The Biggest Threat to Obama's Health Care "Reform" - Reality

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  • tontontonton Posts: 14,063member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    Ahh...yes. You are correct. You wouldn't force them to only take Obamacare patients. I was wrong. I apologize.



    However...back to my original point...you would force them to take Obamacare patients. That you would force them to take any patients is my concern.



    What do you imagine some of the unintended consequences of your coercion might be?



    That the medical profession would end up similar to the legal profession?



    DOOM, I tell you!
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    That the medical profession would end up similar to the legal profession?



    DOOM, I tell you!



    You don't think there would be any negative* unintended consequences of your coercion?



    *Well, besides the one you mentioned.
  • jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    I'm curious tonton: under what circumstances is the use of violent force against peaceful people good and legitimate?
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post


    I'm curious tonton: under what circumstances is the use of violent force against peaceful people good and legitimate?



    It seems just about anytime tonton thinks someone isn't doing what he thinks they should.



  • tontontonton Posts: 14,063member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    You don't think there would be any negative* unintended consequences of your coercion?



    Sure there would be. No doubt about it. Some of them we can predict.



    But those would be FAR outweighed by the benefits. You can see it in the countries that have such a system. The poor and middle class get pretty good health care, and the rich can pay for better care. Doctors still make a living, as do insurers. It's a system that's in practice and it's a system that is proven to work.



    Some more ideas:



    Duty practice could be reduced with tenure, and adjusted for specialty. New doctors would need to take mostly public sector patients, while more experienced doctors could take more private sector patients.



    Shortage of physicians? Allow more imported doctors, and subsidize med school. Yes, it's an expense, but it's a small cost compared with the wonderful prospect of universal coverage.
  • tontontonton Posts: 14,063member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post


    I'm curious tonton: under what circumstances is the use of violent force against peaceful people good and legitimate?



    No force is necessary. Has violent force EVER been used against lawyers who prefer not to take public cases? Then please stop with the bullshit.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    Sure there would be. No doubt about it. Some of them we can predict.



    But those would be FAR outweighed by the benefits.



    As you speculate.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    You can see it in the countries that have such a system. The poor and middle class get pretty good health care, and the rich can pay for better care. Doctors still make a living, as do insurers.



    I'm guessing there are hidden costs that you're either ignoring or unaware of.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    It's a system that's in practice and it's a system that is proven to work.



    Actually that's not proven at all. There are serious long-term cracks in the systems you speak of.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    Some more ideas:



    Duty practice could be reduced with tenure, and adjusted for specialty. New doctors would need to take mostly public sector patients, while more experienced doctors could take more private sector patients.



    Shortage of physicians? Allow more imported doctors, and subsidize med school. Yes, it's an expense, but it's a small cost compared with the wonderful prospect of universal coverage.



    You are a control freak aren't you. You just can't or won't let the market work here. \
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    No force is necessary.



    Then good! If you need not use force, then we can assume you won't use it! Great!
  • tontontonton Posts: 14,063member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    You are a control freak aren't you.



    Rules and regulations are effective in management. I can only imagine how you must have been in Kindergarten.



    "But Mrs. Jones, I WANT to talk in class. It's my First Amendment right! You can't use force against me! I don't WANT to take a nap. I want to play with the toys NOW! I brought my Tonka truck and it's my property! I have the RIGHT to play with it whenever I want!!!! WAAAAAAAH!!!!"



    Oh, I forgot. you were home schooled. That actually explains a lot.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    I can only imagine how you must have been in Kindergarten.



    I can only imagine what you would be like if you had any real power.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    "But Mrs. Jones, I WANT to talk in class. It's my First Amendment right! You can't use force against me! I don't WANT to take a nap. I want to play with the toys NOW! I brought my Tonka truck and it's my property! I have the RIGHT to play with it whenever I want!!!! WAAAAAAAH!!!!"



    I find it amusing that you would use an institution of coercion to somehow make your point. Whatever point that is.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    Oh, I forgot. you were home schooled.



    Actually, I wasn't. I don't know where you got that.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    That actually explains a lot.



    It does? Like what?





    But then none of this does anything to diminish or hide your obvious control-freak tendencies.
  • jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    No force is necessary. Has violent force EVER been used against lawyers who prefer not to take public cases? Then please stop with the bullshit.



    What would be the consequences if a doctor refuses to take Obamacare patients?
  • tontontonton Posts: 14,063member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post


    What would be the consequences if a doctor refuses to take Obamacare patients?



    The same as the consequences if a lawyer refuses to take a public defense case.



    And I don't know where you get off on calling public cases Obamacare cases. As BR pointed out, there is no public option in the Affordable Care Act. The doctors would be dealing with the insurers. Did you mean Medicare patients?
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    The same as the consequences if a lawyer refuses to take a public defense case.



    \ Stop beating around the bush. What are those consequences?
  • tontontonton Posts: 14,063member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    \ Stop beating around the bush. What are those consequences?



    Are you daft? THE SAME AS IN THE LEGAL PROFESSION. You know what that is, unless you're retarded.



    1. Warning.

    2. Censure.

    3. Loss of license to practice.



    Does this arrangement work in law? Why wouldn't it work in medicine? Is there any "use of force" involved?
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    Are you daft? THE SAME AS IN THE LEGAL PROFESSION. You know what that is, unless you're retarded.



    1. Warning.

    2. Censure.

    3. Loss of license to practice.



    Actually I didn't know those because I'm not an expert on the law profession so keep your insults to yourself.



    So, if they don't do what the state says, the state will revoke their license for their profession and the right to earn a living in the profession they trained for.



    Got it.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    Is there any "use of force" involved?



    What happens if they refuse to stop practicing law?
  • brbr Posts: 8,253member
    Yes yes you don't believe in the Social Contract. We get it. That's what this boils down to as usual. It's like everyone on this board except you and Jazz are working out math problems when all of a sudden you two jump in with "YEAH, WELL, I DON'T BELIEVE IN NUMBERS." Great. If that's what you really believe, you aren't useful at all in the conversation.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BR View Post


    Yes yes you don't believe in the Social Contract. We get it. That's what this boils down to as usual.



    Hi BR. So good to see you. How are you doing? Still hating on people and stewing in your bitterness and anger at the world?
  • tontontonton Posts: 14,063member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    What happens if they refuse to stop practicing law?



    You tell me. Show me a case where that's happened.



    What happens if you refuse to stop parking in a handicapped spot? What happens if you refuse to pay the fine? What happens if you refuse to stop driving once your license is revoked?



    Guess what, we don't know what happens to you when that happens because you don't do it.



    Rules are rules and they are not evil.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    You tell me. Show me a case where that's happened.



    You're avoiding the question.



    A person who has trained and worked peacefully in a profession, insists on continuing to practice this profession despite the state saying he or she doesn't have permission.



    What happens next?
  • brbr Posts: 8,253member
    Laws bad. Violence.
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