I am so sick and tired of all these "labor" groups trying to find fault with Apple's factory suppliers in China. Who the fuck are we to complain about another country's labor laws? Could you imagine if Chinese groups started complaining about our labor laws? We think we are so high and mighty on the economic scale that we can dictate to other countries how we think they should run their companies. We can't even provide jobs for our own citizens right here in America!! We send our manufacturing business to other countries because it's cheaper to manufacture the products. Unions and labor lobbyists have completely ruined our working middle-class's chance of having any real chance of an economic future worthy of retirement. Meanwhile, The Chinese will sit back, collect all this economic wealth we give them, and they will laugh all the way to being an economic super-power.
If you don't like your "idea" of where and how electronics and clothing have been manufactured overseas, then stop buying those products. That means you need to stop using your precious smartphone, tablets, computers, televisions, kitchen appliances, and take those clothes off your back!! Go live in a fucking cave, hunt your food, cook it over a fire and STFU!!
I'm 37 years old and recently went back to school to earn my BA with high hopes it would help me get a decent job. I'm now unemployed and up to my neck in debt. Thanks American labor unions and elected politicians for forcing companies to send our manufacturing jobs overseas!!
If the workers in these factories are even remembered in a few years time by some of the people here claiming to be looking out for their interests, then I will be very surprised.
Oh, and by the way, your good intentions cost them their jobs:
This whole affair isn't about China, it's about America. The unions, regulators, and taxes have driven labor abroad, and now they want to piss all over China to somehow force those jobs back. Not going to happen.
Our government and special interest groups have made manufacturing and labor impossible in the USA, which has utterly destroyed the middle class.
China wont make our mistakes, and they will continue to thrive. So before we start pointing fingers, remember how you voted in the last election first and blame yourself.
You are partially correct, though I'm sure by special interest you're referring to unions, in which case you are entirely wrong. You need to tune off Faux News, or at least expand your news reading list. First, the Wall St. Journal (not a leftwing paper by any means) is reporting that corporate taxes are at the lowest they have ever been, and in fact, are, on average, lower than most other western countries. Now you have the super rich running elections with their superpacs and what's Washington talking about? Lowering corporate taxes, so yeah, special interests are responsible, but not the ones you think. It is the same corporations that are outsourcing jobs that are lobbying congress for more free trade markets and lower taxes. It isn't taxes that is driving corporations to move jobs oversees, it is their greedy owners who want to make a bigger profit by exploiting the Chinese workforce. You want to blame something for manufacturing jobs being shipped overseas? Blame free trade.
It costs apple nothing to import all the products being manufactured in China, so of course, they are going to seek a cheaper labor force where there really aren't labor standards. It won't last long, as Chinese workers are moving from poverty to the middle class and are demanding a better quality of life and better job conditions. Chinese workers will unionize and labor standards will improve, and corporations will seek a new labor force to exploit: Africa.
As always, you people are entitled to your opinions, but not your own facts.
Foxconn should raise their pay to something decent and surprise audits should happen 10 times a year completely randomly. Eventually the whole thing would be tidied up. Yes they are bored, but Foxconn should continue to try ways to alleviate their boredom. You'll never win entirely, but Foxconn should be in a position to listen to their workers concerns and to try to help solve their work problems. If they limited every worker to a particular job for 3 months and then reshuffled that may have a very positive affect on their well being.
Disney Corporation owns the ABC News network. The fact that the Steve Jobs Trust is Disney?s largest individual shareholder, coupled with Disney CEO Bob Iger now having a seat on Apple?s board of directors, certainly helped win the official approval from Apple. It also raises questions on a possible conflict of interest with this report.
Hopefully justice is brought to these workers.
She would say that wouldn't she! This self-appointed NGO gets a lot of free publicity, and probably nice interview fees from making these allegations, backed up by no evidence whatever.
This is just hearsay evidence. Unsubstantiated allegations about 2 anonymous workers allegedly complaining who are allegedly aged between 16 - 18 years old.
Since when is working between 16-18 child exploitation? Get real! It might be in some liberal Utopia, but not in the rest of the world. I was working at that age and it did me no harm.
The most amazing fact so far to come out of this artificial furore, is that Foxconn's workers are paid $1.75 an hour. That is a massive, massive increase in recent years. 10 or 15 years ago the average Chinese worker was earning just $1 a day, so this means 1,400% to 1,750% rise in a few years.
That's a huge, huge improvement in their standard of living
Moreover, the cost of living in China is a fraction of that in the West. So by Chinese standards these workers are exceptionally well paid, which is why there are long queues trying to get a job at Fozconn.
