Rare photo pictures young, rebellious Steve Jobs flipping IBM the bird

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Comments

  • pendergastpendergast Posts: 1,358member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Oflife View Post


    True enemies need to be flawed or evil, and IBM were not and are not. Yes, they appear boring, however not in reality:



    1. Their products are exceptionally reliable - hence you see pre Lenovo Think Pads in use still today. In fact, I would happily pay for a ThinkPad that ran OS X for that superb keyboard!

    2. IBM put a lot of effort into ergonomics - again, consider our love of clicky keyboards, starting with the IBM PC, and the excellent ThinkPad keyboards.

    3 Exceptional industrial design - their contemporary desktop machines and the ThinkPads were superb, very well built and sexy too.

    4. IBM innovate, from modular computers, the ThinkPad butterfly keyboard (short lived I know) and others - not to mention their bleeding edge Chess playing mainframes.

    5. Superb advertising.

    6. Renowned customer service, hence the phrase, "No one ever got fired for choosing IBM." (Or similar.)

    7. Research labs that have contributed to a lot of what goes into Apple products!



    In other words, IBM are a respectable competitor, but in no way evil or boring.



    @gofonebox



    I...



    Words fail me.
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 39,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Oflife View Post


    ?ThinkPads? ?sexy?







    "Oh, baby? yes, gimmie some of that actual, physical key? oh, yes, you can tray load me and draw on me with a stylus ANY time?"



  • charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,068member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac-Daddy View Post


    Stay classy, Steve.



    folks have called him crazy, smart and profitable. But no one ever claimed he was classy.
  • ron1701ron1701 Posts: 20member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Oflife View Post


    True enemies need to be flawed or evil, and IBM were not and are not. Yes, they appear boring, however not in reality:



    1. Their products are exceptionally reliable - hence you see pre Lenovo Think Pads in use still today. In fact, I would happily pay for a ThinkPad that ran OS X for that superb keyboard!



    True. They were also exceptionally expensive



    2. IBM put a lot of effort into ergonomics - again, consider our love of clicky keyboards, starting with the IBM PC, and the excellent ThinkPad keyboards.



    I'll grant you that. In the early PC era IBM peripherals were certainly more ergonomic than the junk made by their competitors back then.



    3 Exceptional industrial design - their contemporary desktop machines and the ThinkPads were superb, very well built and sexy too.



    Their desktop machines sentenced themselves to death by using the proprietary Microchannel technology that was incompatible ( and more expensive ) than anything else. IBM still did not recognize that the era of totally incompatible hardware was at an end.



    4. IBM innovate, from modular computers, the ThinkPad butterfly keyboard (short lived I know) and others - not to mention their bleeding edge Chess playing mainframes.



    Their bleeding edge mainframes were history by the time Steve Jobs came along.



    5. Superb advertising.



    Gotta disagree with this one. Other than sponsoring Golf tournaments they didn't do much advertising at all. They were dwarfed by the advertising Microsoft did then and Apple does now. The few TV commercials I saw were embarrassingly bad. Do you remember "How do you do it? PS/2 it" ?



    6. Renowned customer service, hence the phrase, "No one ever got fired for choosing IBM." (Or similar.)



    Back in the old days, this was true. Their customer service was very good and very expensive. Today, anyone who has had the displeasure of dealing with IBM Global services knows that the situation is reversed.



    7. Research labs that have contributed to a lot of what goes into Apple products!



    Also, ancient history.



    In other words, IBM are a respectable competitor, but in no way evil or boring.



    They were a respectable company a great innovator. They've degenerated to a little more than a service bureau that they staff with the cheapest labor they can find in the world and provide the lowest level of service they can get away with. For now, because of their size, they are the only service provider that can handle large multinationals. That business model should carry them a few more decades at most, at which time they'll go they way of the other dinosaurs . By the time Steve Jobs appeared on the scene they had already began their decent from the most respected name in computing to the depths they inhabit today.



    @gofonebox



    abcde
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 39,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ron1701 View Post


    abcde



    Why not break the quote up? You've made it unreadable.
  • marquismarkmarquismark Posts: 69member
    It's kinda funny. In a lot of ways, Apple is now what IBM was back then. Cutting edge tech, market leader, tightly controlled environment, people either loved them or hated them. Not sure how that happened.



