Mountain Lion signals end of OS X support for older Macs

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  • rot'napplerot'napple Posts: 1,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    They have been remarkably upgradable up to this point. Macs normally can run approximately 3-4 major revisions, which is way better than almost any Windows based computer.



    Agreed... My White 24" iMac I got in April 2006 with Intel Inside came with OS 10.4 and I upgraded to 10.5 then 10.6, and maybe I could do 10.7 but haven't checked into it. However, it is time for me to upgrade and this summer seems like the perfect time to do it!



    Anybody heard anything of the next iMacs?

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  • muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,219member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    This information conflicts with the release notes which states that in order to install ML the Mac must run 64 bit kernel which excludes several other models including some Mac Pros



    Which Mac Pros are not 64 bit? Mac Pro 1,1 appears to be.
  • kpomkpom Posts: 529member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ChristophB View Post


    I'm finding it hard to believe they'll drop support for machines because of integrated graphics support. A 2008 Air is not so old in Mac terms. Can someone translate for me from the original links where Apple said this is a certainty?



    They are referring only to the original Air. The late 2008 Air will still run Mountain Lion. Remember, the original Air had the very slow Intel graphics and will be 4.5 years old by the time Mountain Lion is released. The late-2008 had NVIDIA graphics and was a much-improved machine.
  • mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post


    I have a PC from 2003 that I was able to install Windows 7 (32bit) onto. Arguably, it was a high-end machine. Also arguably, Apple makes ONLY high-end machines, correct? Originally, the computer had XP. (I didn't dare put Vista on the thing!) Apple is cutting off computers pretty much prior to 2006.



    Since 1998, there have been only four major Windows OS upgrades for consumers (not counting ME, since it was a downgrade.) Mac has had 9 major OS upgrades (9, 10.0, .1, .2, .3, .4 but not counting the PPC to Intel transition, .5, .6, .7) since that time. Just for comparison.



    <end troll>





    Windows 95

    Win 98 was released in May

    Win 2000

    Win XP

    Win Vista

    Win 7



    Win 7 may be the exception and Windows experts may be the exception, but in general Windows machines never get upgraded due to many different reasons.
  • mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by muppetry View Post


    Which Mac Pros are not 64 bit? Mac Pro 1,1 appears to be.



    Does kernel_task say 64 bit in Activity Monitor. There is a difference between kernel and applications. It has to do with the boot rom. I think the Mac Pro 1,1 boots 32 bit but runs 64 bit applications.
  • andysolandysol Posts: 2,506member
    I think people must be misreading this.... You can still run lion and your computer doesn't stop working if you don't qualify. Lion is still great....
  • shidellshidell Posts: 187member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Win 7 may be the exception and Windows experts may be the exception, but in general Windows machines never get upgraded due to many different reasons.



    Um, what? Most Windows machines in business ARE upgraded. Perhaps not all consumer machines, but business machines, definitely.
  • alex3917alex3917 Posts: 30member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    The fact is though, I don't think there is a single documented case of this actually being true despite it being said every single time. It always turns out that there is a valid hardware-related reason for not supporting the old hardware, but that never stops folks like this from making this same "fantasy gripe" every single time.



    That's a flat out lie. Siri was successfully ported to work on older iPhones, and yet Apple shut them down just this week.
  • mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shidell View Post


    Um, what? Most Windows machines in business ARE upgraded. Perhaps not all consumer machines, but business machines, definitely.



    I have not seen this to be common. Many businesses are still running XP.
  • christophbchristophb Posts: 1,365member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KPOM View Post


    They are referring only to the original Air. The late 2008 Air will still run Mountain Lion. Remember, the original Air had the very slow Intel graphics and will be 4.5 years old by the time Mountain Lion is released. The late-2008 had NVIDIA graphics and was a much-improved machine.



    If they kill support for the integrated won't this also impact the low power modes on Automatic Graphics Switching on the MBPs?
  • kazkamkazkam Posts: 60member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post


    Dropping support for 4+ year old machines isn't fragmentation. Fragmentation is when the device you just got can't run the new OS to be released next month, or which was even released before you purchased. This is called keeping the OS lean and efficient by not having to support a million older configurations. IMO dropping new OS support for anything beyond 3 years is fair game and acceptable.



    I don't think you can so easily dismiss the fragmentation argument, I think it's one of the biggest problems facing Apple right now and in the near future, in relation to OS X. I agree they can't be expected to support every new feature on every old device, within reason, and I'm not sure where that line is.