Apple should open an office inside Foxconn with Apple & FLA staff permanently based there. That way they could walk around daily making sure everything is ok. Add a hotline for employees to call in confidence to report anything and Foxconn would not be able to get away with any abuses for long before Apple caught up with them. Much better than planned inspections where Foxconn can easily hide things.
Foxconn should raise their pay to something decent and surprise audits should happen 10 times a year completely randomly. Eventually the whole thing would be tidied up. Yes they are bored, but Foxconn should continue to try ways to alleviate their boredom. You'll never win entirely, but Foxconn should be in a position to listen to their workers concerns and to try to help solve their work problems. If they limited every worker to a particular job for 3 months and then reshuffled that may have a very positive affect on their well being.
Honestly you should probably read up on the situations there before saying they should raise the pays of workers there, in actual fact cost of living is lower & jobs that aren't in the foreign run are generally significantly lower paying, so these workers would be getting better pay then others in the same town or city at other jobs, wonder why so many people want to work at these places?.
the minimum wage between different countries is very very different.
say in the US, from what i can tell minimum wage is about $7.25 & can go lower then $5 per hour.
Australian national Minimum wage is $15.51 per hour, from my perspective americans are animals for underpaying people, but cost of living is different. (by the way AU & US dollars are currently 1 to 1) But hey depends on your perspective, im not saying things cant improve but, its not change in one company thats needed, it has to be bigger then that otherwise you are wasting your breath.
Foxconn should raise their pay to something decent and surprise audits should happen 10 times a year completely randomly. Eventually the whole thing would be tidied up. Yes they are bored, but Foxconn should continue to try ways to alleviate their boredom. You'll never win entirely, but Foxconn should be in a position to listen to their workers concerns and to try to help solve their work problems. If they limited every worker to a particular job for 3 months and then reshuffled that may have a very positive affect on their well being.
10 times a year? That's talking out your rear end!! Do you think these audits are free? Who pays for them? The consumer does! Stand up and let the blood flow to your brain before you make such inane comments.
Honestly you should probably read up on the situations there before saying they should raise the pays of workers there, in actual fact cost of living is lower & jobs that aren't in the foreign run are generally significantly lower paying, so these workers would be getting better pay then others in the same town or city at other jobs, wonder why so many people want to work at these places?.
the minimum wage between different countries is very very different.
say in the US, from what i can tell minimum wage is about $7.25 & can go lower then $5 per hour.
Australian national Minimum wage is $15.51 per hour, from my perspective americans are animals for underpaying people, but cost of living is different. (by the way AU & US dollars are currently 1 to 1) But hey depends on your perspective, im not saying things cant improve but, its not change in one company thats needed, it has to be bigger then that otherwise you are wasting your breath.
I'm not sure if you read my endless tirades but long story short I'm back in Oz after six years in Malaysia. What I'm seeing is that it is really hard to understand what is going on in the developing world. In summary, it ain't pretty there. Yes, worker's rights are important but it's not only the money. The systematic challenges throughout the socioeconomic fabric of Asia needs to be looked at more closely.
Why here in sunny Perth good ol' Curtin University is facing a massive backlash due to giving Malaysia's most heinous and corrupt first lady an honourary degree. I think Curtin didn't take into consideration how bad government is in Malaysia. (Also bl**dy ironic since Curtin has probably one of the highest percentages of Malaysian students ~ who, have to go to Curtin or overseas universities because, oh, institionalised racism [in Malaysia, so far here in oz a few yobos/bogans/etc have shouted at me but it's all good]).
1) Weir spoke to someone admittedly 17yo. Why is that too young? I was in college and living and working full time on my own at age 17.
2) With so many people vying for jobs at Foxconn why would Foxconn have to hire underage workers that would violate laws and/or contracts?
I agree with you on on points 1 and 2. The only caveats would be if the 17 year old was still in high school. Then they should not working long hours o anything that would interfere with the job of graduating high school. College is another story. You are on your own to mange work school and your grades.
One point I want to make is that Apple should be commended for allowing inspections at all!
But if they want to really make this effective they need to have some sort of non affiliated body to do the inspections. Then these need to be un announced inspections. I worked in retail 20 years ago. When we would have general managers or regional managers or some sort of VIP inspection the stores everyone knew about it in advance. The stores never looked so good as when the VIPs were coming. There was always enough checkout people at the cash registers so no lines. The bathrooms and aisle ways were spotless. The bathrooms were never so clean as then. All the displays and merchandising were perfect. So i kinda see this inspection and filming to fall into that category for me. Everyone knew what was coming and prepared for it. I am not saying there is some really bad smoking gun here that Apple did not want people to see. But to truly be effective they have to be un announced.
EDIT We would even schedule labor for the visits. We made sure only the fastest most friendly employees worked that day to put a nice little shine on it all.
Comments
$142? Only 3.5 years to buy an iPad? Really?
