Apple reportedly squeezing supplier to stop building MacBook Air clones from Asus

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  • mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    Nope, you were wondering why Israel so I answered the question. It seems to be a hot bed of tech at the moment and that's why Apple is investing there, to gain access to new technologies such as that SSD controller company which they recently bought. And Apple is also opening research centers there.





    Don't backpedal. You and that Zither character are both guilty of attempting to politicize the topic. A discussion of overseas outsourcing can include mention of Israel since Apple has recently become involved there, but interjecting political opinions with a hard bias is where you guys both went off track.
  • tooltalktooltalk Posts: 766member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mightymike View Post


    Why bother to innovate when you can copy Apple and just litigate your way to market share. Samsung's doing it and now Asus, but it's tough going with all the uncertainty of litigation. Samsung has yet to to feel the biggest sting when Apple drops them as a supplier for a $10 billion dollar loss. The only copying Asus will be dong is paying lawyers millions just like Samsung and end up a battered company. These Wintel clone makers must be real desperate. Sounds like a dying gasp from another PC maker who can't make it in a post PC world!



    Not sure who's going to win in that scenario. Well, let's see, Samsung loses $10B from Apple, or $10B less from Samsung's last year gross, $150B (about 6.6% of all sales), but the demand from its mobile units (growing at 230+%/year) makes up for the lost order. Other mobile manufacturers no longer have to wait for phone components or delay their product release.



    For Apple, in the meanwhile, there would be major shortages in everything from display, mobile cpus, nand flash. High defect/low yield rates from LG and other Asian fabs and pricey components from aging Japanese manufacturers erodes Apple's margin and reputation. Apple's new semi fabs would cost $90B and at least 5 years to get up to Samsung's yield rate. (* $90B figure based on Samsung semi unit's annual capital investment, $15B in 2011 alone, reportedly $45B in 2012 *).



    Now, that doesn't add up. Samsung doesn't sound that desperate to be honest. Let T. Cook do his work.
  • alonso perezalonso perez Posts: 385member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Don't backpedal. You and that Zither character are both guilty of attempting to politicize the topic. A discussion of overseas outsourcing can include mention of Israel since Apple has recently become involved there, but interjecting political opinions with a hard bias is where you guys both went off track.



    Once more, with feeling, Israel is not a low-cost location and has no chance of becoming a manufacturing hub, so it has no relevance to the topic at hand, much less the politics of it.
  • nagrommenagromme Posts: 2,834member
    I?m going to have to question the reliability of the source on this one...



    If Pegatron did truly stop ASUS production... then what?s the real reason? Is ?bullying" a fair term or just link bait? Did Apple ask for more capacity because they actually need it? Did Pegatron make a smart call on who to make machines for if capacity isn?t sufficient for everyone? Or did Apple not need the capacity, and just asked Pegatron to shut down part of their operation to spite insignificant ASUS? Who knows? But that would not be at all like Apple?s past behavior. They?d take legal action (and I?d say they?d be well justified) instead.
  • screamingfistscreamingfist Posts: 971member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    And what does that have to do with the article?



    The Zenbook looks identical to the MacBook Pro. That's lawsuit-worthy if Apple has the appropriate patents on the Air design.



    Apple can't constrain production of other companies. That's also probably lawsuit worthy if it's done in an illegal manner.



    no it doesn't look identical to the macbook pro. it looks similar but that is a different thing.

    however, they are in no danger whatsoever of overrunning apple and in fact the zenbook has lost its luster due to touchpad issues etc. What is good about this is that it adds more fuel to the fire that apple is run by douchbags and is a company for douchebags. the more people that see and hear about this type of thing the better. people need to know the true 'apple' and not this magical, fantasy, lie that has been created.
  • mechanicmechanic Posts: 803member
    Please articles like this are complete hearsay, hell the source at the china times could be a mail room boy, or a worker for asus. What a crock, when they actually get a credible source that is reliable maybe there would be some truth to this garbage.
  • screamingfistscreamingfist Posts: 971member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Perhaps you and myapplelove can explain how Lion doesn't even have a few useful features.



    lion has a useful feature: filevault 2. oh wait, apparently that can be cracked in 40 minutes or less now.
  • mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alonso Perez View Post


    Once more, with feeling, Israel is not a low-cost location has no chance of becoming a manufacturing hub, so has no relevance to the topic at hand, much less the politics of it.



    Sorry but although the discussion may not appeal to you, there is often mention on these boards of the possibility of Apple manufacturing in the US again. Your request that the mention of Israel be stopped by comparing it to the US as an equally unlikely manufacturing site is simply weak. The fact that you think it is not ever going to happen doesn't make it off limits for discussion.
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 40,857member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post


    What is good about this is that it adds more fuel to the fire that apple is run by douchbags and is a company for douchebags. the more people that see and hear about this type of thing the better. people need to know the true 'apple' and not this magical, fantasy, lie that has been created.



  • conwaycfconwaycf Posts: 35member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by geekdad View Post


    you mean have 4 wheels and 2 to 4 doors and use a combustion based engine? Maybe have a windsheild with wipers...... your right...all cars are different...



