You can still make the MBP thinner and/or lighter ? even following design cues from the MBA like they've done in the past ? while maintaining the 35-45W TDP CPU and dGPU of the MBP line.
Probably, but Apple will still differentiate their notebooks with a MacBook Air line & a MacBook Pro line.
Or folks that play games that still insist on having disk 1 in the drive?
That's probably my number 1 use for the ODD and it's annoying to fiddle with an external drive on an airplane.
Can't these games be run from the internal HDD/SSD? Even putting it in a DMG would give it a mount point, right, while using less power and being faster than an ODD?
You're inferring that I said that Apple will not redesign the MacBook Pro. I never said such a thing. In fact on the last page I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHagan4755
It's clear the optical drive is a goner in the next MacBook Pro. This probably allows Apple to move the hard drive (still a hard drive or 2.5-inch SSD, no blade SSDs like the Air yet) to the front of the machine, in same general vicinity where the optical drive is in present MacBook Pros. Along with Apple's ability to design custom, non-removeable batteries, it will allow Apple to taper the design to make it similar stylistically to the Air. I think Apple is trying to use some of the Air's popularity as a halo on its Pro aesthetic.
This is what I believe Apple intends on doing. It fits their pattern. I've been on here a long time. I have read a lot of the hyperbole & over-the-top wishful thinking that goes on here. I've learned to temper my enthusiasm from what people here wish Apple should do with what Apple actually does.
"Beyond the rumor sites, way beyond." How many were disappointed with that? Think about it...
I started a thread well over a year ago on the Mac Pro is Dead, and you know what? It still hasn't been updated. The Mac Pro hasn't seen an update since July 27, 2010.
I can think like Apple. It helps with the perspective I get from the young whipper snappers that post here. For the most part, Apple pivots — they don't jump. If you take a look at the hardware design moves that Apple has made in the last 7 years, you can see how evolutionary it is. PowerPC to Intel switch all the way to present unibody construction, the designs are evolutionary not radically overhauled. Maybe that shouldn't be. But that's how it is.
And again with the MacBook Pro I expect the same unibody MacBook Pro construction, modified noticeably from its current offering to a tapered design Ã* la MacBook Air. I wish they'd permanently remove the obnoxiously reflective glass in front of the display, but you know they love it & I can imagine they'll continue with it that look. That makes the computer heavier believe it or not. If it was negligible Apple probably would have it on the Air line. But since weight is a concern there, there's no glass on the Air. Hence the "Air" moniker.
I think Apple will move toward 16:9 displays. They've done it for the Cinema Display, both iMacs, and the 11-inch Air. It will make Airplay mirroring in Mountain Lion look a little more seamless, but they continued with the 16:10 ratio in the 13" MacBook Air, so I don't know if that's at all a consideration in Apple's eye.
Bottom line, they're going to get a major redesign, but in the end they'll still be MacBook Pros.
You can still make the MBP thinner and/or lighter ? even following design cues from the MBA like they've done in the past ? while maintaining the 35-45W TDP CPU and dGPU of the MBP line.
This is what I have been trying to explain, but Tallest Skil still does not get it. A thinner, lighter, redesigned 2012 Macbook Pro could replace the Macbook Air. Apple could call the new model, "Macbook", but technically it's the redesigned Macbook Pro that has replaced the Macbook Air.
This is what I have been trying to explain, but Tallest Skil still does not get it. A thinner, lighter, redesigned 2012 Macbook Pro could replace the Macbook Air. Apple could call the new model, "Macbook", but technically it's the redesigned Macbook Pro that has replaced the Macbook Air.
I think what's lacking in this discussion is marketing.
Remember the 4 boxes that Steve introduced to us? One side had a pro desktop & pro notebook, and the other side had a consumer desktop & consumer notebook. That was Apple's product strategy. Has this product strategy changed?
It became clear last year that Apple was making real headway with the MacBook Air in its consumer segment. So what happened to the Macbook which was geared to consumers? It went away.
