I worked in a pit barbecue at 15 years for just over $3 an hour. The kitchen was 100F in the winter. Had a paper route before that. Worked sheet rocking, taping and floating over the summers which was an upgrade from roofing in the 100+ heat the summer before If I got a living wage for those jobs no one who earns a wage to live on could afford fajitas, new papers, roofs or walls.
I learned that I needed to learn a skill that permitted air conditioning.
I worked at the end of the "green chain" at a lumber mill in the middle of nowhere. We pulled 2X4 after 2X4 off that chain for days on end, lived 6-8 to a bunk shed, had nowhere to spend our money except at an improvised bar, were beaten by the big guy who went psycho each weekend because he worked too many overtime shifts and hadn't seen a female in 2 months.
I learned that I needed to learn a skill so that I wouldn't be treated like a complete asshole all my life. It still didn't work.
I agree, that the solution should not be solely an Apple problem, but good conditions for workers is a worthy goal.
I disagree that it's a worthy goal, as "good" is a word that can be interpreted differently according to who you ask. The activist's definition of "good" is not the same as my definition of "good".
They even mentioned how they wanted Unions in China. Well that's just great! That is not a worthy cause at all. As if there's not enough corruption and crap in China already and they want to bring even more corruption by inviting criminal Unions. I am anti-Union and I don't see any need for any such criminal enterprises. And I especially do not want a bunch of criminals in charge of the workers who assemble my Apple products.
Speaking of beef. Lets say I'm at McDonald's. I order a Big Mac. While my sandwich is being made the McDonald's employee slips and fails. They then sue me because it was my sandwich they were making when they fell. Is that pretty much what this petition is suggesting?
I disagree that it's a worthy goal, as "good" is a word that can be interpreted differently according to who you ask. The activist's definition of "good" is not the same as my definition of "good".
They even mentioned how they wanted Unions in China. Well that's just great! That is not a worthy cause at all. As if there's not enough corruption and crap in China already and they want to bring even more corruption by inviting criminal Unions. I am anti-Union and I don't see any need for any such criminal enterprises. And I especially do not want a bunch of criminals in charge of the workers who assemble my Apple products.
That's pretty broad reaching about Unions. They have a great place in US history in regions where there was no competition and persons were treated close indentured servants. A union partnering with a company for the success of that company is a good thing. A union running a protection racket across the whole industry and across sovereign states is another thing entirely. Let them organize and work with Foxconn. It would be a very un-China thing to do.
My feeling is that it depends upon how involved Apple was in the setup of the production line. If they trusted Wintek to not expose workers to toxic chemicals that might have been naive but not a mistake that would warrant Apple having to pay damages. However, if Apple gave express permission or were otherwise closely involved in the decision to use n-hexane I think it becomes a different matter.
Wintek is the company they should be signing a petition for, not Apple. Remember people, Wintek, Foxconn are all companies contracted to build or manufacture things for Apple. None of those people are employed by Apple and Apple really doesn't have to care about any of them to a certain point. But Apple does care. So explain that to the people that try an petition against Apple. To many people think that all of these people employed in China are employed by Apple. There NOT!!!
I don't deny that Unions have done some good in the past, many decades ago, but I do not see much evidence of that nowadays.
Yes but China isn't the same thing as US nowadays. They are China nowadays which is a few first world cities in a 3rd world country. The first world being funded on the backs of the 3rd world.
these articles leave a lot of blanks and questions.
For example I'm not saying these workers don't have a real greviance but even this article says the issue was settled with bonuses paid out and the chemical banned, so now what's happening?
are the workers just trying to get more money? after wintek paid out, now because of the Apple's billions it's apple's turn? From the article I can't tell if anybody checked the workers claims, i.e health records, payout agreements received etc (like did anybody do any real investigative reporting or just because it's apple bashing it's true?)
