CNN investigates Foxconn iPad factory conditions, Apple responds

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  • djrumpydjrumpy Posts: 1,116member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post


    $1 an hour would constitute 17% pay rise over her actual wage



    All of which is totally irrelevant. I receive much less pay than an equivalent position of someone working in New York. The cost of living here is far cheaper than in New York. I wouldn't expect them to be the same. I doubt seriously a cot in her factory dorm costs her $1000+ a month either.



    The simple fact is that she isn't in some forced labor camp. She chose to work there, and could leave at any time. If their local labor laws allow such, then they need to change those laws, labor will be more expensive, and the cost of the products they produce will go up as a result, but somehow implying that these conditions and the local laws are Apple's fault is a bit ridiculous and reeks of emotional journalism.



    As far as her part, if she doesn't like it, quit and go to one of those other excellent factories that offer far better benefits and a safer work environment than Foxconn.
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon Posts: 483member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post


    Its all too easy to point the finger at these factories in China and demand change, yet totally ignore the USA prison manufacturing slave labor on their doorstep.





    Sorry for being so dense. But huh? USA prison manufacturing slave label on their doorstep? Can you please elaborate?
  • battiato1981battiato1981 Posts: 206member
    I do look to Apple to lead the way to not only the best designed products but also safe and fair conditions for all their workers and of course, including the subcontractors who build all the products. It fits with the image that they want people to associate with them and is just good business, business that they can afford. That said, it's got to be extremely hard to continually ramp the production on all these items that the world is clamoring for ... it seems inevitable that especially in a wild west country like China that shortcuts will be made - the combination is a recipe for all sorts of abuses. Apple just has to be diligent and unrelenting in their oversight and pressure on Foxconn and others.



    I'm very curious as to future moves by both Apple and Foxconn in the next five years if iPad demand is anything like what they project. What with the new factory in Brazil by Foxconn, will they team with Apple to erect others in places like Mexico, India or the Mid-East? (As for the US, it could happen too someday, but be so automated as to require minimal hand labor.)



    Ironic that Jobs was so proud of his California factories and obviously dragged his feet before finally off-shoring them, or rather sub-contracting the work out. Wasn't Apple the last domestic computer maker to do so? I think the initial iPod production and the arrival of Tim Cook brought all that to a head.
  • super8seansuper8sean Posts: 70member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


    If she was promised it and wasn't given it, why didn't she quit. Or complain to the government, the courts or whatever.



    No, she put up with it. Why, who knows? But if these folks have an issue with their treatment they need to stay up for themselves. If not doing that is just part of the culture then the culture needs to change. If the laws allow it then they need to get the laws changed.



    And CNN etc need to realize that Apple is one of only something like 50 tech companies that do business with Foxconn and if you look at unit counts, those other 49 do way more business than Apple. Apple's higher prices just cause a higher dollar amount on the final figure. Where are the news stories about them. Where are the petitions. Where's the uproar about the XBox protest where more folks threatened to jump in that single incident than have jumped or tried in the past 5-7 years. No one is looking at Microsoft's factories, etc.



    It's great that people want Apple to clean up the US, clean up China etc. But this is not an Apple issue to handle alone. There are other companies and also governments that should be involved. So where are they



    You say why didn't she quit? Same reason you dont quit when ur boss pisses all over you.

    Its funny how people who have cushy lives can freely criticize the less fortunate. They line them up at foxconn like they are slaves and pack them in dorms with horrible living conditions afterwards. Why didn't she quit? because has to make a living dumbass!
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post


    Its all too easy to point the finger at these factories in China and demand change, yet totally ignore the USA prison manufacturing slave labor on their doorstep.



  • auxioauxio Posts: 1,660member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sierrajeff View Post


    I'm tired of these articles, unfairly singling out Apple merely because it's the biggest name in the game -- and (unfortunately) Apple needs to nip this in the bud now before it snowballs out of control.



    Agreed. Even though I argue against the nonsense which expects everyone to work the same way as people do in these factories, I also argue that it's bigger than any one company.