Now one could argue with the seeming demise of the Mac Pro that we could see just a desktop line (iMac / Mac mini) and notebook line (MacBook).
But does this make for good marketing? That's the question. I believe Apple needs to have the two tiers based purely on how the market operates & to compete across the board. Granted they are changing the market to an extent — just look at the iPad.
At the end of the day what's feasible doesn't really matter. I don't think that the product strategy on the MacBook Air & MacBook Pro will change. From a marketing perspective, stepping up to the pro means spending more money. And Apple's raking it in right now.
[QUOTE=Tallest Skil;2055295]I'm trying to parse the difference between your options, and I'm not finding one.
I'm saying that Apple will redesign the Pro to be more Air-like. In doing so, they will remove the need for the name "Air", and since calling ALL of the laptops they sell "Pro" seems silly (particularly when half wouldn't have dedicated graphics), I figure they'll either rename the entire line to just "MacBook" with four sizes or keep the Pro name for the 15" and 17" and call the two Air sizes just "MacBook".
The 2011 13 inch Macbook Pro has a 2.8ghz i7 processor with turbo boost 2.0 going up to 3.4ghz, and it can take up to 8GB of DDR3 RAM. The only two things that it lacks for now, is dedicated graphics, and a quad core processor. The 2011 13 inch Macbook Air has a far weaker, 1.7ghz ultra low voltage cpu, integrated graphics, and non upgradable memory.
A redesigned, 13 inch Macbook Pro, with no ODD, will be able to have dedicated graphics, expandable memory, and a quad core or standard dual core processor. I can see Apple calling the redesigned 13 inch Macbook Pro, a "Macbook Pro".
I'm trying to parse the difference between your options, and I'm not finding one.
I'm saying that Apple will redesign the Pro to be more Air-like. In doing so, they will remove the need for the name "Air", and since calling ALL of the laptops they sell "Pro" seems silly (particularly when half wouldn't have dedicated graphics), I figure they'll either rename the entire line to just "MacBook" with four sizes or keep the Pro name for the 15" and 17" and call the two Air sizes just "MacBook".
But the latter seems less Apple than the former.
The 2011 13 inch Macbook Pro has a 2.8ghz i7 processor with turbo boost 2.0 going up to 3.4ghz, and it can take up to 8GB of DDR3 RAM. The only two things that it lacks for now, is dedicated graphics, and a quad core processor. The 2011 13 inch Macbook Air has a far weaker, 1.7ghz ultra low voltage cpu, integrated graphics, and non upgradable memory.
A redesigned, 13 inch Macbook Pro, with no ODD, will be able to have dedicated graphics, expandable memory, and a quad core or standard dual core processor. I can see Apple calling the redesigned 13 inch Macbook Pro, a "Macbook Pro".
Can't these games be run from the internal HDD/SSD? Even putting it in a DMG would give it a mount point, right, while using less power and being faster than an ODD?
Well...assuming I can rip it correctly I suppose. That kind of defeats the purpose of using the disk as a crude form of DRM so I'm guessing they do the usual bad sector/etc stuff. I'm not DLing a cracked version.
What's effing annoying is that the game in question is Mass Effect 2. Not some 1990s vintage retro game.
ME2 has DRM built into it AND demands that the disk be in the drive. Really? WTF BioWare?
I suppose I can just buy ME3 off Steam but if games go like Diablo 3 and demand an active internet connection all the time I'm gonna give the PC game industry the middle finger and rely 100% on iPad gaming.
As big a fan of D2 that I was, D3 is dead to me. The only damn time I have to game is generally when I ain't got internet either.
So you don't believe the MacBook Pro is getting redesigned, then.
Note that Apple doesn't really care about the "industrious computer user" as many people attempt to paint him. He doesn't exist like he used to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Ah, young grasshopper, I have taught you well?
Shame that more can't see it.