Do you understand the notion of buying power?
Hopefully justice is brought to these workers.
Care to explain what injustice has taken place?
Cognitive dissonance is a powerful force.
Ever heard of Occam's razor?
If you don't like your "idea" of where and how electronics and clothing have been manufactured overseas, then stop buying those products. That means you need to stop using your precious smartphone, tablets, computers, televisions, kitchen appliances, and take those clothes off your back!! Go live in a fucking cave, hunt your food, cook it over a fire and STFU!!
I'm 37 years old and recently went back to school to earn my BA with high hopes it would help me get a decent job. I'm now unemployed and up to my neck in debt. Thanks American labor unions and elected politicians for forcing companies to send our manufacturing jobs overseas!!
Hopefully justice is brought to these workers.
If the workers in these factories are even remembered in a few years time by some of the people here claiming to be looking out for their interests, then I will be very surprised.
Oh, and by the way, your good intentions cost them their jobs:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknap...n-three-years/
Mind if they stay at your house while they get back on their feet?
It's the right thing to do.
This whole affair isn't about China, it's about America. The unions, regulators, and taxes have driven labor abroad, and now they want to piss all over China to somehow force those jobs back. Not going to happen.
Our government and special interest groups have made manufacturing and labor impossible in the USA, which has utterly destroyed the middle class.
China wont make our mistakes, and they will continue to thrive. So before we start pointing fingers, remember how you voted in the last election first and blame yourself.
You are partially correct, though I'm sure by special interest you're referring to unions, in which case you are entirely wrong. You need to tune off Faux News, or at least expand your news reading list. First, the Wall St. Journal (not a leftwing paper by any means) is reporting that corporate taxes are at the lowest they have ever been, and in fact, are, on average, lower than most other western countries. Now you have the super rich running elections with their superpacs and what's Washington talking about? Lowering corporate taxes, so yeah, special interests are responsible, but not the ones you think. It is the same corporations that are outsourcing jobs that are lobbying congress for more free trade markets and lower taxes. It isn't taxes that is driving corporations to move jobs oversees, it is their greedy owners who want to make a bigger profit by exploiting the Chinese workforce. You want to blame something for manufacturing jobs being shipped overseas? Blame free trade.
It costs apple nothing to import all the products being manufactured in China, so of course, they are going to seek a cheaper labor force where there really aren't labor standards. It won't last long, as Chinese workers are moving from poverty to the middle class and are demanding a better quality of life and better job conditions. Chinese workers will unionize and labor standards will improve, and corporations will seek a new labor force to exploit: Africa.
As always, you people are entitled to your opinions, but not your own facts.
Ever heard of Occam's razor?
I hate Occam's razor. Occam's razor exists so that stupid people can simplify complicated things at the expense of reality.
However, I would say that I think the hours are high and living accommodation could be substantially better.
Their accommodation is considerably better than most that I have seen in China. I travelled through there this year, standard housing is pretty grim!
i started working when i was 16, my step brother was almost 15, he wanted to work at mcdonalds to get some cash to buy stuff he wanted.
the is bs, why its even given the light of day & wasting my time by reading such retardation i have no idea.....The End...
Disney Corporation owns the ABC News network. The fact that the Steve Jobs Trust is Disney?s largest individual shareholder, coupled with Disney CEO Bob Iger now having a seat on Apple?s board of directors, certainly helped win the official approval from Apple. It also raises questions on a possible conflict of interest with this report.
Hopefully justice is brought to these workers.
She would say that wouldn't she! This self-appointed NGO gets a lot of free publicity, and probably nice interview fees from making these allegations, backed up by no evidence whatever.
This is just hearsay evidence. Unsubstantiated allegations about 2 anonymous workers allegedly complaining who are allegedly aged between 16 - 18 years old.
Since when is working between 16-18 child exploitation? Get real! It might be in some liberal Utopia, but not in the rest of the world. I was working at that age and it did me no harm.
The most amazing fact so far to come out of this artificial furore, is that Foxconn's workers are paid $1.75 an hour. That is a massive, massive increase in recent years. 10 or 15 years ago the average Chinese worker was earning just $1 a day, so this means 1,400% to 1,750% rise in a few years.
That's a huge, huge improvement in their standard of living
Moreover, the cost of living in China is a fraction of that in the West. So by Chinese standards these workers are exceptionally well paid, which is why there are long queues trying to get a job at Fozconn.
Foxconn should raise their pay to something decent and surprise audits should happen 10 times a year completely randomly. Eventually the whole thing would be tidied up. Yes they are bored, but Foxconn should continue to try ways to alleviate their boredom. You'll never win entirely, but Foxconn should be in a position to listen to their workers concerns and to try to help solve their work problems. If they limited every worker to a particular job for 3 months and then reshuffled that may have a very positive affect on their well being.