    It's essentially a problem with the basis for the lifestyle we've come to expect in the western world -- we want to be able to get everything for as cheap as possible, but we also want to be paid well enough to afford everything we want. Unfortunately, that logic just doesn't work.



    So yes, many of these narrow articles stink of investors trying to manipulate the stock market for their own gain. People should be made aware of these problems, but also given the broader picture.
  • lvidallvidal Posts: 154member
    Stupid, tabloid news. That kind of reports only wants to get more visits to their webpage and TV ratings with misinformed material.



    Never saw an iPad before? give me a break. With that start you know the report is plain wrong. Seems like an 80's scandal.



    Of course, every news that says "Apple" is something that sells great these days.



    Just stop already NYT and CNN. Even NYT should be ashamed of that reports they have done recently. Apple has been always a supporter of their Newspaper and Web Page and doesn't deserve that kind of treatment.



    Damn!
  • anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 17,004member
    News flash: CNN takes Apple to task because it cares deeply about exploited workers like "Miss Chen."

  • flaneurflaneur Posts: 3,891member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by geekdad View Post


    We should bring those jobs here to the U.S.!!!!

    Apple can afford to bring those jobs here to the US. I am not faulting them for doing well..I support Apple by buying their products. But with billions in cash reserves they should bring those jobs to the U.S.



    Listen, you should have realized this by now. It's about tectonic shifts in economics and technology that no company or nation can reverse. Where were you in the 1970s when all television manufacturing left the U.S for Japan? Why did you say nothing when all VCR and video camera manufacturing was established in Asia?



    There is an ecology in technology and manufacturing, and in the making of microelectronics it is all in Asia. You can't establish that system here, get it? Any more than the Silicon Valley system of venture technology and design, including software, can be transferred to China!



    If you America-first people do not begin to see the plain truth in front of your face, you are obstructing the retention of what skills we do have in the West. Wise up! It ain't about Apple's cash recovering jobs that were never in the US to begin with!



    Although I wouldn't be surprised if they used that cash to fund an industry here that has never been seen on Earth before, like they're doing with Siri and the iPhone, and iBooks and the iPad. (Largest software group at Apple: Siri, soon to be much larger, guaranteed.)



    I hope I never see this knee-jerk post of yours again. Emphasis is not on "knee."
  • mj4ev3rmj4ev3r Posts: 99member
    Tons of companies use Foxconn for manufacturing:



    Acer Inc. (Taiwan)

    Amazon.com (United States)

    Apple Inc. (United States)

    ASRock (Taiwan)

    Asus (Taiwan)

    Barnes & Noble (United States)

    Cisco (United States)

    Dell (United States)

    EVGA Corporation (United States)

    Hewlett-Packard (United States)

    Intel (United States)

    IBM (United States)

    Lenovo (China)

    Microsoft (United States)

    MSI (Taiwan)

    Motorola (United States)

    Netgear (United States)

    Nintendo (Japan)

    Nokia (Finland)

    Panasonic (Japan)

    Philips (Netherlands)

    Samsung (South Korea)

    Sharp (Japan)

    Sony Ericsson (Japan/Sweden)

    Toshiba (Japan)

    Vizio (United States)
  • auxioauxio Posts: 1,660member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    That perfectly satisfies the criteria I outlined in my previous post for America to be able to compete:



    Quote:

    let's go for 80 hours a week at the lowest wage possible, sleeping in company dorm rooms, eating company meals, no benefits, and no time off for family life or vacations



    Just exchange the term "company" with "prison".
  • anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 17,004member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by geekdad View Post


    We should bring those jobs here to the U.S.!!!!



    What's "these" jobs? Assembly? Shipping? The equivalent of a few dollars worth of value-added per product that someone without even a high-school equivalency can perform?



    Where do you think the value-added components are still going to be coming from?
  • apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,148member
    Some Foxconn workers are apparently whiners. They had better get back to work so that they can get busy and assemble my iPad 3. The conditions there are just fine. So they work 60 hours? Big fucking deal, plenty of people work more than that. Some ignorant people like to mention their suicide rate, which happens to be less than the general population, that's awesome for them! Congratulations to them, they are very fortunate.