I saw it long ago. Apple tries to please a lot of people and determine what the rest will tolerate. My version might be simplified a bit much, but that is what they do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaNOmega4ever
The 2011 13 inch Macbook Pro has a 2.8ghz i7 processor with turbo boost 2.0 going up to 3.4ghz, and it can take up to 8GB of DDR3 RAM. The only two things that it lacks for now, is dedicated graphics, and a quad core processor. The 2011 13 inch Macbook Air has a far weaker, 1.7ghz ultra low voltage cpu, integrated graphics, and non upgradable memory.
A redesigned, 13 inch Macbook Pro, with no ODD, will be able to have dedicated graphics, expandable memory, and a quad core or standard dual core processor. I can see Apple calling the redesigned 13 inch Macbook Pro, a "Macbook Pro".
Specs increase over time across all computers. The Air cpu is weaker, but the gap is a bit less than the base clock would lead you to believe. Benchmarks which sometimes exagerrate real behavior place it around a 20-25% difference. I call the ram and graphics a bigger issue. If you really want cpu power, quad is the way to go most of the time. There are many many programs that will use 2-4 cores than 4+ anyway. I'm not sure what created that magic number.
This. It's taken 11 years to come out if you count the expansion.
Now as for the MacBook Pro, I think we will see flash storage by default in the next revision although I think we are a bit far away from getting as thin and light as the Air with a comparable processor. We need another year or two. I could be wrong and hope I am.
I've been on an MBA 11 for 2 years 60gb drive with full tools including eclipse. Just upgraded to 180gb to use lion. Thats way more than you need unless you are heavy on video.
Never miss Ethernet although I bought the dongle. Use the VGA dongle sometimes but we're upgrading to AirPlay. Same for hdmi, gone. No need for DVD.
I can see MBP for those that need DVD but MBA is a better package. Or go desktop and iPad with cloud. Or MBA with iPhone. These devices are just so much better than pc hardware its not funny.
Aside from Apple nixing the optical drive, next on the chopping block would be Firewire 800. I would much rather have gigabit Ethernet & Thunderbolt if compromising over space is an issue.
So you don't believe the MacBook Pro is getting redesigned, then.
Note that Apple doesn't really care about the "industrious computer user" as many people attempt to paint him. He doesn't exist like he used to.
Apple should care, what are the developers who make iOS and OSX apps going to use to create content? OSX is a great tool (a proper UNIX system) for developers, designers, artists, professionals, and while they are a much smaller market overall than regular consumers, they are the ones driving traditional computer sales. Anyhow, I'm personally not worried. I read an interview with Tim Cook the other day where he specifically said that iOS and OSX won't merge, and OSX will remain a proper OS.
As for the MBP, of course it's getting redesigned. It'll probably be more Air-like, but with the same or better specs as current models. The only wildcard being, if Intel's integrated graphics have progressed as they claim, then it could replace discrete graphics cards, and then there could be a single Macbook line.
Apple should care, what are the developers who make iOS and OSX apps going to use to create content?
Macs. I don't see where that was called into question.
Quote:
The only wildcard being, if Intel's integrated graphics have progressed as they claim, then it could replace discrete graphics cards, and then there could be a single Macbook line.
As for the MBP, of course it's getting redesigned. It'll probably be more Air-like, but with the same or better specs as current models. The only wildcard being, if Intel's integrated graphics have progressed as they claim, then it could replace discrete graphics cards, and then there could be a single Macbook line.
You should reconsider your sources of information. It's a big improvement from something that was terrible, and I have yet to see good Intel drivers on OSX.
Comments
You can still make the MBP thinner and/or lighter ? even following design cues from the MBA like they've done in the past ? while maintaining the 35-45W TDP CPU and dGPU of the MBP line.
Probably, but Apple will still differentiate their notebooks with a MacBook Air line & a MacBook Pro line.
I never said that.
Yes, you did.
You said "?MacBook Air for the thin and light crowd?", implying that the Pro would remain as not thin and not light.
