Target is a discount chain. Apple will damage their brand by associating with them.
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Originally Posted by Obama
A very popular response, found on almost every thread here. Of course, I couldn't be more wrong.
Interesting to hear people's positive perceptions of Target vs the negative ones for WalMart. Never really saw the difference between the two and why people are so "on about WalMart" while giving Target a pass.
Bottom line, you will shop anywhere that gives you a cut rate price, regardless of what kind of company they are and how they treat their employees and community. You have to in this economy that I created. And we all really "need" iPads, don't we?
Those so-called discounters while they have a reputation for good prices actually don't. For products that I would buy, whether it's orange juice or electronics, they are priced much higher in Target and WalMart than such NYC-based independent, non-chain retailers such as J&R and B&H.
Sure, they'll put a few products on deep discount to grab you in the store, but overall, their prices actually suck. And while I avoid both Target and Wal-Mart, I do perceive a big difference in the stores if only because of the people who shop there. Check out http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/.
One view is that with the iPod, iPhone and to a lesser extent with the iPad, Apple has appeal to almost all consumers and therefore should be in these mass market retailers. Apple cannot ever build enough stores in enough locations to satisfy the mass market demand (in spite of online ordering) and if Apple limited their physical sales to Apple stores and a few select high-end retailers, they would lose sales.
The other view is that Apple's products are high-end esoteric products, even though they've been accepted by the mass market and that Apple's carefully constructed marketing and branding is hurt by having their products sold in such chains as Target and Wal-Mart.
I'm in the latter court. I think Apple is hurting their brand. I think they need to be a bit more selective. And if they're selling everything they can manufacture anyway, then they don't need to be everywhere. One of the reasons Apple developed their own retail is because they didn't like the way their products were presented in other retailers. So now they're back to selling in other retailers? In spite of the display units Apple provides, displays of Apple products in other stores frequently looks like crap.
As for people buying in the cheapest place, aside from Target/Wal-Mart frequently not being the cheapest stores anyway (and especially not for Apple's products, which are rarely discounted anywhere), while I agree that many people look only for the cheapest price, not everyone does. I, for one, will absolutely never shop in a Wal-Mart or K-Mart regardless of the pricing. I shop in Target perhaps once a year and that's only to buy cleaning supplies. I won't shop in Best Buy either. And I know plenty of other people who also won't shop in any big-box store, regardless of the price.
(And regarding your nasty political swipe, there are several factors that have resulted in the poor economy: the first one, which has nothing to do with either Obama or Bush is that corporations have become far more productive and are recording record profits, but have decided that profits are more important than people and their communities and they won't hire. The second is the long term trend of manufacturing moving overseas, which no politician of either party can do anything about unless you're willing to enact massive import taxes on goods manufactured overseas even from American companies, which might restart U.S. manufacturing, but would greatly increase prices of all such products. And the primary factor in moving manufacturing overseas are the incredibly low wages ($130/month in China) that makes U.S. manufacturing non-competitive even if U.S. companies paid no taxes whatsoever, there were no business regulations, no unions and everyone would work for minimum wage, which is not a living wage anyway. The third is the collapse of the banking system which essentially happened under the prior administration. When George Bush left office, the Dow was at 8776. While it still sucks and is far below its 14,000 peak (also during the Bush administration), it's around 12,400 today, which is a remarkable achievement. Most people who oppose Obama's policies think there should have been no bailouts and no government initiated programs to boost the economy. The bailouts were largely enacted by the Bush administration and many of us feel that the economy is still weak because government programs were too small, not too large. And another reason the economy sucks is because of the deficit, which in large part is due to the government taking in far less revenue, which is due to corporations avoiding taxes and rich people not paying their share - the top marginal rate was 70% under Nixon, 50% under Reagan and 38% today and that's aside from the general unfairness that long term capital gains are only taxed at 18%.)
I AGREE! And yes, I yelled but that is only because of all the people disagreeing. It's hard to fathom why anyone would think this makes good sense for Apple in the long term.
The Apple Store, and by extenstion Apple products, has always been about the experience...both visual and tactile. Look at the picture of the Target display. Cheap looking, standard metal shelves painted black with no products out in the open for the customer to experience. No one around to ask question or point out features. It is the exact opposite of the image Apple tries to give off. If you want to charge a premium price for your product you must sell it in the appropriate surroundings.
