You write like a simpleton. Steve Jobs was one of the most upfront, honest and loyal people I ever had the pleasure to work for twice. He called a spade a spade. He never coddled and if you needed accollades it is then that you butted heads with him.
When you figured out it was all about the company you grew up. Around his kids and wife he was a true gentleman.
He was detached and worked his butt off to rebuild Apple.
If he had been given another decade or more to enjoy his creations the world would have been singing his praises as such a caring man.
I won't flame you, but "great years for MS" don't equal great years for the industry. Web browsers and smart phones didn't flourish because of MS. They did it in spite of MS. Exchange, NT, Win 2K, etc. are not great moments for the industry. They neither propelled technology nor usability of technology. They were status quo designed for monopoly locking.
I'm certainly no fan of Bill Gates but I don't like history to be misrepresented.
Tim Paterson, who created QDOS for Seattle Computer, never had any problem with Bill Gates. In fact the company made millions with a license they retained to resell DOS under their own name, and Paterson ended up working for Microsoft where I understand he made many millions more.
No such product as "Mac OS 1.0" ever existed and nothing was ever "stolen." In fact Microsoft had a license from Apple that gave them a lot of cover to develop Windows. The way they got the license was typical high-handedness from Gates, but he got it just the same.
Bill's great talent was never for invention, it was for hardball business dealings. He had real no vision but for money and control, which is why the company has such a vision deficit today. Vision was never in the culture. Steve was all about vision first and money second.
In the final analysis, Apple is the better company than Microsoft because vision led to success, rather than expecting it to happen the other way round. I'll bet even Bill knows that now.
I wouldn't call Jobs as despicable - his attitude is just... hard for people to understand. He had passion and firm belief in his products that it can seemed be intolerable to some people.
I have read & enjoyed his biography - it was honest look into his life. He made mistakes, some grave ones too but he was trying to fix them in his own way; you can't blame someone for trying and admitting.
On the other hand, Bill Gates is always the charmer. If Jobs ever had that infamous 'reality distortion field', Bill has one too and he's using it. I don't really believe Bill is that interested in curing diseases... unless it'll bring him profits.
Mutual respect? lol More like psychological warfare.
Jobs kept it on his bedside not because he appreciated it but because he decided to let go since he was running out of time. When Larry Page visited him for advice, Jobs almost cursed the guy but didn't; he let it go; knowing full well he had done his job and it's time to leave.
Bill (as well as others) took advantage of Jobs' death to make themselves look good.
It would have put him in a better light if years down the road Steve's wife or someone else in the family mentioned this. Bill feeling the need to tell this seems weird and a little creepy.
Mutual respect? lol More like psychological warfare..
They were both members of a very exclusive club. It's not unlike being president. Ex-presidents tend to get along well with each other even if they are from opposing parties because only they share that experience. I suspect it was very much the same with Steve and Bill.
...even if they are from opposing parties because only they share that experience. I suspect it was very much the same with Steve and Bill.
Not in my view. Otherwise, why would Gates now keeps saying good things about Jobs?
To me, that's because he wants the same treatment from people that has treated Jobs. Gates always want that Jobs celebrity status even when he (Gates) passed away. Gates too wanted to leave a legacy.
Somehow, I got a feeling that Gates is either:
a) trying to make a comeback at Microsoft
or
b) just to gain support for his philanthropy business
or
c) both
With Gates, unless he beats Steve Jobs, it's still an ongoing competition even when Jobs has long passed away.
That's some crazy opinion, yeah but it's my gut feeling talking.
What made Jobs such an unusual figure on the technology scene is that he had the implacability of an artist in a field where such values are nearly unheard of.
If you've ever worked with an artist (or been one) you know that it requires supreme faith in one's own vision and a willingness to do whatever is necessary to bring forth that vision. After all, despite self-serving claims of honoring "individuality" and "following your dream", this is a culture that frowns on actually insisting on difference or going against the flow. If you're not willing to push for your unique ideas, you will get precious little support from anyone else.
Of course, the average painter or musician or choreographer is merely butting heads with critics or gallery owners or funders. Jobs took that stance with the larger world of commerce and technology, so it's not surprising that his intransigence is popularly regarded as horrifying monomania. I mean, good God, we barely have any use for stridently independent voices at the most personal and nonprofit levels, it is any wonder that a man that wrote that process across the entire culture would be met with suspicion and hostility?