You also said "MacBook Pro? ?needs a beefier? ", the implication being the computer needs to be larger to support such stuff.
What I'm not saying is there'll be a move to all ULP processors. We should still see the same line of chips in the larger MacBooks.
They won?t disrupt the whole network space. Just the eleven people who meet all of these criteria:
Or folks that play games that still insist on having disk 1 in the drive?
That's probably my number 1 use for the ODD and it's annoying to fiddle with an external drive on an airplane.
Or folks that play games that still insist on having disk 1 in the drive?
Wow, I remember that.
The last game I played that required that was Titanic: Adventure Out of Time, and that was on my LC 575.
"But the LC 575 didn't have any graphics chips? how did it run that game?"
Not well, I'll tell you. Not well at all.
Or folks that play games that still insist on having disk 1 in the drive?
That's probably my number 1 use for the ODD and it's annoying to fiddle with an external drive on an airplane.
Can't these games be run from the internal HDD/SSD? Even putting it in a DMG would give it a mount point, right, while using less power and being faster than an ODD?
Yes, you did.
You're inferring that I said that Apple will not redesign the MacBook Pro. I never said such a thing. In fact on the last page I said:
It's clear the optical drive is a goner in the next MacBook Pro. This probably allows Apple to move the hard drive (still a hard drive or 2.5-inch SSD, no blade SSDs like the Air yet) to the front of the machine, in same general vicinity where the optical drive is in present MacBook Pros. Along with Apple's ability to design custom, non-removeable batteries, it will allow Apple to taper the design to make it similar stylistically to the Air. I think Apple is trying to use some of the Air's popularity as a halo on its Pro aesthetic.
This is what I believe Apple intends on doing. It fits their pattern. I've been on here a long time. I have read a lot of the hyperbole & over-the-top wishful thinking that goes on here. I've learned to temper my enthusiasm from what people here wish Apple should do with what Apple actually does.
"Beyond the rumor sites, way beyond." How many were disappointed with that? Think about it...
I've learned to temper my enthusiasm from what people here wish Apple should do with what Apple actually does.
Ah, young grasshopper, I have taught you well?
Shame that more can't see it.
I started a thread well over a year ago on the Mac Pro is Dead, and you know what? It still hasn't been updated. The Mac Pro hasn't seen an update since July 27, 2010.
I can think like Apple. It helps with the perspective I get from the young whipper snappers that post here. For the most part, Apple pivots — they don't jump. If you take a look at the hardware design moves that Apple has made in the last 7 years, you can see how evolutionary it is. PowerPC to Intel switch all the way to present unibody construction, the designs are evolutionary not radically overhauled. Maybe that shouldn't be. But that's how it is.
And again with the MacBook Pro I expect the same unibody MacBook Pro construction, modified noticeably from its current offering to a tapered design Ã* la MacBook Air. I wish they'd permanently remove the obnoxiously reflective glass in front of the display, but you know they love it & I can imagine they'll continue with it that look. That makes the computer heavier believe it or not. If it was negligible Apple probably would have it on the Air line. But since weight is a concern there, there's no glass on the Air. Hence the "Air" moniker.
I think Apple will move toward 16:9 displays. They've done it for the Cinema Display, both iMacs, and the 11-inch Air. It will make Airplay mirroring in Mountain Lion look a little more seamless, but they continued with the 16:10 ratio in the 13" MacBook Air, so I don't know if that's at all a consideration in Apple's eye.
Bottom line, they're going to get a major redesign, but in the end they'll still be MacBook Pros.
By the way, who here is buying a 15" MacBook Air?
You can still make the MBP thinner and/or lighter ? even following design cues from the MBA like they've done in the past ? while maintaining the 35-45W TDP CPU and dGPU of the MBP line.
This is what I have been trying to explain, but Tallest Skil still does not get it. A thinner, lighter, redesigned 2012 Macbook Pro could replace the Macbook Air. Apple could call the new model, "Macbook", but technically it's the redesigned Macbook Pro that has replaced the Macbook Air.
