Apple opening up supplier factories to third-party environmental inspections

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Comments

  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,156member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    You may as well get used to the criticisms as they're way past playing the underdog card. It's no longer the little guy fighting the world.



    Exxon gets it's fair share of accusations too. It just comes with the territory.



    You are seriously comparing Apple creating some of the best jobs China probably has for low end workers with The company that brought us The Exxon Valdez oil spill? Really?
  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,156member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by F1Ferrari View Post


    So what hasn't been blamed on Apple in the media lately? The extinction of the dinosaurs, the melting of the ice caps, the hole in the ozone layer, and gas prices going up. I'm sure I've missed a few...



    How crappy Androids are is another obvious link, after all they did try to copy Apple ...
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    You may as well get used to the criticisms as they're way past playing the underdog card. It's no longer the little guy fighting the world.



    Exxon gets it's fair share of accusations too. It just comes with the territory.







    Apple is a scrappy little underdog who overcomes the powers of darkness. Against all the odds, with media conspiracies being the most recent tool of the forces of evil, Apple always prevails.



    I'm not worried. Good and truth and light always wins when combined with a pioneering spirit and a dedication to the customer first.
  • gatorguygatorguy Posts: 14,338member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    You are seriously comparing Apple creating some of the best jobs China probably has for low end workers with The company that brought us The Exxon Valdez oil spill? Really?



    An accident from almost 25 years ago is all that you've seen Exxon criticized for? That has no more to do with today's Exxon than Apple being saved from failing by Microsoft about that same time does now.



    Without making any judgements or political statements, rather just an observation, the world's biggest companies will always be blamed for issues that people think they're big enough, powerful enough and rich enough to solve. Along for the ride will be suspicions about how they use that power, what's going on behind closed doors. We don't believe what the banks say. We're wary of just what powerful governments are doing in back rooms. Some people suspect the oil companies secretly influence many of the world's events.



    With Apple now the richest public company on earth, it unfortunately will be under the same microscopes. That's the way the world works.
  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,156member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    An accident from almost 25 years ago is the all that you've seen Exxon criticized for? That has no more to do with today's Exxon than Apple being saved from failing by Microsoft about that same time does now.



    Without making any judgements or political statements, rather just an observation, the world's biggest companies will always be blamed for issues that people think they're big enough, powerful enough and rich enough to solve. Along for the ride will be suspicions about how the use that power, what's going on behind closed doors. We don't believe what the banks say. We're wary of just what powerful governments are doing in back rooms. Some people suspect the oil companies secretly influence many of the world's events.



    With Apple now the richest public company on earth, it unfortunately will be under the same microscopes. That's the way the world works.



    Ok, I'll agree with you on that.



    p.s. It seemed like it was yesterday to me .... 25 years really!??
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Secular Investor View Post


    Yea, iPhones are made of solid steel LOL



    They do have a stainless steel band... but you do know my comment was ironic hyperbole, right?
  • feynmanfeynman Posts: 1,087member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by b9bot View Post


    So to be fair, where are the other PC companies that use these same facilities? Why don't they open up? Apple isn't the only company using Foxconn and these other suppliers. Why don't the other companies pony up and make it right too. At least Apple is trying to do something about this while the others hide like scared mice.



    So while I completely agree with you, why don't we work together (as in, you and I) to write an ePetition (petitiononline) to ask for all the other suppliers to open up and show us what their working conditions are like, or to get third party audits to reveal what their conditions are like.



    b9bot If you don't want to work together to do this, would anyone like to?
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post


    They'll probably find some minor contradictions, etc. and Apple will be defined as liars, hiding the truth, white-washing, etc. Not like Apple can be 100% aware of whats going on at these suppliers at all times, who themselves no doubt try to hide things from Apple. It's tough enough to be aware of everything going on at your OWN company, let alone suppliers across the world, under a communist government, with hundreds of thousands of employees.



    Meanwhile, everyone will ignore the elephant in the room, which is that Apple is the only company in the industry actually opening up its suppliers to inspections, audits, and to media outlets in this unprecedented way. Al the other big players are slinking in the dark, giddy at the attention Apple is getting, who is acting as the scapegoat for the entire industry (as well as other industries).



    That's exactly my concern.



    I've done quality audits or ordered outside audits for most of my career. I don't care how good you are, there are always things that can be improved. Even if Apple is an order of magnitude better than the competition, the press will jump on them over the issues that remain rather than recognizing that, in comparison, Apple is doing a great job.