Honestly you should probably read up on the situations there before saying they should raise the pays of workers there, in actual fact cost of living is lower & jobs that aren't in the foreign run are generally significantly lower paying, so these workers would be getting better pay then others in the same town or city at other jobs, wonder why so many people want to work at these places?.
the minimum wage between different countries is very very different.
say in the US, from what i can tell minimum wage is about $7.25 & can go lower then $5 per hour.
Australian national Minimum wage is $15.51 per hour, from my perspective americans are animals for underpaying people, but cost of living is different. (by the way AU & US dollars are currently 1 to 1) But hey depends on your perspective, im not saying things cant improve but, its not change in one company thats needed, it has to be bigger then that otherwise you are wasting your breath.
Foxconn should raise their pay to something decent and surprise audits should happen 10 times a year completely randomly. Eventually the whole thing would be tidied up. Yes they are bored, but Foxconn should continue to try ways to alleviate their boredom. You'll never win entirely, but Foxconn should be in a position to listen to their workers concerns and to try to help solve their work problems. If they limited every worker to a particular job for 3 months and then reshuffled that may have a very positive affect on their well being.
10 times a year? That's talking out your rear end!! Do you think these audits are free? Who pays for them? The consumer does! Stand up and let the blood flow to your brain before you make such inane comments.
Yes, really. Costs in China don't equal costs in the U.S. Can you get accommodation in the U.S. for $24 a month? or all your meals for $48 a month?
Two-thirds of your pay packet left after paying for accommodation and meals is not "hardly supporting yourself".
that sounds like more than have left at the end of each month.
10 times a year?
5 times a year, whatever.
Honestly you should probably read up on the situations there before saying they should raise the pays of workers there, in actual fact cost of living is lower & jobs that aren't in the foreign run are generally significantly lower paying, so these workers would be getting better pay then others in the same town or city at other jobs, wonder why so many people want to work at these places?.
the minimum wage between different countries is very very different.
say in the US, from what i can tell minimum wage is about $7.25 & can go lower then $5 per hour.
Australian national Minimum wage is $15.51 per hour, from my perspective americans are animals for underpaying people, but cost of living is different. (by the way AU & US dollars are currently 1 to 1) But hey depends on your perspective, im not saying things cant improve but, its not change in one company thats needed, it has to be bigger then that otherwise you are wasting your breath.
I'm not sure if you read my endless tirades but long story short I'm back in Oz after six years in Malaysia. What I'm seeing is that it is really hard to understand what is going on in the developing world. In summary, it ain't pretty there. Yes, worker's rights are important but it's not only the money. The systematic challenges throughout the socioeconomic fabric of Asia needs to be looked at more closely.
Why here in sunny Perth good ol' Curtin University is facing a massive backlash due to giving Malaysia's most heinous and corrupt first lady an honourary degree. I think Curtin didn't take into consideration how bad government is in Malaysia. (Also bl**dy ironic since Curtin has probably one of the highest percentages of Malaysian students ~ who, have to go to Curtin or overseas universities because, oh, institionalised racism [in Malaysia, so far here in oz a few yobos/bogans/etc have shouted at me but it's all good]).
</soap box ~ I promised I'd behave>
1) Weir spoke to someone admittedly 17yo. Why is that too young? I was in college and living and working full time on my own at age 17.
2) With so many people vying for jobs at Foxconn why would Foxconn have to hire underage workers that would violate laws and/or contracts?
I agree with you on on points 1 and 2. The only caveats would be if the 17 year old was still in high school. Then they should not working long hours o anything that would interfere with the job of graduating high school. College is another story. You are on your own to mange work school and your grades.
One point I want to make is that Apple should be commended for allowing inspections at all!
But if they want to really make this effective they need to have some sort of non affiliated body to do the inspections. Then these need to be un announced inspections. I worked in retail 20 years ago. When we would have general managers or regional managers or some sort of VIP inspection the stores everyone knew about it in advance. The stores never looked so good as when the VIPs were coming. There was always enough checkout people at the cash registers so no lines. The bathrooms and aisle ways were spotless. The bathrooms were never so clean as then. All the displays and merchandising were perfect. So i kinda see this inspection and filming to fall into that category for me. Everyone knew what was coming and prepared for it. I am not saying there is some really bad smoking gun here that Apple did not want people to see. But to truly be effective they have to be un announced.
EDIT We would even schedule labor for the visits. We made sure only the fastest most friendly employees worked that day to put a nice little shine on it all.
Honestly you should probably read up on the situations there before saying they should raise the pays of workers there.
Nightline's conclusions were the main two issue were worker boredom and low wages. Honestly you should open your ears before telling me to read up.