This is what I have been trying to explain, but Tallest Skil still does not get it. A thinner, lighter, redesigned 2012 Macbook Pro could replace the Macbook Air. Apple could call the new model, "Macbook", but technically it's the redesigned Macbook Pro that has replaced the Macbook Air.
I think what's lacking in this discussion is marketing.
Remember the 4 boxes that Steve introduced to us? One side had a pro desktop & pro notebook, and the other side had a consumer desktop & consumer notebook. That was Apple's product strategy. Has this product strategy changed?
It became clear last year that Apple was making real headway with the MacBook Air in its consumer segment. So what happened to the Macbook which was geared to consumers? It went away.
Now one could argue with the seeming demise of the Mac Pro that we could see just a desktop line (iMac / Mac mini) and notebook line (MacBook).
But does this make for good marketing? That's the question. I believe Apple needs to have the two tiers based purely on how the market operates & to compete across the board. Granted they are changing the market to an extent — just look at the iPad.
At the end of the day what's feasible doesn't really matter. I don't think that the product strategy on the MacBook Air & MacBook Pro will change. From a marketing perspective, stepping up to the pro means spending more money. And Apple's raking it in right now.
I'm saying that Apple will redesign the Pro to be more Air-like. In doing so, they will remove the need for the name "Air", and since calling ALL of the laptops they sell "Pro" seems silly (particularly when half wouldn't have dedicated graphics), I figure they'll either rename the entire line to just "MacBook" with four sizes or keep the Pro name for the 15" and 17" and call the two Air sizes just "MacBook".
The 2011 13 inch Macbook Pro has a 2.8ghz i7 processor with turbo boost 2.0 going up to 3.4ghz, and it can take up to 8GB of DDR3 RAM. The only two things that it lacks for now, is dedicated graphics, and a quad core processor. The 2011 13 inch Macbook Air has a far weaker, 1.7ghz ultra low voltage cpu, integrated graphics, and non upgradable memory.
A redesigned, 13 inch Macbook Pro, with no ODD, will be able to have dedicated graphics, expandable memory, and a quad core or standard dual core processor. I can see Apple calling the redesigned 13 inch Macbook Pro, a "Macbook Pro".
I'm trying to parse the difference between your options, and I'm not finding one.
I'm saying that Apple will redesign the Pro to be more Air-like. In doing so, they will remove the need for the name "Air", and since calling ALL of the laptops they sell "Pro" seems silly (particularly when half wouldn't have dedicated graphics), I figure they'll either rename the entire line to just "MacBook" with four sizes or keep the Pro name for the 15" and 17" and call the two Air sizes just "MacBook".
But the latter seems less Apple than the former.
The 2011 13 inch Macbook Pro has a 2.8ghz i7 processor with turbo boost 2.0 going up to 3.4ghz, and it can take up to 8GB of DDR3 RAM. The only two things that it lacks for now, is dedicated graphics, and a quad core processor. The 2011 13 inch Macbook Air has a far weaker, 1.7ghz ultra low voltage cpu, integrated graphics, and non upgradable memory.
A redesigned, 13 inch Macbook Pro, with no ODD, will be able to have dedicated graphics, expandable memory, and a quad core or standard dual core processor. I can see Apple calling the redesigned 13 inch Macbook Pro, a "Macbook Pro".
Can't these games be run from the internal HDD/SSD? Even putting it in a DMG would give it a mount point, right, while using less power and being faster than an ODD?
Well...assuming I can rip it correctly I suppose. That kind of defeats the purpose of using the disk as a crude form of DRM so I'm guessing they do the usual bad sector/etc stuff. I'm not DLing a cracked version.
What's effing annoying is that the game in question is Mass Effect 2. Not some 1990s vintage retro game.
ME2 has DRM built into it AND demands that the disk be in the drive. Really? WTF BioWare?