That ship sailed long ago, as I mentioned in a post a few back. Personally I think Target's Apple display area is much nicer than the way Walmart display's it's iPhones and iPads. I'm sure even you will agree you'd rather see Apple at Target than Walmart if given a choice.
The Apple Store, and by extenstion Apple products, has always been about the experience...both visual and tactile. Look at the picture of the Target display. Cheap looking, standard metal shelves painted black with no products out in the open for the customer to experience. No one around to ask question or point out features. It is the exact opposite of the image Apple tries to give off.
You are using an example of how the Apple portion of Target looks now and assuming that is how it would be. Apple's Store Within a Store's don't look like that. Think how they look other places and that is how they would be there. How is this hard to grasp?
No, Target is not a discount chain, it is simply a general goods store. Just use the eyeball test and walk into a Walmart and a Target. Take a look around at not only the people that shop there, but the people that work there. Look at the shelves, the layout, the lighting, the floors. It is so much more pleasing and satisfying to shop at Target than any of the other places it "competes" with. Hell, I work for Best Buy, and if my employee discount isn't drastically less, I still prefer to shop at Target.
No offense meant, but you need to get out more. Target has the standard tile floors and stamped metal shelves and flourescent lights. At least that's what's in all the Targets I've ever been to. Sure, it's nicer than Wal Mart but that's not saying a lot.
You are using an example of how the Apple portion of Target looks now and assuming that is how it would be. Apple's Store Within a Store's don't look like that. Think how they look other places and that is how they would be there. How is this hard to grasp?
Love your last sentence. Why are YOU assuming it's going to look much different than how it is currently? The picture shows iPads being sold in a Target. Why do you assume they're suddenly going to make that more upscale? Even the ones at Best Buy don't look very good so why do you expect Target...a place that sells groceries...is going to some some really upscale looking SWaS?
This is a good move by Apple. If you look at the Target pictures displayed, they show a big problem with Apple merchandise. Namely, unlike in the Apple Store, you can't try the product before you buy. The product is hidden behind a plastic case. Android offerings like the Android Fire and Nook are not. People can play with those devices.
That ship sailed long ago, as I mentioned in a post a few back. Personally I think Target's Apple display area is much nicer than the way Walmart display's it's iPhones and iPads. I'm sure even you will agree you'd rather see Apple at Target than Walmart if given a choice.
I avoid Walmart at all costs so I haven't seen their display. But from the few times I have been there I can imagine. Do they at least deodorize the urine smell in the Apple isle?
And I hope people don't get me wrong, I actually shop at Target all the time. I have nothing against it and am glad it's there. From a business and consumer standpoint, I just don't like the idea of Apple store within a store's there.
Computer usage at the corporate level doesn't mean that there is going to be hardware sold at the store level. It needs to make financial sense for this to happen. I think they might sell iPads, iPods, AppleTVs, Time Machines, Airports, but I don't think they're going to sell actual Mac computers at the retail level.
Best Buy has a history of selling computers. I remember when CompUSA was still around and had Apple store-in-a-stores. Apple hated them. The computers weren't maintained and the experience wasn't Apple branded. This lead to the Apple retail revolution. While they were able to partially alleviate this problem in Best Buy with these hired sales consultants, Apple would need to hire 2,000 more of these consultants in order to sell computers at stores that currently doesn't have any pc shopping foot traffic.
I don't buy electronics from Target. There is an Apple store closer to me, and a Best Buy about the same distance away. My priority (based on the fact that I don't own a car) is proximity and quality. It used to be Apple Store -> Fry's -> Best Buy -------> Target. The Apple Store is too damn crowded and has a very limited selection beyond core Apple products, so it is falling out of favor. Fry's is a mess... and Best Buy doesn't have any soul.
Target has an opportunity to take share from BB if they can become a credible place to buy electronics. Apple might help them in that regard.
I AGREE! And yes, I yelled but that is only because of all the people disagreeing. It's hard to fathom why anyone would think this makes good sense for Apple in the long term.
Really taxes the mind to think of a reason for Apple to want to sell to more people, you're right.
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It is the exact opposite of the image Apple tries to give off.