    And for the "if there are problems, Apple needs to do a better job" crowd, you've obviously never run a manufacturing facility. No matter how good of an effort you make, there are always issues. And if you get to the point that the issues become exceedingly rare, you typically tighten the standards to find even more things that you can improve. Plants with issues (but who have a plan to address them) do not concern me as much as plants which claim to have zero issues. The latter are simply burying their head in the sand and ignoring reality.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by Feynman View Post


    So while I completely agree with you, why don't we work together (as in, you and I) to write an ePetition (petitiononline) to ask for all the other suppliers to open up and show us what their working conditions are like, or to get third party audits to reveal what their conditions are like.



    b9bot If you don't want to work together to do this, would anyone like to?



    This whole electronics supply chain seems to be a cesspool of nastiness. Any light you can shed on these multinational gadget makers will be appreciated.



    For the maximal good to emerge from this situation, it would be great to have companies in addition to Apple clean up their acts.
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nemacx View Post


    This whole program isn´t about the press or the competitors that are doing close to nothing. It is about Apple´s customers and about Apple itself. About everyone that works for Apple Inc., be that directly or within supply and distribution.



    It´s a message of corporate philosophy and mentality, which is embodied throughout and within the organism Apple as corporation and as continuum stands for, to all its constituents that make up the Apple cosmos. Be that as a designer, coder, engineer, sales & marketing, distributor, sales floor agent, pr & ad agent, xEO, xOO, janitor, security, assembly line worker etc.... and as USER and CUSTOMER. We ALL are Apple, even the Apple-Haters if not in particular them.



    It is a statement that affection to detail is first and foremost affection to the individual using the product and that Apple is working hard to not loose the individual human being in the industrialized production process, which so often happens in most, if not all technical appliances that are mass manufactured (produced). That is what SJ & Apple distinguished from everyone else and why many flocked to Apple, even throughout its "Dark Ages", and continue to do. It is the appeal that Apple stands for.



    Apple answers to and adresses the individual in the public, not the public "en large" and its modern day self-serving proponents in media with its warped and distorted perception of how things ought to be. Apple has a face and speaks to a face, not to "the public".



    IMHO



    That's all overly simplistic. Apple is being chastised in the press even though they're doing far more than anyone else and have the best conditions out there. Apple is probably losing customers over something where a rational customer would say "Apple is making a major effort to address the problem so I should continue to buy their products".



    With the current media frenzy, the companies who do nothing are being rewarded while Apple is being penalized for being the best.
  • gatorguygatorguy Posts: 14,338member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    That's all overly simplistic. Apple is being chastised in the press even though they're doing far more than anyone else and have the best conditions out there. Apple is probably losing customers over something where a rational customer would say "Apple is making a major effort to address the problem so I should continue to buy their products".



    With the current media frenzy, the companies who do nothing are being rewarded while Apple is being penalized for being the best.



    Do we know what anyone else is doing? Do we even know Apple has the best conditions out there? The only ones I've read of recently are Apple, and I imagine the only ones you've read about too. For now they're the ones getting the attention, especially so since they've become the richest in the industry.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Do we know what anyone else is doing? Do we even know Apple has the best conditions out there?



    One can always assume that Apple is the best, no matter which metric is under examination.
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Do we know what anyone else is doing? Do we even know Apple has the best conditions out there? The only ones I've read of recently are Apple, and I imagine the only ones you've read about too. For now they're the ones getting the attention, especially so since they've become the richest in the industry.



    We do know that Apple is the only one who conducts audits. This was confirmed by several factories back when the suicides first became public knowledge.



    Given that Apple is the only one who cares enough to conduct audits and to require the factories to improve, it's a pretty good bet that they're ahead of the game.
  • gatorguygatorguy Posts: 14,338member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    We do know that Apple is the only one who conducts audits. This was confirmed by several factories back when the suicides first became public knowledge.



    Given that Apple is the only one who cares enough to conduct audits and to require the factories to improve, it's a pretty good bet that they're ahead of the game.



    I certainly wasn't saying Apple isn't the most attentive to worker safety and well-being. Just felt it was premature to say definitively that they ARE the best when others haven't been profiled...



    yet.
  • gtrgtr Posts: 3,165member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by F1Ferrari View Post


    So what hasn't been blamed on Apple in the media lately? The extinction of the dinosaurs, the melting of the ice caps, the hole in the ozone layer, and gas prices going up. I'm sure I've missed a few...



    Actually, technically, gas prices rising could be blamed on the dinosaurs.



    Fucking dinosaurs.
  • nemacxnemacx Posts: 18member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    That's all overly simplistic. Apple is being chastised in the press even though they're doing far more than anyone else and have the best conditions out there. Apple is probably losing customers over something where a rational customer would say "Apple is making a major effort to address the problem so I should continue to buy their products".