I have worked in Asia and even more so than here we have to be careful in checking things out, in many parts of Asia the $ is KING. Case in point the Proview iPad trademark case, they sold the trademark for about 50k (big Hong Kong court backs apple) but now realizing Apple's got money they want $2 billion.
"We have been pressuring Apple, and its new CEO Tim Cook, for years to compensate"
Why? shouldn't they be pressuring Wintek? Seriously I've worked in Asia for years , like cab drivers there, they probably think Apple a rich foreigner is an easy mark.
As for SumofUs, at first they described Foxconn as a hell hole with children working there, then when FLA investigates and initial findings say Foxconn is above the norm they have a FLA smear campaign. SumofUs base their EVIDENCE on (from their website) "reporters" and "news accounts", seriously? News accounts is evidence? Their earlier petition was based on the B.S New York times article (the infamous error filled article where 'sources' one day later wrote open letters to refute).
Groups like SumofUs are publicity whores who pick on apple and ignore the rest to get pubicity (hey PCs had 90% market share for YEARS built in the same or worse factories so where's their dozens of petitions for acer , asus, samsung, dell etc ?)
finally, I have to conclude I don't know whether the workers claims are true or not or how Apple (not being their employer ) is liable. Wintek already paid so what's this about? Until someone actually does some real INVESTIGATIVE reporting (show me the medical records, show me the documents of the Wintek payment, apple's liability in its purchase agreement etc) I'll reserve judgement.
Yes but China isn't the same thing as US nowadays. They are China nowadays which is a few first world cities in a 3rd world country. The first world being funded on the backs of the 3rd world.
Yes, I do realize that China is definitely not the same thing as the US today in 2012. That is the point that I have made numerous times in these kind of threads. It is the activists who need to be educated on that fact, not an informed person such as myself.
And that's why I am perfectly ok with them making 3rd world wages, because that's how the majority of them live. A few silly people signing any petition is not going to change how the country of China operates. All countries in the world are not equally evolved, and that's just how things are.
I am certainly against economic equality for all, because that's just about the dumbest and most unrealistic idea that I have ever heard. Every country needs to get there at their own pace. I also don't have much concern for countries which are totalitarian run.
In many cases, people literally are dying while making Apple products.
Yeah right.
Actually, this claim is not as false as you may initially think.
When I purchased my own iPad I took it home, unlocked and opened the home screen, and a dead Foxconn worker fell out. My friend had a similar thing happen, but with a dolphin.
True story.
Something really needs to be done to help these poor workers that specifically applied to work at Foxconn and also have the ability to leave at any time they wish.
When you are top company in the world you wield quite a bit of power. The only company that can actually make a change, if they choose too is Apple. If they wanted to truly make a change they can. That is why Apple is singled out. Public opinion is big for Apple. If they sit back and do nothing real, they condone what is going on. If they squeeze Foxconn they could make significant changes. The ball is in Apple's court here. A few "audits" mean nothing. Wielding their financial might does. If Foxconn actually thought they cold lose Apple's business, I suspect things would change.
Something really needs to be done to help these poor workers that specifically applied to work at Foxconn and also have the ability to leave at any time they wish.
Did you see the pictures of all those people lining up outside the factories dying to get in and looking for a job?
These people clearly must be idiots! What could they possibly be thinking, trying to get a job and make some money. That is outrageous!
The activists should line up outside the hiring offices and form a human chain, preventing anybody from working or being hired! The activists should use force if necessary and beat up anybody trying to get a job, since the workers are obviously dumb people and they don't even know what's best for themselves. The activists know what's best. Everybody should listen to them.
Comments
I worked in a pit barbecue at 15 years for just over $3 an hour. The kitchen was 100F in the winter. Had a paper route before that. Worked sheet rocking, taping and floating over the summers which was an upgrade from roofing in the 100+ heat the summer before If I got a living wage for those jobs no one who earns a wage to live on could afford fajitas, new papers, roofs or walls.
I learned that I needed to learn a skill that permitted air conditioning.