I suppose I can just buy ME3 off Steam but if games go like Diablo 3 and demand an active internet connection all the time I'm gonna give the PC game industry the middle finger and rely 100% on iPad gaming.
As big a fan of D2 that I was, D3 is dead to me. The only damn time I have to game is generally when I ain't got internet either.
So you don't believe the MacBook Pro is getting redesigned, then.
Note that Apple doesn't really care about the "industrious computer user" as many people attempt to paint him. He doesn't exist like he used to.
Ah, young grasshopper, I have taught you well?
Shame that more can't see it.
I saw it long ago. Apple tries to please a lot of people and determine what the rest will tolerate. My version might be simplified a bit much, but that is what they do.
The 2011 13 inch Macbook Pro has a 2.8ghz i7 processor with turbo boost 2.0 going up to 3.4ghz, and it can take up to 8GB of DDR3 RAM. The only two things that it lacks for now, is dedicated graphics, and a quad core processor. The 2011 13 inch Macbook Air has a far weaker, 1.7ghz ultra low voltage cpu, integrated graphics, and non upgradable memory.
A redesigned, 13 inch Macbook Pro, with no ODD, will be able to have dedicated graphics, expandable memory, and a quad core or standard dual core processor. I can see Apple calling the redesigned 13 inch Macbook Pro, a "Macbook Pro".
Specs increase over time across all computers. The Air cpu is weaker, but the gap is a bit less than the base clock would lead you to believe. Benchmarks which sometimes exagerrate real behavior place it around a 20-25% difference. I call the ram and graphics a bigger issue. If you really want cpu power, quad is the way to go most of the time. There are many many programs that will use 2-4 cores than 4+ anyway. I'm not sure what created that magic number.
As big a fan of D2 that I was, D3 is dead to me.
This. It's taken 11 years to come out if you count the expansion.
Now as for the MacBook Pro, I think we will see flash storage by default in the next revision although I think we are a bit far away from getting as thin and light as the Air with a comparable processor. We need another year or two. I could be wrong and hope I am.
Never miss Ethernet although I bought the dongle. Use the VGA dongle sometimes but we're upgrading to AirPlay. Same for hdmi, gone. No need for DVD.
I can see MBP for those that need DVD but MBA is a better package. Or go desktop and iPad with cloud. Or MBA with iPhone. These devices are just so much better than pc hardware its not funny.
Aside from Apple nixing the optical drive, next on the chopping block would be Firewire 800. I would much rather have gigabit Ethernet & Thunderbolt if compromising over space is an issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
So you don't believe the MacBook Pro is getting redesigned, then.
Note that Apple doesn't really care about the "industrious computer user" as many people attempt to paint him. He doesn't exist like he used to.
Apple should care, what are the developers who make iOS and OSX apps going to use to create content? OSX is a great tool (a proper UNIX system) for developers, designers, artists, professionals, and while they are a much smaller market overall than regular consumers, they are the ones driving traditional computer sales. Anyhow, I'm personally not worried. I read an interview with Tim Cook the other day where he specifically said that iOS and OSX won't merge, and OSX will remain a proper OS.
As for the MBP, of course it's getting redesigned. It'll probably be more Air-like, but with the same or better specs as current models. The only wildcard being, if Intel's integrated graphics have progressed as they claim, then it could replace discrete graphics cards, and then there could be a single Macbook line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
Apple should care, what are the developers who make iOS and OSX apps going to use to create content?
Macs. I don't see where that was called into question.
Quote:
The only wildcard being, if Intel's integrated graphics have progressed as they claim, then it could replace discrete graphics cards, and then there could be a single Macbook line.
That hasn't happened, thankfully.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
As for the MBP, of course it's getting redesigned. It'll probably be more Air-like, but with the same or better specs as current models. The only wildcard being, if Intel's integrated graphics have progressed as they claim, then it could replace discrete graphics cards, and then there could be a single Macbook line.
You should reconsider your sources of information. It's a big improvement from something that was terrible, and I have yet to see good Intel drivers on OSX.