    With better patent law and enforcement, we would have had flying cars by now. And force fields that repel rain.
  • dickprinterdickprinter Posts: 1,060member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Perhaps you and myapplelove can explain how Lion doesn't even have a few useful features.



    Just the trackpad swipe gestures, alone, are worth the price of upgrading to Lion.
  • danyakdanyak Posts: 26member
    I love Apple and often post comments defending the company or whatever - but as an antitrust attorney, I have to say that this, shall we say "reeks" of the Microsoft tactics that led to a major antitrust investigation. If Pendragon is a key supplier of this type of laptop, and Apple does not have IP rights that exclusivity is required to protect, we could be looking at a serious antitrust issue.
  • tundraboytundraboy Posts: 1,462member
    Thanks to Apple, Pegatron acquired a lot of valuable expertise in building MacBook Airs. If you think that Apple will just stand idly by and let Pegatron use this acquired expertise to build products that directly compete with the MacBook Air, then you're the most naive person in the world.



    Is this an antitrust violation? Nah. Subcontractor exclusivity is legal in the U.S. and pretty much all over the world. Especially if there is a significant technology transfer from contractor to subcontractor, which is the case with Apple and its contract mfrs.
  • alonso perezalonso perez Posts: 385member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Sorry but although the discussion my not appeal to you, there is often mention on these boards of the possibility of Apple manufacturing in the US again. Your request that the mention of Israel be stopped by comparing it to the US as an equally unlikely manufacturing site is simply weak. The fact that you think it is not ever going to happen doesn't it make it off limits for discussion.



    I have no power to tell you what to write. I am pointing out the very obvious and objective fact that Israel is not and has no chance of becoming a significant electronics products manufacturing hub for the foreseeable future.



    Apple is outsourcing nothing to Israel, they have purchased Anobit and will establish a semiconductor R&D operation around it. Israel has exceptional semiconductor engineering talent (the critically important Pentium M was developed there by Intel), and Apple is increasingly obtaining semiconductor design capability, so Israel is a natural location.



    Perhaps you are misconstruing outsourcing (what Apple does with Pegatron or Foxconn), with having overseas operations (what Apple did by buying Anobit). These are totally different things. Apple is did not go to Israel to shave a few bucks off somebody's paycheck, and no company in its right mind would go to Israel for that. It went there for talent.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post


    Just the trackpad swipe gestures, alone, are worth the price of upgrading to Lion.



    Not to mention what those swipe gestures can do within the Lion apps. It's certainly made my Mac more useful and for only $29.



    We see this every time. These same people who say that Snow Leopard is great and Lion sucks will trumpeting Lion and saying Mountain Lion(?) sucks just like they said Leopard was great and Snow Leopard sucked a few years back.
  • freddychfreddych Posts: 266member
    Solution: Pegatron forms a wholly-owned (or jointly-owned JV with Asus) subsidiary that manufactures the Zenbook by leasing space and/or time in its manufacturing line.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by danyak View Post


    I love Apple and often post comments defending the company or whatever - but as an antitrust attorney, I have to say that this, shall we say "reeks" of the Microsoft tactics that led to a major antitrust investigation. If Pendragon is a key supplier of this type of laptop, and Apple does not have IP rights that exclusivity is required to protect, we could be looking at a serious antitrust issue.



    Does that mean Apple isn't allowed to take its business elsewhere? I'm not sure what anti-trust law requires a customer to continue doing business with a company who aren't meeting their needs or acting in a way they find unscrupulous.
  • freddychfreddych Posts: 266member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Does that mean Apple isn't allowed to take its business elsewhere? I'm not sure what anti-trust law requires a customer to continue doing business with a company who aren't meeting their needs or acting in a way they find unscrupulous.



    Yes, you are right. However, anti-trust laws in the United States look at whether or not there was an intent to stifle competition and in some cases whether or not the actions simply had the effect of stifling competition.



    Just like Microsoft (without anti-trust laws) was free to give away its software in order to destroy the profitability of Netscape, Apple can threaten to move its business elsewhere to get Pegatron to drop Asus products.
  • gustavgustav Posts: 806member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    I really don't understand why Apple is so offended by these copycats. People who buy them were not ever going to be Apple customers anyway. The cloners can't compete on price, quality, service, warranty, ecosystem, software, operating system reliability, resale value or ease of use.



    You know that and I know that, but the average customer walking into Best Buy doesn't know that. They'll see something that looks as good as a MacBook and assume it is. And besides, why should they get a free ride off of Apple's design work?
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by freddych View Post


    Yes, you are right. However, anti-trust laws in the United States look at whether or not there was an intent to stifle competition and in some cases whether or not the actions simply had the effect of stifling competition.



    Just like Microsoft (without anti-trust laws) was free to give away its software in order to destroy the profitability of Netscape, Apple can threaten to move its business elsewhere to get Pegatron to drop Asus products.



    But Apple isn't giving their product away to stiffle competion, they are threatening to take their business away. That sounds like the complete opposite thing MS did.



    Now I see how one could argue that Apple is stifling competition with this maneuver but one could also argue that Apple giving more room to Pegatron to pursue other customers actually permits more competition to take place.



    What I don't get is why Apple isn't all up in Intel's business for creating the MBA clone reference models.
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