thunderbolt (dual ports) can provide all the storage you will ever need, and at 10gig, and you never have to crack the case again to upgrade it. Daisy chain a few more monitors off it if you need it.



    I think all Macbooks will be AIR like, that is slim 15inch models soon. Nothing wrong only selling the models that actually sell.
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 39,487member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post


    10gig, and you never have to crack the case again to upgrade it.



    When the iMac can bench twice the current Mac Pro and can have 196GB of RAM, then they can kill the Mac Pro.



    Until then, we need it. The Mac Pro is a workstation, not a desktop. The iMac can't really replace it.
  • mrstepmrstep Posts: 446member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac: an Endangered Species View Post


    (Most Pro users I know have a Mac Pro and a MacBook Pro -- AT THE SAME TIME! Although I can't prove it as I've never seen both at once -- except in my own case.)



    Hmmm, I found that the Mac Pro + MacBook Air 11 (i7) is the perfect combo. Real heavy work at the desk or with Back to My Mac, but ultimate portability and enough horsepower for some Xcode / Photoshop / 3 modeling (if not large texture baking) to go.



    Quote:

    P.S. Did you know the MacBook Air does not come with an Ethernet port?



    Yep, that port would have made the Air thicker - and for the 1 time I wanted to use wired, I'll live. You can always pick up the adapter if you care.



    Quote:

    P.P.S. If you doubt the thought that the Mac platform has no future, just look at the paucity of non-user-facing, or "under the hood" changes to Lion -- four years after Leopard. Resources need to be allocated at at company after all.



    Snow Leopard had a ton of under the hood changes (amongst others Blocks and GCD). Lion less so from what I've seen, but it hasn't been 4 years since significant MP/MT improvements. Of course, if the Pro apps & machine are being sidelined over time, that will pretty much be a tech that ends up used for multi-core portable devices instead of real heavy lifting...



    Quote:

    P.P.P.S. Please, oh please, God, don't force me to use Windows. : ( I've got to live down here!



    I definitely agree there, though after trying the Windows 8 beta, I have the feeling Apple could reduce their entire lineup to the 20" iMac and I'd still rather use that than move to the next fine Microsoft OS. If you want to see what a real disaster looks like, fire it up! \
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    When the iMac can bench twice the current Mac Pro and can have 196GB of RAM, then they can kill the Mac Pro.



    Until then, we need it. The Mac Pro is a workstation, not a desktop. The iMac can't really replace it.



    Tallest Skil:



    I would refer you to this post.
  • xian zhu xuandexian zhu xuande Posts: 801member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post


    Adobe is smart to release consumer-grade software for the Mac. The Pro market is slowly but surely being abandoned by Apple.



    1) Adobe has been releasing consumer-grade software for the Mac for pretty much as long as it has been releasing consumer-grade software. This is just their venture into the App Store.



    2) I'm not sure what the Mac Pro has to do with Adobe's professional software suites. Even if Apple kills the Mac Pro the same professionals who use Adobe's professional software today will be using it at that point as well (unless someone comes along who can replace relevant Adobe products with viable and worthwhile alternatives). They'll just be doing it on a high-powered iMac, or something along those lines, after they upgrade their computers.



    3) Apple may kill the Mac Pro, and there is an argument for it, but 'slowly and surely' does not seem accurate. To date they have been upgrading and maintaining it.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    When the iMac can bench twice the current Mac Pro and can have 196GB of RAM, then they can kill the Mac Pro.



    Until then, we need it. The Mac Pro is a workstation, not a desktop. The iMac can't really replace it.



    This is true for some professions. For example, I'd be very upset about the death of the Mac Pro if I did a great deal of video rendering, or other highly intensive tasks (such as various scientific calculation, though there are alternatives for that). On the other hand, most professions which once benefited strongly from the Mac Pro can now easily transition to iMacs, upgrade more frequently, and save money on the long run. I probably fall into the later category as I type this on my Mac Pro.
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 39,487member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac: an Endangered Species View Post


    Tallest Skil:



    I would refer you to this post.



    Exactly, there's no reason for it to be here.



    Don't get all whiny because I responded to a troll about it; the trolls won't move over to the appropriate threads.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post


    One word "freak". Conspiracy theory much?



    Pas de tout. Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, the 9/11 Commission Report is imperfect, but accurate, and Osama bin Laden is dead.



    I was called much worse -- scorched by flames -- three years ago when in a forum I said the "bag of hurt" alibi for why Blu-ray was not offered to Mac buyers would portend far greater things in the future than the immediately apparent meaning, and that integrated optical drives altogether would systematically disappear from each and every Apple product -- NOT to make them thinner and still allow you to use an external one -- but to drop support of it in an effort to kill it! All content would be obtained by digital means -- namely, iTunes. (Heard what's planned for the REAL Apple TV?)



    Was I a mere "Conspiracy Theorist" then? Or was I proven right in time?