And so is Best Buy. Which is why Apple has their own table, their own surroundings, their own displays, and their own flooring. JUST like they will have at Target.
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Anyone that knows anything about marketing could tell you this is horrible idea.
Is it fair to say you're not one of those people?
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…dilute the brand…
No, that would be releasing a 7" iPad or 5" iPod touch.
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Originally Posted by Conrail
Agreed. But within three years, Apple won't be selling them either.
Love your last sentence. Why are YOU assuming it's going to look much different than how it is currently? The picture shows iPads being sold in a Target. Why do you assume they're suddenly going to make that more upscale? Even the ones at Best Buy don't look very good so why do you expect Target...a place that sells groceries...is going to some some really upscale looking SWaS?
B/c right now it isn't a SWAS, it's just an Apple section. When Apple does a SWAS, they have trained Apple people there for questions, product out on display for use, etc. Why WOULDN'T I assume that? The SWAS at Best Buy has the wooden table in teh style Apple uses and such, so yes, things will look different. Apple isn't just going to say "Yeah, that current crap section they have for us at Target is now a SWAS, whee!".
One view is that with the iPod, iPhone and to a lesser extent with the iPad, Apple has appeal to almost all consumers and therefore should be in these mass market retailers. Apple cannot ever build enough stores in enough locations to satisfy the mass market demand (in spite of online ordering) and if Apple limited their physical sales to Apple stores and a few select high-end retailers, they would lose sales.
The other view is that Apple's products are high-end esoteric products, even though they've been accepted by the mass market and that Apple's carefully constructed marketing and branding is hurt by having their products sold in such chains as Target and Wal-Mart.
I'm in the latter court. I think Apple is hurting their brand. I think they need to be a bit more selective. And if they're selling everything they can manufacture anyway, then they don't need to be everywhere. One of the reasons Apple developed their own retail is because they didn't like the way their products were presented in other retailers. So now they're back to selling in other retailers? In spite of the display units Apple provides, displays of Apple products in other stores frequently looks like crap.
Considering that Best Buy is likely going to fold, this is an obvious choice to replace them.
Just please, no Walmart. Target may be discount, but they have style.
Please let's not act all elitist now. There's nothing wrong with Walmart and they sell more software and computer hardware than ANYONE. I suspect you'll be shown wrong soon enough!
Really taxes the mind to think of a reason for Apple to want to sell to more people, you're right.
Are "global moderator's" always such smart a$$es? I know why they want to do it. As I said, it's a money grab. Is it that taxing to the mind to comprehend how a short-term gain could be a long-term detriment?
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And so is Best Buy. Which is why Apple has their own table, their own surroundings, their own displays, and their own flooring. JUST like they will have at Target.
You must work at Apple since you know exactly how it will look. But, even if it does look exactly like Best Buy's display, that is not saying a lot. One solitary wooden table does not a store make. Also, Best Buy sells a lot of high end merchandise. Target does not.
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Is it fair to say you're not one of those people?
Yes, that would be fair. I could tell you about my degrees but that would be crass.
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No, that would be releasing a 7" iPad or 5" iPod touch.
Is it that taxing to the mind to comprehend how a short-term gain could be a long-term detriment?
Could you explain it for us slow-minded ones? Particularly how this is any different from Apple having Authorized Resellers or kiosks in Best Buy.
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You must work at Apple since you know exactly how it will look.
And you must work for them to know exactly how it will not. See where that gets you? Without any concrete information, the best we have on which to speculate is existing data. Therefore, the Best Buy model.
Noooooooo! We can't put our elite, beautiful, and magical products anywhere they might be soiled by the unwashed masses! No to Best Buy. No to Costco. No Target, Wal-Mart!
I am for the Wells Fargo approach.
All new Apple stores will be opened in the vaults of Wells Fargo Banks, and you must make an appointment (after a background check) to purchase an product. Upon sucessfully displaying your Black American Express Card, or your Wells Fargo Home Equity line of credit, you will be allowed to don white lint-free gloves, and actually touch a product.
Apple will then slide into the depths of an Amelio-like dive.
Apple is not a Mercedes, BMW, or even a Kia. Apple is a CONSUMER ELECTRONICS company. And the point of making great products that do great things, is to get them into the hands of as many people as you can.