It's very interesting to note how closely the American adversity to the arts in general, and the popular notion of some worthless fop wasting everyone's time with his self-indulgent doodles in particular, maps to the hostility endlessly directed at Apple. I think Jobs' character, and the priorities that engendered in the company he built, is the reason for that.
I certainly have no facts to dispute what you said, however LONG after Bill Gates was given a version of Mac software to begin developing the predecessor to Excel for the Mac; Multiplan, and months after the Macintosh was put on the market, I purchased my Mac 128K and it was running Mac OS version 1.1g.
As an aside, MultiPlan and Mac OS fit on a single 400K floppy. It's been too long to remember if MS Word 1.0 had Mac OS on the 400k floppy it came on.
I'm sorry I copied your original ideas, of which, in turn, I created third-rate products with no taste (and I mean that in a big way), made BILLION$ from them and became the richest man in the world.
A compliment from someone in the same field is always worth more, because they actually know what they are talking about. A compliment from Gates would mean more to Jobs than from a movie star, or the president (for example).
To reach the level business success of either of these two men, you have to have a few skeletons in the closet. Of course Gates borrowed some stuff from the Mac OS, but Jobs borrowed some of it from Xerox.
The way Gates created DOS from a little known OS and marketed it to IBM was pure business genius and quite creative in my opinion...
These two were different, but both were very creative in their own ways...
The rampant cynicism on display here (sadly) tells me why most of us are what/where we are, and there aren't more people like SJ and BG.
Say what you will, but these are two human beings that, in their own flawed and beautiful ways, made great things happen to a lot of people.
We will look back 45 years from now -- say, around the 100th anniversary of the birth of these two giants -- and wonder how amazing it was that both of them walked the business landscape at the same time, how their paths were intertwined, and warts and all, left the world a significantly better place.
Gates said in that interview that it was strange to have someone as "vibrant" as Jobs die so young.
Certainly it's tragic, but "strange?" This reminds one of nothing so much as Bush Senior's delighted surprise at encountering his first supermarket scanner.
Some of us live in a nation where the overwhelming majority of brilliant, creative men in many fields died of a plague in a single decade. "Strange?" The tragic death of promising men in the prime of life was the norm for more than half my life and I've attended more funerals than all other social occasions combined.
For me, the ultimately irony is that Jobs gay replacement is nonetheless little more than a driven bean counter.
Reading this, I hope you'll forgive me my bitterness. I wish I was able to forget what was lost. I have good days and bad days; this is obviously one of the latter.
I'm sorry I copied your original ideas, of which, in turn, I created third-rate products with no taste (and I mean that in a big way), made BILLION$ from them and became the richest man in the world.
The rampant cynicism on display here (sadly) tells me why most of us are what/where we are, and there aren't more people like SJ and BG.
Say what you will, but these are two human beings that, in their own flawed and beautiful ways, made great things happen to a lot of people.
We will look back 45 years from now -- say, around the 100th anniversary of the birth of these two giants -- and wonder how amazing it was that both of them walked the business landscape at the same time, how their paths were intertwined, and warts and all, left the world a significantly better place.
(Much as I dislike Microsoft) Go, BG!
Whew! Well said. I owe my livelihood to Windows even more than Macs. The MacII was my first PC back in 1988 with A/UX the first operating system really learned under. The lion's share of my living has been using PCs, even as a mainly Java developer.
Both men played hard, sometimes dirty ball, but you've got to, sometimes, take a step back and look at the Grand Design. It is an awesome time for tech and these two people helped make it happen.
The rampant cynicism on display here (sadly) tells me why most of us are what/where we are, and there aren't more people like SJ and BG.
Say what you will, but these are two human beings that, in their own flawed and beautiful ways, made great things happen to a lot of people.
We will look back 45 years from now -- say, around the 100th anniversary of the birth of these two giants -- and wonder how amazing it was that both of them walked the business landscape at the same time, how their paths were intertwined, and warts and all, left the world a significantly better place.
(Much as I dislike Microsoft) Go, BG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii
A compliment from someone in the same field is always worth more, because they actually know what they are talking about. A compliment from Gates would mean more to Jobs than from a movie star, or the president (for example).
I agree right up until the President. That would be extraordinary recognition.
Let's take a vote: repeating this exhausted, endlessly refuted chestnut should be sufficient grounds for immediate, permanent ban, in that it suggests the kind of profound and willful ignorance that can only lead to tears.