    In the "bag of hurt" statement it was said that Apple was just "waiting till things settle down" with Blu-ray before availing it to Mac buyers.



    Yes, you can buy an external optical drive, but 1.) who wants to hook it up to watch a DVD on your laptop on a plane trip (assuming the drive's 100% USB powered), and I fly a lot -- too much? 2.) Apple actually offered an external 3.5" floppy drive for the Bondi iMac (now killing THAT storage format was one I could get behind) to pacify complaints and then yanked it. After they took them out of Macs, Apple offered external USB modems and then yanked them. And they'll yank the Apple external SuperDrive at the right time as well. It is a pacifier. Trust me, Apple would rather you NOT buy one. 3.) As far as the Mac mini -- A.K.A. the non-transportable laptop -- there's room for an optical drive -- even a connector -- but an integrated optical drive isn't even a BTO option, ostensibly to make the mini EVEN smaller. But if you have to buy an external SuperDrive if you want optical, your neat and tidy little "mini" starts to look a tad bigger and unwieldy.



    They'll yank the USB Ethernet adaptor they sell. Right now, it's a pacifier. (But I'd actually rather see Thunderbolt used for wired connections and MUCH faster high-speed Internet services.)



    There are no alibis -- the goal is not to further in any way Blu-ray's (slow) adoption -- to kill it, the DVD and the CD. (Apple got a sense of their powerful influence when they introduced the legacy-free all-USB Bondi iMac -- the same USB that Intel had been unsuccessfully shopping around to gutless PC makers. Then Apple does it and BAM! -- toppling bandwagon.)



    [Footnote: major companies are hard at work on HVD. I may be alone, but I think it's exciting.]



    [There is a lengthy list of companies on HVDs consortium, including, APPLE! ]



    In that press conference three years ago, were they serious when, further addressing the Blu-ray issue, they said, "We have the best HD movie and TV options in iTunes"?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post


    Mac Pro will probably die. If I were Apple and the sales were low I would kill it as well. The advancment in CPU technology is killing the Mac Pro. A 3.4 ghz i7 based iMac with 16gigs of RAM fufilles the requirements of 99% of Mac Pro users and at a cheaper price.



    Oh, I'm sure it's not selling. I (as always) bought the top of the line dual, 12-core, 2.93GHz model when it was launched about a year and four months ago.



    I'm part of the problem. The reason I haven't contributed to addition Mac Pro sales lately IS BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T BEEN UPDATED FOR A FRICKIN' YEAR AND FOUR MONTHS!



    And more cores and higher clock rates are not the only way you can radically improve a machine -- they don't HAVE to wait until late Q1 2012 for the Xeon Sandy Bridge chipset to come out.



    I'd buy another Westmere if they improved it by adding a second 16-lane PCI slot (with spacer) and upgraded the 4x slots to 8x (REALLY opens up a lot of RAID options to you).



    Partner with both nVidia and AMD/ATi to port SLI and CrossFireX to [Mac] OS X -- or fortify OpenCL with GPU card parallel processing support. (CrossFireX allows FOUR cards working in parallel.)



    Or at least they could offer Mac Pro buyers the option of installing one of the dual-GPU chip, single card options that are now available.



    Photography, CAD, Videography & editing, Motion Graphics, etc. professionals would eat it up.



    Graphics card limitations have really been injurious to the Mac Pro.



    And have yields of 6-core clock speeds above 2.93GHz not been realized yet -- in a year and four months?! No 3.33?



    And has volume production not brought the cost down at all from the $1,200 premium you pay for the 2.93GHz over the 2.66GHz model -- in a year and four months (and counting)?



    You're correct. The top-most configuration of the iMac (with a next generation GPU compared to the Mac Pro options) with 2GB GDDR5 beats the fastest currently available Mac Pro in some benchmarks. The Mac Pro kicks its A$$ in other benchmarks.



    And ISVs are too lazy to truly optimize their apps to take full advantage of [Mac] OS X technologies like GCD, OpenCL, OpenGL 3.2, 64-bit and more. The best iMac is a single-CPU, 4-core machine. The best Mac Pro is a dual-CPU, 12 core machine. Which of the two do you think would benefit most from ISVs optimizing their products to take full advantage of software technologies like GCD and OpenCL?



    And the reason is clear why the iMac may look attractive to Pros: Apple has GREATLY enhanced it with SATA III 6G, a killer graphics card, Thunderbolt, etc. and left the Mac Pro to languish with an overwhelming two graphics card options, SATA II 3G, no Thunderbolt, and more.



    I don't blame these Pros for finding the iMac an attractive proposition. (But I'd wager anything that Apple's makes significantly more off the sale of a Mac Pro than an iMac. So the iMac is probably cannibalizing Mac Pro sales -- yet another factor.)



    So, when it's all so obvious even to a freak like me, why is Apple left scratching their heads in perplexity over poor Mac Pro sales? They created the conditions that led to this. The top iMac has been made mightier, while the Mac Pro has received no attention, and the top iMac's specs and performance are starting to overtake the Mac Pro. Simple.