    With the current media frenzy, the companies who do nothing are being rewarded while Apple is being penalized for being the best.





    Apple is being chastised because of what it stands for. Media in the West are private owned companies, close to exclusively, which all go by the same rule. News=Profit=News, whether the actual info is verified or not is of lesser importance, as long as profits are ensured and potential compensation doesn´t eat into profits to deep. Just look at Murdoch and "News of the World", almost exemplary.



    But my point is, that Apple gave this kind of response primarily to its dominion, as described above, and not to those "outside" of it, who get "their" answer along the way.



    E.g., I spoke to some maintenance personnel recently, one guy being a stout Apple-bois as turned out later in the conversation, while the other, bitching about his droid-HTC flamed Apple for being proprietary and sniffing on user data, carrying an angry and grim expression on his face whilst at it. My reply:"... at least Apple doesn´t sell your your data as Google does, and Android is Google ..." He looked at me and his expression immediately softened, replying: "...Google has it anyway ...", NO flame, it almost sounded apologetic.



    What sense does it make to answer to such a public (media)? None, and Apple didn´t. Media is worse than a pack of Hyenas tearing its prey apart, worth even less, but one can use it to communicate to his flock. Apple did, and so did the others, being the Hyenas, effectively communicating fear and submission



    /chapel mode off
  • technarchytechnarchy Posts: 296member
    It looks like hard work, certainly not fun work, but I'm not seeing any sweat shop. The wages and living standards are magnitudes higher than many in China.



    If Apple had a similar factory here, it would go out of business fairly quick. Between the unions, the EPA, taxes, and Obamacare, manufacturing electronics here is damn near impossible unless you want to pay $900 for an iPhone.
  • nemacxnemacx Posts: 18member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post


    It looks like hard work, certainly not fun work, but I'm not seeing any sweat shop. The wages and living standards are magnitudes higher than many in China.



    If Apple had a similar factory here, it would go out of business fairly quick. Between the unions, the EPA, taxes, and Obamacare, manufacturing electronics here is damn near impossible unless you want to pay $900 for an iPhone.



    Nah, around 60$ to 70$ more.



    Read this, pretty sound.



    A friend of mine is in hardware, non-IT. He went to China because of cost. And China is dead-cheap on anything iron, bolts, screws etc. Turned out that when he needed a sample it took a few hours, in Germany several weeks. So he staid, enjoyed lower wages, ditched his wife and got chinese fish, still wonder if they too sample faster
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nemacx View Post


    Nah, around 60$ to 70$ more.



    Read this, pretty sound.



    A friend of mine is in hardware, non-IT. He went to China because of cost. And China is dead-cheap on anything iron, bolts, screws etc. Turned out that when he needed a sample it took a few hours, in Germany several weeks. So he staid, enjoyed lower wages, ditched his wife and got chinese fish, still wonder if they too sample faster



    That's not correct. To say it's only $60-70 more is only focus on one small aspect of the product cycle which misses the point of people foolishly wanting the iPhone to be 100% American made. If you really want to bring jobs back to the US you need to bring every part of the manufacturing to the US. That means that all machines for automation are US designed and made. That means that every employee working on components that get shipped to a contracted facility for final assembly is US run. Most of that is literally impossible without a major retooling as many of the components and licensing are only outside the US.
  • nemacxnemacx Posts: 18member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    That's not correct. To say it's only $60-70 more is only focus on one small aspect of the product cycle which misses the point of people foolishly wanting the iPhone to be 100% American made. If you really want to bring jobs back to the US you need to bring every part of the manufacturing to the US. That means that all machines for automation are US designed and made. That means that every employee working on components that get shipped to a contracted facility for final assembly is US run. Most of that is literally impossible without a major retooling as many of the components and licensing are only outside the US.



    Licensing? Contracts? All due to run out at some point. What´s been done once can be done again and what hasn´t been done yet, waits to be done now, what´s been done more than once can be done at any time. It happened when jobs left the US or EU etc. The question is something else entirely.



    Why would you want to have back OLD jobs and OLD technology, which had been outsourced because it they were uncritical and cheaper somewhere else? Ahh, yes, because your system hasn´t adapted. Now, might just stop milking profits and mind doing what hasn´t been done yet.



    The iPhone is 100% US made, today. Guys in Cup, US invented, engineered and crafted it and then had it assembled and shipped back in volume. You don´t honestly believe that Picasso´s paintings aren´t 100% Picasso because the paint and canvas weren´t handmade by Picasso himself, do you? If you do you are truly lost my friend
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