Comments
Target is a discount chain. Apple will damage their brand by associating with them.
A very popular response, found on almost every thread here. Of course, I couldn't be more wrong.
Interesting to hear people's positive perceptions of Target vs the negative ones for WalMart. Never really saw the difference between the two and why people are so "on about WalMart" while giving Target a pass.
Bottom line, you will shop anywhere that gives you a cut rate price, regardless of what kind of company they are and how they treat their employees and community. You have to in this economy that I created. And we all really "need" iPads, don't we?
Those so-called discounters while they have a reputation for good prices actually don't. For products that I would buy, whether it's orange juice or electronics, they are priced much higher in Target and WalMart than such NYC-based independent, non-chain retailers such as J&R and B&H.
Sure, they'll put a few products on deep discount to grab you in the store, but overall, their prices actually suck. And while I avoid both Target and Wal-Mart, I do perceive a big difference in the stores if only because of the people who shop there. Check out http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/.
One view is that with the iPod, iPhone and to a lesser extent with the iPad, Apple has appeal to almost all consumers and therefore should be in these mass market retailers. Apple cannot ever build enough stores in enough locations to satisfy the mass market demand (in spite of online ordering) and if Apple limited their physical sales to Apple stores and a few select high-end retailers, they would lose sales.
The other view is that Apple's products are high-end esoteric products, even though they've been accepted by the mass market and that Apple's carefully constructed marketing and branding is hurt by having their products sold in such chains as Target and Wal-Mart.
I'm in the latter court. I think Apple is hurting their brand. I think they need to be a bit more selective. And if they're selling everything they can manufacture anyway, then they don't need to be everywhere. One of the reasons Apple developed their own retail is because they didn't like the way their products were presented in other retailers. So now they're back to selling in other retailers? In spite of the display units Apple provides, displays of Apple products in other stores frequently looks like crap.
As for people buying in the cheapest place, aside from Target/Wal-Mart frequently not being the cheapest stores anyway (and especially not for Apple's products, which are rarely discounted anywhere), while I agree that many people look only for the cheapest price, not everyone does. I, for one, will absolutely never shop in a Wal-Mart or K-Mart regardless of the pricing. I shop in Target perhaps once a year and that's only to buy cleaning supplies. I won't shop in Best Buy either. And I know plenty of other people who also won't shop in any big-box store, regardless of the price.
(And regarding your nasty political swipe, there are several factors that have resulted in the poor economy: the first one, which has nothing to do with either Obama or Bush is that corporations have become far more productive and are recording record profits, but have decided that profits are more important than people and their communities and they won't hire. The second is the long term trend of manufacturing moving overseas, which no politician of either party can do anything about unless you're willing to enact massive import taxes on goods manufactured overseas even from American companies, which might restart U.S. manufacturing, but would greatly increase prices of all such products. And the primary factor in moving manufacturing overseas are the incredibly low wages ($130/month in China) that makes U.S. manufacturing non-competitive even if U.S. companies paid no taxes whatsoever, there were no business regulations, no unions and everyone would work for minimum wage, which is not a living wage anyway. The third is the collapse of the banking system which essentially happened under the prior administration. When George Bush left office, the Dow was at 8776. While it still sucks and is far below its 14,000 peak (also during the Bush administration), it's around 12,400 today, which is a remarkable achievement. Most people who oppose Obama's policies think there should have been no bailouts and no government initiated programs to boost the economy. The bailouts were largely enacted by the Bush administration and many of us feel that the economy is still weak because government programs were too small, not too large. And another reason the economy sucks is because of the deficit, which in large part is due to the government taking in far less revenue, which is due to corporations avoiding taxes and rich people not paying their share - the top marginal rate was 70% under Nixon, 50% under Reagan and 38% today and that's aside from the general unfairness that long term capital gains are only taxed at 18%.)
I AGREE! And yes, I yelled but that is only because of all the people disagreeing. It's hard to fathom why anyone would think this makes good sense for Apple in the long term.
The Apple Store, and by extenstion Apple products, has always been about the experience...both visual and tactile. Look at the picture of the Target display. Cheap looking, standard metal shelves painted black with no products out in the open for the customer to experience. No one around to ask question or point out features. It is the exact opposite of the image Apple tries to give off. If you want to charge a premium price for your product you must sell it in the appropriate surroundings.