Comments
This is the first time I agree with you.
This is a historical moment, truly.
Gates = Great person, despicable businessman.
Jobs = Despicable person, great businessman.
You write like a simpleton. Steve Jobs was one of the most upfront, honest and loyal people I ever had the pleasure to work for twice. He called a spade a spade. He never coddled and if you needed accollades it is then that you butted heads with him.
When you figured out it was all about the company you grew up. Around his kids and wife he was a true gentleman.
He was detached and worked his butt off to rebuild Apple.
If he had been given another decade or more to enjoy his creations the world would have been singing his praises as such a caring man.
I won't flame you, but "great years for MS" don't equal great years for the industry. Web browsers and smart phones didn't flourish because of MS. They did it in spite of MS. Exchange, NT, Win 2K, etc. are not great moments for the industry. They neither propelled technology nor usability of technology. They were status quo designed for monopoly locking.
Speaking myself as an IT professional; Well said.
Tim Paterson, who created QDOS for Seattle Computer, never had any problem with Bill Gates. In fact the company made millions with a license they retained to resell DOS under their own name, and Paterson ended up working for Microsoft where I understand he made many millions more.
No such product as "Mac OS 1.0" ever existed and nothing was ever "stolen." In fact Microsoft had a license from Apple that gave them a lot of cover to develop Windows. The way they got the license was typical high-handedness from Gates, but he got it just the same.
Bill's great talent was never for invention, it was for hardball business dealings. He had real no vision but for money and control, which is why the company has such a vision deficit today. Vision was never in the culture. Steve was all about vision first and money second.
In the final analysis, Apple is the better company than Microsoft because vision led to success, rather than expecting it to happen the other way round. I'll bet even Bill knows that now.
The period between the original Mac and Windows 95 (11 years) was pretty atrocious, primarily due to Microsoft fumbling the GUI.
The greatest thing Bill Gates ever did was to leave Steve Ballmer in charge of Microsoft. God, how I love that guy!!
I have read & enjoyed his biography - it was honest look into his life. He made mistakes, some grave ones too but he was trying to fix them in his own way; you can't blame someone for trying and admitting.
On the other hand, Bill Gates is always the charmer. If Jobs ever had that infamous 'reality distortion field', Bill has one too and he's using it. I don't really believe Bill is that interested in curing diseases... unless it'll bring him profits.
Mutual respect? lol More like psychological warfare.
Jobs kept it on his bedside not because he appreciated it but because he decided to let go since he was running out of time. When Larry Page visited him for advice, Jobs almost cursed the guy but didn't; he let it go; knowing full well he had done his job and it's time to leave.
Bill (as well as others) took advantage of Jobs' death to make themselves look good.
Mutual respect? lol More like psychological warfare..
They were both members of a very exclusive club. It's not unlike being president. Ex-presidents tend to get along well with each other even if they are from opposing parties because only they share that experience. I suspect it was very much the same with Steve and Bill.
...even if they are from opposing parties because only they share that experience. I suspect it was very much the same with Steve and Bill.
Not in my view. Otherwise, why would Gates now keeps saying good things about Jobs?
To me, that's because he wants the same treatment from people that has treated Jobs. Gates always want that Jobs celebrity status even when he (Gates) passed away. Gates too wanted to leave a legacy.
Somehow, I got a feeling that Gates is either:
a) trying to make a comeback at Microsoft
or
b) just to gain support for his philanthropy business
or
c) both
With Gates, unless he beats Steve Jobs, it's still an ongoing competition even when Jobs has long passed away.
That's some crazy opinion, yeah but it's my gut feeling talking.
If you've ever worked with an artist (or been one) you know that it requires supreme faith in one's own vision and a willingness to do whatever is necessary to bring forth that vision. After all, despite self-serving claims of honoring "individuality" and "following your dream", this is a culture that frowns on actually insisting on difference or going against the flow. If you're not willing to push for your unique ideas, you will get precious little support from anyone else.
Of course, the average painter or musician or choreographer is merely butting heads with critics or gallery owners or funders. Jobs took that stance with the larger world of commerce and technology, so it's not surprising that his intransigence is popularly regarded as horrifying monomania. I mean, good God, we barely have any use for stridently independent voices at the most personal and nonprofit levels, it is any wonder that a man that wrote that process across the entire culture would be met with suspicion and hostility?