I worked at the end of the "green chain" at a lumber mill in the middle of nowhere. We pulled 2X4 after 2X4 off that chain for days on end, lived 6-8 to a bunk shed, had nowhere to spend our money except at an improvised bar, were beaten by the big guy who went psycho each weekend because he worked too many overtime shifts and hadn't seen a female in 2 months.
I learned that I needed to learn a skill so that I wouldn't be treated like a complete asshole all my life. It still didn't work.
What seems really unfair to apple is that Apple has become the face of everything that is wrong with overseas labor practices. It's not fair.....
It's a Nike moment...
These deranged leftist activists are evil and stupid people. Their petition deserves to be pissed on.
What a bunch of losers and disgusting freaks. They can take their retarded and offensive political ideas and shove it where the sun don't shine
I agree, that the solution should not be solely an Apple problem, but good conditions for workers is a worthy goal.
Certainly worthy of a more intelligent response than the one you gave.
Yeah, you really make THEM sound, "evil and stupid"
Whose retarded political ideas are you supporting, Romney, Santorum, Gingrich or Paul's
Yeah, you really make THEM sound, "evil and stupid"
Whose retarded political ideas are you supporting, Romney, Santorum, Gingrich or Paul's
The retard that sounds the most like this.
Yeah, you really make THEM sound, "evil and stupid"
Whose retarded political ideas are you supporting, Romney, Santorum, Gingrich or Paul's
Yeah, I believe that they are evil and stupid. That's my educated conclusion after looking at their website.
Since you took the time to sign up to this site and make your first post, perhaps you are one of them.
As for who I will be supporting, I have not yet determined that. I'll support Bozo the clown if he's running, instead of what we currently have.
I agree, that the solution should not be solely an Apple problem, but good conditions for workers is a worthy goal.
I disagree that it's a worthy goal, as "good" is a word that can be interpreted differently according to who you ask. The activist's definition of "good" is not the same as my definition of "good".
They even mentioned how they wanted Unions in China. Well that's just great! That is not a worthy cause at all. As if there's not enough corruption and crap in China already and they want to bring even more corruption by inviting criminal Unions. I am anti-Union and I don't see any need for any such criminal enterprises. And I especially do not want a bunch of criminals in charge of the workers who assemble my Apple products.
Speaking of beef. Lets say I'm at McDonald's. I order a Big Mac. While my sandwich is being made the McDonald's employee slips and fails. They then sue me because it was my sandwich they were making when they fell. Is that pretty much what this petition is suggesting?
You eat those things?
I disagree that it's a worthy goal, as "good" is a word that can be interpreted differently according to who you ask. The activist's definition of "good" is not the same as my definition of "good".
They even mentioned how they wanted Unions in China. Well that's just great! That is not a worthy cause at all. As if there's not enough corruption and crap in China already and they want to bring even more corruption by inviting criminal Unions. I am anti-Union and I don't see any need for any such criminal enterprises. And I especially do not want a bunch of criminals in charge of the workers who assemble my Apple products.
That's pretty broad reaching about Unions. They have a great place in US history in regions where there was no competition and persons were treated close indentured servants. A union partnering with a company for the success of that company is a good thing. A union running a protection racket across the whole industry and across sovereign states is another thing entirely. Let them organize and work with Foxconn. It would be a very un-China thing to do.
My feeling is that it depends upon how involved Apple was in the setup of the production line. If they trusted Wintek to not expose workers to toxic chemicals that might have been naive but not a mistake that would warrant Apple having to pay damages. However, if Apple gave express permission or were otherwise closely involved in the decision to use n-hexane I think it becomes a different matter.
Wasn't Apostrophes a greek god??
That's pretty broad reaching about Unions.
I don't deny that Unions have done some good in the past, many decades ago, but I do not see much evidence of that nowadays.
I don't deny that Unions have done some good in the past, many decades ago, but I do not see much evidence of that nowadays.
Yes but China isn't the same thing as US nowadays. They are China nowadays which is a few first world cities in a 3rd world country. The first world being funded on the backs of the 3rd world.