That ship sailed long ago, as I mentioned in a post a few back. Personally I think Target's Apple display area is much nicer than the way Walmart display's it's iPhones and iPads. I'm sure even you will agree you'd rather see Apple at Target than Walmart if given a choice.
The Apple Store, and by extenstion Apple products, has always been about the experience...both visual and tactile. Look at the picture of the Target display. Cheap looking, standard metal shelves painted black with no products out in the open for the customer to experience. No one around to ask question or point out features. It is the exact opposite of the image Apple tries to give off.
You are using an example of how the Apple portion of Target looks now and assuming that is how it would be. Apple's Store Within a Store's don't look like that. Think how they look other places and that is how they would be there. How is this hard to grasp?
No, Target is not a discount chain, it is simply a general goods store. Just use the eyeball test and walk into a Walmart and a Target. Take a look around at not only the people that shop there, but the people that work there. Look at the shelves, the layout, the lighting, the floors. It is so much more pleasing and satisfying to shop at Target than any of the other places it "competes" with. Hell, I work for Best Buy, and if my employee discount isn't drastically less, I still prefer to shop at Target.
No offense meant, but you need to get out more. Target has the standard tile floors and stamped metal shelves and flourescent lights. At least that's what's in all the Targets I've ever been to. Sure, it's nicer than Wal Mart but that's not saying a lot.
You are using an example of how the Apple portion of Target looks now and assuming that is how it would be. Apple's Store Within a Store's don't look like that. Think how they look other places and that is how they would be there. How is this hard to grasp?
Love your last sentence. Why are YOU assuming it's going to look much different than how it is currently? The picture shows iPads being sold in a Target. Why do you assume they're suddenly going to make that more upscale? Even the ones at Best Buy don't look very good so why do you expect Target...a place that sells groceries...is going to some some really upscale looking SWaS?
That ship sailed long ago, as I mentioned in a post a few back. Personally I think Target's Apple display area is much nicer than the way Walmart display's it's iPhones and iPads. I'm sure even you will agree you'd rather see Apple at Target than Walmart if given a choice.
I avoid Walmart at all costs so I haven't seen their display. But from the few times I have been there I can imagine. Do they at least deodorize the urine smell in the Apple isle?
And I hope people don't get me wrong, I actually shop at Target all the time. I have nothing against it and am glad it's there. From a business and consumer standpoint, I just don't like the idea of Apple store within a store's there.
Doubtful they're going to sell Macs.
Agreed. But within three years, Apple won't be selling them either.
Computer usage at the corporate level doesn't mean that there is going to be hardware sold at the store level. It needs to make financial sense for this to happen. I think they might sell iPads, iPods, AppleTVs, Time Machines, Airports, but I don't think they're going to sell actual Mac computers at the retail level.
Best Buy has a history of selling computers. I remember when CompUSA was still around and had Apple store-in-a-stores. Apple hated them. The computers weren't maintained and the experience wasn't Apple branded. This lead to the Apple retail revolution. While they were able to partially alleviate this problem in Best Buy with these hired sales consultants, Apple would need to hire 2,000 more of these consultants in order to sell computers at stores that currently doesn't have any pc shopping foot traffic.
I don't buy electronics from Target. There is an Apple store closer to me, and a Best Buy about the same distance away. My priority (based on the fact that I don't own a car) is proximity and quality. It used to be Apple Store -> Fry's -> Best Buy -------> Target. The Apple Store is too damn crowded and has a very limited selection beyond core Apple products, so it is falling out of favor. Fry's is a mess... and Best Buy doesn't have any soul.
Target has an opportunity to take share from BB if they can become a credible place to buy electronics. Apple might help them in that regard.
I AGREE! And yes, I yelled but that is only because of all the people disagreeing. It's hard to fathom why anyone would think this makes good sense for Apple in the long term.
Really taxes the mind to think of a reason for Apple to want to sell to more people, you're right.
It is the exact opposite of the image Apple tries to give off.
And so is Best Buy. Which is why Apple has their own table, their own surroundings, their own displays, and their own flooring. JUST like they will have at Target.
Anyone that knows anything about marketing could tell you this is horrible idea.