    Neglect a product and why would you expect a different outcome?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post


    Thunderbolt (dual ports) can provide all the storage you will ever need, and at 10gig, and you never have to crack the case again to upgrade it. Daisy chain a few more monitors off it if you need it.



    Oh, snap! Thunderbolt! Yeah, how about fortifying the Mac Pro with 2(two) Thunderbolt ports -- each with their own bus! (Or, is it buss?)



    EVERY Mac now has Thunderbolt -- save for one: the Mac Pro.



    EVERY Mac now has SATA III 6G -- save for one: the Mac Pro.



    Macs and other products are starting to all get Bluetooth 4.0.



    Do I need to act it out with hand puppets to you, Apple?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post


    I think all Macbooks will be AIR like, that is slim 15inch models soon. Nothing wrong only selling the models that actually sell.



    Except Apple operates the other way around (third quotation down).



    They haven't "Thought Different" about the tower Mac in a long time. Even the Industrial Design remains unchanged since 2003, roughly 8 years, and looks as outdated as a Bondi iMac.



    After 8 long years the "Radiator" or Cheese Grater" needs an ID overhaul.



    But ID is the least of the problem.



    It should not be positioned as a "pc," but as a Work Station. Maybe it should not be called a Mac, to differentiate it from its consumer line. Apple in the past has had "PowerBooks," and other brand names. VW has Audi. Nissan has Infiniti. Toyota has Lexus. Honda has Acura.



    For years now, SIGGRAPH attendees who really want to use an Apple machine for loyalty and philosophical reasons complain about Apple's limited Graphics Card support and its allowance for almost NO customization of these programmable cards (the same card, configured optimally, say, for AutoCAD, might perform poorly on another high-end, graphics-intensive app, and vice-versa. That's why GPU makers make their cards programmable and customizable -- no one configuration is optimal for every application).



    These Pros with Apple in their heart are forced to use Windows machines against their strongest wishes for unfortunate, but realistic business considerations.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post


    One word "freak".



    Oh, and I won't respond in kind to the ad hominem "freak" description, because, however juvenile, it is in fact accurate.



    "Here's to the crazy ones."
  • yours smuglyyours smugly Posts: 43member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Buy Pixelmator, then. Enough people stop buying Adobe products, they lose their monopoly and don't get to charge $5,000 for one piece of software.



    I'd very much like to, if only it were as powerful as PS, which, for all its bloat and excessive pricing, is still THE graphics tool to use.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Exactly, there's no reason for it to be here.



    Don't get all whiny because I responded to a troll about it; the trolls won't move over to the appropriate threads.



    Don't get all whiny because I responded to your response to a troll.



    People don't post on the 11th page of a forum because it will be read about twice -- and that's if the author reads it twice.



    They go STALE!



    And what's with this knee-jerk, low-hanging-fruit "troll" description.



    When I'z a yungin' "troll" actually meant something. Now it means nothing -- except maybe to describe anyone who does not share your identical point-of-view.



    And don't get whiny again until you've read this.
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 39,487member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac: an Endangered Species View Post


    People don't post on the 11th page of a forum because it will be read about twice -- and that's if the author reads it twice.



    They go STALE!



    You ARE new here, aren't you?



    That's a great thread. Great discussion there. This isn't like some forums; we're living documents.



    Quote:

    And don't get whiny again until you've read this.



    You keep linking to my post as though you have a point. It's funny.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    You ARE new here, aren't you?



    Actually, no. I've been with AppleInsider since its inception (maybe 13 or so years longer than you? IDK).



    It's just that I'm not a "serial poster," post rarely, and I SUCK WITH PASSWORDS!



    I should "crawl" my .MBOX files to see what my membership was and have AppleInsider delete the account or combine them. Wouldn't want to overburden their servers.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    You keep linking to my post as though you have a point. It's funny.



    HILARIOUS!



  • conrailconrail Posts: 489member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post


    I doubt you'll get an upgrade. Remember, this is Adobe we're talking about, who charged full prices for a point update of their Creative Suite (5.5). Just remember, though, that Apple, who will give you unlimited installs and lifetime updates of their App Store apps, is still somehow more evil than anything else on the entire planet combined.



    Adobe offers upgrade pricing on non-Elements versions of virtually every software package and suite they sell. The only thing they do that I don't necessarily agree with is charging more based on how many versions back you are. If you upgrade from CS 5 to 5.5, it's a relatively minor charge. Go from 3 to 5.5, and you're paying a lot more.
  • evilutionevilution Posts: 920member
    Oh good, I'm glad I paid more for the previous version only 6 weeks ago. There is no upgrade option and the Adobe site doesn't sell the Editor version.



    It's a shame that Adobe's idea of fixing bugs is releasing a new version with totally new bugs in it.
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