It's very interesting to note how closely the American adversity to the arts in general, and the popular notion of some worthless fop wasting everyone's time with his self-indulgent doodles in particular, maps to the hostility endlessly directed at Apple. I think Jobs' character, and the priorities that engendered in the company he built, is the reason for that.
No such product as "Mac OS 1.0" ever existed ...
I certainly have no facts to dispute what you said, however LONG after Bill Gates was given a version of Mac software to begin developing the predecessor to Excel for the Mac; Multiplan, and months after the Macintosh was put on the market, I purchased my Mac 128K and it was running Mac OS version 1.1g.
As an aside, MultiPlan and Mac OS fit on a single 400K floppy. It's been too long to remember if MS Word 1.0 had Mac OS on the 400k floppy it came on.
Man, how bloatware has changed things since.
....
Bravo! Nice post!
I get that you're an artist yourself (or at least live/work with one for long periods of time)?
I'm sorry I copied your original ideas, of which, in turn, I created third-rate products with no taste (and I mean that in a big way), made BILLION$ from them and became the richest man in the world.
If it means anything to you....thanks.
Fondly,
Bill
The way Gates created DOS from a little known OS and marketed it to IBM was pure business genius and quite creative in my opinion...
These two were different, but both were very creative in their own ways...
Say what you will, but these are two human beings that, in their own flawed and beautiful ways, made great things happen to a lot of people.
We will look back 45 years from now -- say, around the 100th anniversary of the birth of these two giants -- and wonder how amazing it was that both of them walked the business landscape at the same time, how their paths were intertwined, and warts and all, left the world a significantly better place.
(Much as I dislike Microsoft) Go, BG!
Gates said in that interview that it was strange to have someone as "vibrant" as Jobs die so young.
Certainly it's tragic, but "strange?" This reminds one of nothing so much as Bush Senior's delighted surprise at encountering his first supermarket scanner.
Some of us live in a nation where the overwhelming majority of brilliant, creative men in many fields died of a plague in a single decade. "Strange?" The tragic death of promising men in the prime of life was the norm for more than half my life and I've attended more funerals than all other social occasions combined.
For me, the ultimately irony is that Jobs gay replacement is nonetheless little more than a driven bean counter.
Reading this, I hope you'll forgive me my bitterness. I wish I was able to forget what was lost. I have good days and bad days; this is obviously one of the latter.
Dear Steve,
I'm sorry I copied your original ideas, of which, in turn, I created third-rate products with no taste (and I mean that in a big way), made BILLION$ from them and became the richest man in the world.
If it means anything to you....thanks.
Fondly,
Bill
You mean the ideas he swindled from Xerox?
The rampant cynicism on display here (sadly) tells me why most of us are what/where we are, and there aren't more people like SJ and BG.
Say what you will, but these are two human beings that, in their own flawed and beautiful ways, made great things happen to a lot of people.
We will look back 45 years from now -- say, around the 100th anniversary of the birth of these two giants -- and wonder how amazing it was that both of them walked the business landscape at the same time, how their paths were intertwined, and warts and all, left the world a significantly better place.
(Much as I dislike Microsoft) Go, BG!
Whew! Well said. I owe my livelihood to Windows even more than Macs. The MacII was my first PC back in 1988 with A/UX the first operating system really learned under. The lion's share of my living has been using PCs, even as a mainly Java developer.
Both men played hard, sometimes dirty ball, but you've got to, sometimes, take a step back and look at the Grand Design. It is an awesome time for tech and these two people helped make it happen.
The rampant cynicism on display here (sadly) tells me why most of us are what/where we are, and there aren't more people like SJ and BG.
Say what you will, but these are two human beings that, in their own flawed and beautiful ways, made great things happen to a lot of people.
We will look back 45 years from now -- say, around the 100th anniversary of the birth of these two giants -- and wonder how amazing it was that both of them walked the business landscape at the same time, how their paths were intertwined, and warts and all, left the world a significantly better place.
(Much as I dislike Microsoft) Go, BG!
A compliment from someone in the same field is always worth more, because they actually know what they are talking about. A compliment from Gates would mean more to Jobs than from a movie star, or the president (for example).
I agree right up until the President. That would be extraordinary recognition.
You mean the ideas he swindled from Xerox?
Let's take a vote: repeating this exhausted, endlessly refuted chestnut should be sufficient grounds for immediate, permanent ban, in that it suggests the kind of profound and willful ignorance that can only lead to tears.