Is it fair to say you're not one of those people?
…dilute the brand…
No, that would be releasing a 7" iPad or 5" iPod touch.
Agreed. But within three years, Apple won't be selling them either.
That's even funnier than the other guy's quote.
Love your last sentence. Why are YOU assuming it's going to look much different than how it is currently? The picture shows iPads being sold in a Target. Why do you assume they're suddenly going to make that more upscale? Even the ones at Best Buy don't look very good so why do you expect Target...a place that sells groceries...is going to some some really upscale looking SWaS?
B/c right now it isn't a SWAS, it's just an Apple section. When Apple does a SWAS, they have trained Apple people there for questions, product out on display for use, etc. Why WOULDN'T I assume that? The SWAS at Best Buy has the wooden table in teh style Apple uses and such, so yes, things will look different. Apple isn't just going to say "Yeah, that current crap section they have for us at Target is now a SWAS, whee!".
Also, not all Targets sell groceries.
One view is that with the iPod, iPhone and to a lesser extent with the iPad, Apple has appeal to almost all consumers and therefore should be in these mass market retailers. Apple cannot ever build enough stores in enough locations to satisfy the mass market demand (in spite of online ordering) and if Apple limited their physical sales to Apple stores and a few select high-end retailers, they would lose sales.
The other view is that Apple's products are high-end esoteric products, even though they've been accepted by the mass market and that Apple's carefully constructed marketing and branding is hurt by having their products sold in such chains as Target and Wal-Mart.
I'm in the latter court. I think Apple is hurting their brand. I think they need to be a bit more selective. And if they're selling everything they can manufacture anyway, then they don't need to be everywhere. One of the reasons Apple developed their own retail is because they didn't like the way their products were presented in other retailers. So now they're back to selling in other retailers? In spite of the display units Apple provides, displays of Apple products in other stores frequently looks like crap.
^^^This!!!
Considering that Best Buy is likely going to fold, this is an obvious choice to replace them.
Just please, no Walmart. Target may be discount, but they have style.
Please let's not act all elitist now. There's nothing wrong with Walmart and they sell more software and computer hardware than ANYONE. I suspect you'll be shown wrong soon enough!
Really taxes the mind to think of a reason for Apple to want to sell to more people, you're right.
Are "global moderator's" always such smart a$$es? I know why they want to do it. As I said, it's a money grab. Is it that taxing to the mind to comprehend how a short-term gain could be a long-term detriment?
And so is Best Buy. Which is why Apple has their own table, their own surroundings, their own displays, and their own flooring. JUST like they will have at Target.
You must work at Apple since you know exactly how it will look. But, even if it does look exactly like Best Buy's display, that is not saying a lot. One solitary wooden table does not a store make. Also, Best Buy sells a lot of high end merchandise. Target does not.
Is it fair to say you're not one of those people?
Yes, that would be fair. I could tell you about my degrees but that would be crass.
No, that would be releasing a 7" iPad or 5" iPod touch.
Actually, I agree with this.
Is it that taxing to the mind to comprehend how a short-term gain could be a long-term detriment?
Could you explain it for us slow-minded ones? Particularly how this is any different from Apple having Authorized Resellers or kiosks in Best Buy.
You must work at Apple since you know exactly how it will look.
And you must work for them to know exactly how it will not. See where that gets you? Without any concrete information, the best we have on which to speculate is existing data. Therefore, the Best Buy model.
There's nothing wrong with Walmart and they sell more software and computer hardware than ANYONE.
I'd really like to see a link about this, b/c I can't find anything that supports either claim.
I am for the Wells Fargo approach.
All new Apple stores will be opened in the vaults of Wells Fargo Banks, and you must make an appointment (after a background check) to purchase an product. Upon sucessfully displaying your Black American Express Card, or your Wells Fargo Home Equity line of credit, you will be allowed to don white lint-free gloves, and actually touch a product.
Apple will then slide into the depths of an Amelio-like dive.
Apple is not a Mercedes, BMW, or even a Kia. Apple is a CONSUMER ELECTRONICS company. And the point of making great products that do great things, is to get them into the hands of as many people as you can.
Target is a discount chain. Apple will damage their brand by associating with them.
Apple is already associated with Target and Red Neck Heaven Walmart and neither has done any damage