For example I'm not saying these workers don't have a real greviance but even this article says the issue was settled with bonuses paid out and the chemical banned, so now what's happening?
are the workers just trying to get more money? after wintek paid out, now because of the Apple's billions it's apple's turn? From the article I can't tell if anybody checked the workers claims, i.e health records, payout agreements received etc (like did anybody do any real investigative reporting or just because it's apple bashing it's true?)
I have worked in Asia and even more so than here we have to be careful in checking things out, in many parts of Asia the $ is KING. Case in point the Proview iPad trademark case, they sold the trademark for about 50k (big Hong Kong court backs apple) but now realizing Apple's got money they want $2 billion.
"We have been pressuring Apple, and its new CEO Tim Cook, for years to compensate"
Why? shouldn't they be pressuring Wintek? Seriously I've worked in Asia for years , like cab drivers there, they probably think Apple a rich foreigner is an easy mark.
As for SumofUs, at first they described Foxconn as a hell hole with children working there, then when FLA investigates and initial findings say Foxconn is above the norm they have a FLA smear campaign. SumofUs base their EVIDENCE on (from their website) "reporters" and "news accounts", seriously? News accounts is evidence? Their earlier petition was based on the B.S New York times article (the infamous error filled article where 'sources' one day later wrote open letters to refute).
Groups like SumofUs are publicity whores who pick on apple and ignore the rest to get pubicity (hey PCs had 90% market share for YEARS built in the same or worse factories so where's their dozens of petitions for acer , asus, samsung, dell etc ?)
finally, I have to conclude I don't know whether the workers claims are true or not or how Apple (not being their employer ) is liable. Wintek already paid so what's this about? Until someone actually does some real INVESTIGATIVE reporting (show me the medical records, show me the documents of the Wintek payment, apple's liability in its purchase agreement etc) I'll reserve judgement.
Yes but China isn't the same thing as US nowadays. They are China nowadays which is a few first world cities in a 3rd world country. The first world being funded on the backs of the 3rd world.
Yes, I do realize that China is definitely not the same thing as the US today in 2012. That is the point that I have made numerous times in these kind of threads. It is the activists who need to be educated on that fact, not an informed person such as myself.
And that's why I am perfectly ok with them making 3rd world wages, because that's how the majority of them live. A few silly people signing any petition is not going to change how the country of China operates. All countries in the world are not equally evolved, and that's just how things are.
I am certainly against economic equality for all, because that's just about the dumbest and most unrealistic idea that I have ever heard. Every country needs to get there at their own pace. I also don't have much concern for countries which are totalitarian run.
In many cases, people literally are dying while making Apple products.
Yeah right.
Actually, this claim is not as false as you may initially think.
When I purchased my own iPad I took it home, unlocked and opened the home screen, and a dead Foxconn worker fell out. My friend had a similar thing happen, but with a dolphin.
True story.
Something really needs to be done to help these poor workers that specifically applied to work at Foxconn and also have the ability to leave at any time they wish.
Something really needs to be done to help these poor workers that specifically applied to work at Foxconn and also have the ability to leave at any time they wish.
Did you see the pictures of all those people lining up outside the factories dying to get in and looking for a job?
These people clearly must be idiots! What could they possibly be thinking, trying to get a job and make some money. That is outrageous!
The activists should line up outside the hiring offices and form a human chain, preventing anybody from working or being hired! The activists should use force if necessary and beat up anybody trying to get a job, since the workers are obviously dumb people and they don't even know what's best for themselves. The activists know what's best. Everybody should listen to them.
Your beef is with your employer, not with Apple. I'll sign no such petition.
Totally agree. The Nightline special made me think that conditions in China are much better than I was lead to believe by all the media reports.
Depending on the injury perhaps Apple should offer them free "bumpers". (OK, that joke likely bombed)
Only if they had been gripping the burger tightly in the wrong place.