    So the question is, who is the new Apple?
  • oflifeoflife Posts: 120member
    Well, I was pretty young back then so I cannot comment on what IBM were up to.



    Interested to learn more about what you say/claim.



    Note that Apple are also exceptionally controlling today. I have used and do use their products since 1990 and there are a lot of issues which most consumers do not realise the flaws in. Let's put it this way, when colleagues of mine (educated techies, not dumb dumbs), try a Mac after any other platform, they are horrified at the GUI and lockin that is iTunes. And as a UX guy, I concur.



    Not to mention the impossibility of exchanging content properly (properly!) between Apple products and devices. A total nightmare. I'm forced to use DropBox or a USB drive. I could go on.



    Neither of the above examples are evil, just usability issues, but there are a few other matters too, but probably no different than any other corporate bohemoth.



    Don't forget, Apple are now the world's largest company!







    >IBM was doing some truly evil stuff back then and they most definitely were the "enemy" of the new >personal computer movement epitomised by people like Jobs at the time.

    > IBM like Samsung is a lot of different things at different times. At this particular time they were an >evil, anti-consumer behemoth that was dominating and controlling the market place for no >particularly good reason.[/QUOTE]
  • wardcwardc Posts: 150member
    Watch this Apple vs. IBM "Blue Busters" ad from 1984 to get the real feeling for how Apple internal felt about IBM during this era. IBM truly was the enemy back then, Microsoft was actually Apple's friend back then, making many of the early apps for the Macintosh.



    Apple vs. IBM "Blue Busters":



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=-KOnfN-ZDrs
  • absolutedesignzabsolutedesignz Posts: 1,930member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Oflife View Post


    True enemies need to be flawed or evil, and IBM were not and are not. Yes, they appear boring, however not in reality:



    1. Their products are exceptionally reliable - hence you see pre Lenovo Think Pads in use still today. In fact, I would happily pay for a ThinkPad that ran OS X for that superb keyboard!




    That and the little red mouse joystick thing that was exceptionally more reliable and more accurate than touchpads are IMO.
  • andysolandysol Posts: 2,506member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Why not break the quote up? You've made it unreadable.



    If he was on his phone it might have been too hard to break it into so many quotes. But im just guessing? Otherwise, yeah- it was tougher to read
  • dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 11,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    No offence, but this sounds kind of trite.



    IBM was doing some truly evil stuff back then and they most definitely were the "enemy" of the new personal computer movement epitomised by people like Jobs at the time.



    IBM like Samsung is a lot of different things at different times. At this particular time they were an evil, anti-consumer behemoth that was dominating and controlling the market place for no particularly good reason.



    Can you point to some specific citations of IBM evil actions?



    I worked in data processing for companies* who used IBM Accounting Machines and Computers from 1956-1963.



    * Pensick & Gordon, Consolidated Electrodynamics/Bell & Howell, Lockheed, Hoffman Electronics



    Then I worked for IBM Data Processing Division (Maimframe Computer Technical Marketing Support) as a System Engineer... Headquarters rep from 1063-1980.



    Then had IBM as both a Customer and Supplier for our computer stores from 1978-1989.



    In those 33 years I never saw or heard of IBM doing anything "evil".



    Indeed, even though IBM held 97% of the mainframe computer market -- the were deemed not to be an illegal monopoly because they had attained that position by providing excellent products, marketing and support.



    In fact, when we started the computer stores, we borrowed several principles from IBM:



    1) Return a profit to our investors

    2) Provide the best possible products and services to our customers

    3) Have Fun
  • eyensteinnoeyensteinno Posts: 148member
    Steve was just pointing at the I Buy Mac's sign.



    His index finger was hurt from typing on an Apple II keyboard.



    I had the same finger problem later pointing at the More Sh*t sign in

    C-at-tell.
  • dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 11,306member
    For all those claiming there was friction between Apple and IBM...



    Shortly after Apple went public, Steve was very full of himself and claimed Apple was going to be so successful that they would buy Xerox and IBM.



    Just what computers do you thing Apple used to run their business from 1978 on...



    Hint it wasn't Apple ][, CDC, Cray, NCR, Burroughs, Sperry Rand, DEC...
  • eyensteinnoeyensteinno Posts: 148member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    For all those claiming there was friction between Apple and IBM...



    Shortly after Apple went public, Steve was very full of himself and claimed Apple was going to be so successful that they would buy Xerox and IBM.