    BUT, the fact remains that Lion adoption has plateaued at around 32% (http://bit.ly/ADPFIw), which isn't that great, IMO, considering how long it's been out. For whatever reason... don't like it, don't need it, older hardware, new high-bandwidth upgrade mechanism, w/e. I worry the fragmentation will get even worse with Mountain Lion, with only mostly current Lion users adopting, and not necessarily all of them.



    The fact is, Apple builds beautiful high-quality hardware. It's been one of its greatest selling points, but it becomes moot if the software outgrows the hardware too fast and people are left with beautiful high-quality door stops (OK, that's not fair, those old machines will still work, just not with what is billed as Apple's future... iCloud).



    All of a sudden the advantage of the interoperability of all of my Apple devices becomes irrelevant because only three of the current eight Apple devices I use can upgrade to iOS 5 or Lion.



    I truly wonder how many of these decisions are based on technical limitations of old hardware, the time and resources required to develop for and support older devices, or the drive to coerce people to buy new hardware.
  • taugust04taugust04 Posts: 43member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Does kernel_task say 64 bit in Activity Monitor. There is a difference between kernel and applications. It has to do with the boot rom. I think the Mac Pro 1,1 boots 32 bit but runs 64 bit applications.



    There are a number of Macintosh models that are able to run Lion but do not run the kernel in 64bit mode. I believe it's a combination of the motherboard chipset limitations at the time, along with the fact that most of those models are using a 32bit version of the UEFI firmware. Looking at the list, all the newer models from the last 3 years have 64bit versions of the UEFI firmware installed. These look to be the models cut from Mountain Lion support.
  • sennensennen Posts: 1,405member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jamesmcd View Post


    Arg. This old story. My poor 2006 iMac got cut from Lion (which was a good thing since it still runs all the software my new computer can't).



    I'm beginning to worry about my 2011 Sandy Bridge MacBook Pro 17"! I wonder if it will be supported by 10.9.....



    Really?
  • mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alex3917 View Post


    That's a flat out lie. Siri was successfully ported to work on older iPhones, and yet Apple shut them down just this week.



    With Apple, running is not the same as running well. I think the noise canceling microphones is one thing that makes it work better on 4S. I have not tested it but I suspect there may be some unacceptable lag in response time as well. They sometimes err in that regard too like when they allowed iOS 4 to run on 3G hardware. It ran crappy.
  • madhatter61madhatter61 Posts: 116member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    The only thing that's the "same old story" here is this comment.



    Every time a new OS or program comes out and old hardware is deprecated we get people like this saying that it's a scam or that it has to do with politics or money and that they really could support the older hardware if they wanted to.



    The fact is though, I don't think there is a single documented case of this actually being true despite it being said every single time. It always turns out that there is a valid hardware-related reason for not supporting the old hardware, but that never stops folks like this from making this same "fantasy gripe" every single time.



    All we have to do is look at the vintage of the Intel graphics integrated chip series. The 950 and 3100 series are not good enough anymore. Intel was never really great in graphic anyway. It is truly no surprise the new Mountain Lion OS is not supporting ancient hardware.
  • deepriverdeepriver Posts: 21member
    If you have 100 billion in the bank, you could surely continue support for a five year old Mac.
  • mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by deepriver View Post


    If you have 100 billion in the bank, you could surely continue support for a five year old Mac.





    I think the support for 5 year old Macs is that they have very good resale value.
  • madhatter61madhatter61 Posts: 116member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shidell View Post


    Um, what? Most Windows machines in business ARE upgraded. Perhaps not all consumer machines, but business machines, definitely.



    My son works in IT and he just got a new HP laptop with Windows 7. He is having all kinds of fun (frustration really) trying to interface with '97 programs that won't work period on the Windows 7 API



    Many companies were still using IE6 ... crappy browers ... full of malware holes ... many didn't upgrade til MS forced their hand. They don't upgrade unless forced to in many instances.



    We all have opinions though don't we.
  • mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 6,798member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shidell View Post


    Fragmentation!



    They need to support OpenGL 3.x and those Integrated GPUs do not.
  • nagrommenagromme Posts: 2,834member
    It?s not dropping support for those older Macs if they still get critical updates (if any are needed) for the OS they CAN run (you know, the one we?re all running right now).



    Apple has a long history of offering maintenance/security updates for non-current OS X versions. No reason to think that will change. Those peoples? Macs are still ?supported,? they just don?t get all the new stuff.
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