Apple now worth more than Google and Microsoft combined [u]

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  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    You mean a dividend? It should lower their effective tax rate, and it benefits the stockholder's bottom lines positively.



    Lowers the tax rate but also lowers their interest rate from investing that money. I wonder what the differences would be for a set amount for a set time frame. It seems to me that held cash can gain interest indefinitely but a dividend will only lower their taxes once for each amount paid out.
  • monstrositymonstrosity Posts: 2,042member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    2nd condescending put down today, I must be doing something right. LOL



    I stuck Dr Millmoss on ignore a long time ago, never looked back. FTR I agree with your observation regarding AAPL movements.
  • mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 6,799member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post


    Notice the new talking points by the haters. Apple is TOO successful, has TOO much money, is taking TOO much profits in the mobile industry, thereby starving innovation. Seems everybody is clucking their tongues about Apple these days. IT wanks were just fine with the Microsoft hegemony but Apple is just TOO big to accept. God forbid Apple should call the shots these days.



    These same people laughed at the notion of Apple ever being so successful, just 18 short months ago.
  • wovelwovel Posts: 948member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    Why not simply use cash to offset debt in the calculation and add what's left back? In this model had Apple had $400B in cash it would be worthless. Or am I missing something lol



    Your not. That is the Fallacy of EV a metric invented by debt laden companies to confuse investors. If Apple had 461 billion in cash, they would have a EV of $0.



    While EV shows you what it would take to buy out a company free and clear, it is not a good measure of value. Debt and Cash both figure into investors decisions and are already components of the stock price. EV is not a way to describe company worth. Many companies peak in EV just prior to filing bankruptcy.
  • dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Lowers the tax rate but also lowers their interest rate from investing that money. I wonder what the differences would be for a set amount for a set time frame. It seems to me that held cash can gain interest indefinitely but a dividend will only lower their taxes once for each amount paid out.



    Less income from investments, yes, but their liquid assets can't be returning very much in this ultra-low interest rate environment. Probably a lot of it is held in commercial paper and other kinds of short term notes. Besides, Apple's mission is not to become the world's largest bank or investment house. Dividends are not generally one-time events. Most companies pay them out consistently at an annual rate paid quarterly. Really good companies increase them regularly.



    You know, a lot of pension funds and mutual funds will not even consider buying a stock that pays no dividend. Some are prohibited from doing so. Something to keep in mind while you ponder whether Apple paying a dividend would be good for you as an investor, in more ways than one.
  • eric475eric475 Posts: 177member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mateo999 View Post


    On a vaguely related note, of the 97B Apple has in cash and investments , $64 remains offshore, and thus cannot be repatriated to the US without paying taxes. So not all of the 97 is available to distribute to shareholders free and clear.




    $64 billion in cash held offshore? Wow.



    China assembles Apple products and exports it to America which makes it look like China is reaping huge profits. But it doesn't seem so to me.



    With so many American corporations keeping their profits offshore, that will definitely skew the trade imbalance figures (US-China trade, US-Japan trade).
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Apple's next goal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Aramco



    An estimated $8,000 billion to Apple's $460 billion. Apple still hasn't met the highest market cap in history for a publicly traded company. Back in 2007 Exxon was at $480 billion when PetroChina topped $1,000 billion.
  • SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 24,153member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    It's water under the bridge. I should have ignored you, my bad.



    The Ignore list is our friend.
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 39,892member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Apple's next goal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Aramco



    SEVEN HUNDRED NINETY BILLION DOLLARS REVENUE IN ONE YEAR?!



    Billion. BILLION.



    Yeah, guess that is their next goal.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    SEVEN HUNDRED NINETY BILLION DOLLARS REVENUE IN ONE YEAR?!



    Billion. BILLION.



    Yeah, guess that is their next goal.



    I bet their profit was higher a to higher than Apple's revenue and would even bet they are holding more cash assets than Apple's entire market cap.



    At least that shows that Apple isn't so high that their growth can't be sustainable.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by focher View Post


    Why would that be a good idea? AAPL would have to drop below that level to make it worthwhile for me to exercise a put option at that price. As I am long on Apple (and well ahead of even a $350 price) then there are only three reasonably identifiable risks. 1) Apple's value crashes and goes below whatever put option price I get. 2) Apple's value crashes and drops below a level that still gives me a reasonable return on my investment. 3) Apple goes out of business.



    Notice I even included the last one in the "reasonable" list...when, of course, it's ludicrous. So you want me to pay 2% for essentially a scenario that is less likely than me winning the lottery. Hmmm. I wonder if you would like to be on the other side of the deal?



    Worst case scenario with options: They expire. You lose 2%.



    Worst case without options: Apple goes under $350 and you lose mega percent.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    I realize your last paragraph was meant as a joke (the Cook Islands indeed), but it does point out the difficulty of using this kind of cash in a responsible fashion.



    If Apple owned a whole country they could make the laws.



    They could also buy Aircraft Carriers and Battleships. And have prisons.



    Keeping secrets would be easier.
  • fourthletterfourthletter Posts: 35member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GQB View Post


    iPhone revenues alone exceed GOOG valuation.



    Revenue = Gross cost of materials+manufacture+marketing+distribution+profi t



    Only idiots with no understanding of basic finance compare it to anything else
  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,152member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    I just want to be the guy who details the cars before they are sold



    Lol, ok 50% of the gold.
  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,152member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Apple's next goal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Aramco



    An estimated $8,000 billion to Apple's $460 billion. Apple still hasn't met the highest market cap in history for a publicly traded company. Back in 2007 Exxon was at $480 billion when PetroChina topped $1,000 billion.



    Is that a trillion in US Terminolgy?
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    Is that a trillion in US Terminolgy?



    Yeah, that's USD.
  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,152member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    The Ignore list is our friend.



    Thank you, good point.
  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,152member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Yeah, that's USD.



    Wow. Well I didn't realize that had already been achieved. So Apple getting there is not a fantasy.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    The Ignore list is our friend.



    Remember when we use to use the phrase "Google is your friend" to encourage people to look stuff up themselves?





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    Wow. Well I didn't Realize that had already been achieved. So Apple getting there is not a fantasy.



    Yeah, even among publicly traded companies they have to more than double their current world lead in market cap in order to have the highest, non-adjusted market cap for a publicly traded company.



    Someone with a little free time could figure out when these milestones will occur based on their growth rate. Maybe I'll email Horace Dediu to see if he's up for it.
  • anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 16,758member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    You mean a dividend? It should lower their effective tax rate, and it benefits the stockholder's bottom lines positively.



    Please don't dispense dodgy tax advice. If a substantial chunk of Apple's cash is held in low tax environments abroad -- as it most likely is -- the company and its shareholders will incur a massive tax bill if they bing it back to the US to pay their dividends.



    Independent of that, you do realize that dividends are paid from after-tax income for corporations, right?
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