    Just what computers do you thing Apple used to run their business from 1978 on...



    Hint it wasn't Apple ][, CDC, Cray, NCR, Burroughs, Sperry Rand, DEC...



    HP ? I think Woz may have had one.
  • dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 11,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EyeNsteinNo View Post


    HP ? I think Woz may have had one.



    Nope...



    Here ya' go:



  • quinneyquinney Posts: 2,420member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    ...

    Then I worked for IBM Data Processing Division (Maimframe Computer Technical Marketing Support) as a System Engineer... Headquarters rep from 1063-1980.



    So were you the one responsible for compiling the Battle of Hastings statistics?
  • whiterabbitwhiterabbit Posts: 208member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    1) Return a profit to our investors

    2) Provide the best possible products and services to our customers

    3) Have Fun



    I don't know much about IBM, but I for one don't much like like to be a customer to a business that places profit above creating a valuable product or service. You could argue that's the nature of business, but I don't agree, and I think the difference is a focus on making a quick buck right now, versus building a great product for the future.



    I recently helped my mom look at washers, and was really apalled by the selection of non-commercial washers (which were only a few factors out of budget). There was zero innovation, like they put their "features" in a hat, pulled out a few, and called it new, some were missing good last-year features, and others had who-would ever use that features. We ended up with a washer that is pretty "meh, what can you do."



    A few companies in the tablet business seem to be caught with their pants down because they were only focusing on the money now instead of the future. Maybe the same will happen in the tv business, we'll see.



    Jobs was famous for never giving dividends, and there's articles all the time about how "undervalued" apple is for investors. Tim's position remains to be seen, but I hope that sees valuable products as the primary focus at apple.
  • cpsrocpsro Posts: 2,047member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Oflife View Post


    Well, I was pretty young back then so I cannot comment on what IBM were up to.



    Yes, you can. You just need to read about the IBM monopoly and anti-trust cases.

    (What is it with the lack of mentality in so many people?)



    Apple is nowhere near the place where IBM and Microsoft have been.





    Quote:

    Don't forget, Apple are now the world's largest company!



    Uh, no, Apple is the most-valued company--highest share price X number of outstanding shares. Apple is far from being the largest employer or biggest producer.
  • dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 11,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by quinney View Post


    So were you the one responsible for compiling the Battle of Hastings statistics?



    Sorry for the typo.



    Actually, the story is a bit sadder than that...



    I went to work for IBM in the Riverside, CA Branch Office in November 1963. Immediately, I went to a 2-week class on the IBM 1410 at the IBM building on Wilshire Blvd. (next to the Ambassador Hotel) in LA.



    Our class ended early that Friday so I drove the 60 miles back to the Riverside Branch. It was a real weird drive -- cars weaving all over the freeway or pulling off to the side (my car didn't have a radio)...



    When I got to the Branch, there were no cars in the parking lot, the back door was ajar, but there was nobody in the building...



    I walked around a while and eventually went into the copier/TeleType room...



    On the TT was the message that JFK had been assassinated a hour earlier...



    I remember thinking: "How can this happen in America?"



    Less than 5 years later, RFK was assassinated at the Ambassador Hotel...
  • peterloblpeterlobl Posts: 15member
    wow!

    you really want to do to IBM what Steve was saying !

    is it lust or .. nah, sounds like love!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Oflife View Post


    True enemies need to be flawed or evil, and IBM were not and are not. Yes, they appear boring, however not in reality:



    1. Their products are exceptionally reliable - hence you see pre Lenovo Think Pads in use still today. In fact, I would happily pay for a ThinkPad that ran OS X for that superb keyboard!

    2. IBM put a lot of effort into ergonomics - again, consider our love of clicky keyboards, starting with the IBM PC, and the excellent ThinkPad keyboards.

    3 Exceptional industrial design - their contemporary desktop machines and the ThinkPads were superb, very well built and sexy too.

    4. IBM innovate, from modular computers, the ThinkPad butterfly keyboard (short lived I know) and others - not to mention their bleeding edge Chess playing mainframes.

    5. Superb advertising.

    6. Renowned customer service, hence the phrase, "No one ever got fired for choosing IBM." (Or similar.)

    7. Research labs that have contributed to a lot of what goes into Apple products!



    In other words, IBM are a respectable competitor, but in no way evil or boring.



    @gofonebox



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