    These people can also thank Foxconn that they're not working in some rice field someplace, I bet that's more of a back breaking job than working for Foxconn which also probably pays a bit more than standing in some rice field.



    So in conclusion, quit your whining, get back to work and assemble my new iPad 3, comprende?



    If you don't like it, then quit your job. Whining will get you nowhere.
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon Posts: 483member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by geekdad View Post


    I disagree....for an American company they should base their jobs in the US. It does everything for them and the US......As far as profit goes. Apple has more cash than they know what to do with. At some point American corporations as a whole need to stop offshoring jobs. I do not fault Apple or any other copr for doing well. But you can't argue and say that would hurt them...as it would not slow down sales at all. I agree it would hurt the bottom line by either raising prices slightly or lowering profit margins



    It's not just about cost. It's about flexibility. Did you not read about the interview that Jobs had with Obama? Manufacturing of the scale done in China simply cannot be done in the US any more - at any price.



    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/bu...pagewanted=all
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auxio View Post


    That perfectly satisfies the criteria I outlined in my previous post for America to be able to compete:



    Just exchange the term "company" with "prison".



    The difference is Foxconn workers have the option to leave when they want. Of course, having the option doesn't mean it's a viable one. I certainly will never understand how poor life must be for these people that they choose to work at Foxconn.
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by geekdad View Post


    I disagree....for an American company they should base their jobs in the US. It does everything for them and the US......As far as profit goes. Apple has more cash than they know what to do with. At some point American corporations as a whole need to stop offshoring jobs. I do not fault Apple or any other copr for doing well. But you can't argue and say that would hurt them...as it would not slow down sales at all. I agree it would hurt the bottom line by either raising prices slightly or lowering profit margins



    WAY off base - for many, many reasons.



    1. Apple isn't an American company any more. It is a global company in every sense of the word.



    2. Apple doesn't set the working conditions at Foxconn. They do, however, audit and insist on improvements - unlike the entire rest of the electronics market.



    3. Even if China's factories were shut down, Apple would not be manufacturing in the U.S. Between liability, environmental, and health and safety laws, as well as taxes and infrastructure costs, there's no way they could.



    4. The fact that wages are lower in China than in the U.S. is a useless figure. Cost of living is different, too.



    5. If we want to apply U.S. standards to China, why don't we apply French or German or Dutch standards to the U.S.? Our work week is longer than in any of those countries and we get less vacation time. So CNN, like almost every other American company, is 'enslaving' their workers - at least compared to European rules.



    The entire issue is ridiculous.
  • paulmjohnsonpaulmjohnson Posts: 1,374member
    Let's look at the positives here - it's not many years ago that Apple were so small that nobody gave the remotest crap what they did.



    This comes with the territory of being a big company. Nike went through it a few years ago, McDonalds are constantly being watched etc. On the one hand, it's not especially fair that big companies end up being held to a higher standard than others, but I quite like the idea that it might raise standards.......
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 40,389member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ4Ev3r View Post


    Tons of companies use Foxconn for manufacturing:



    Yes, but none of the others are the largest corporation on the planet by market cap, so they have absolutely no responsibility for the condition of the workers in a country over whose laws they have no control. Apple does, however.
  • applezillaapplezilla Posts: 941member
    Google, Amazon, HP, Dell, Samsung and others are innocent as the driven snow.



    China didn't even exist until Steve Jobs invented it.
  • kent909kent909 Posts: 642member
    It's a good distraction to focus on someone else. I live in southern Oregon and a company called CertainTeed just advertised for some production jobs. The ad said: Temporary full time positions, day or night shifts available. No benefits and the shifts are 12 hours. In a area where unemployment is 10% I guess you can make this work. I am going to speculate that if unemployment was 6% they would probably at least offer 8 hour shifts. If this job does not appeal to you there are "on call" dishwasher jobs also. I guess all those people who say don't bad mouth America have a few things to be touchy about. Got to run I have to go out an buy a new $19 DVD player. Mine has dust on it.

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