I am slightly puzzled to how easily the most basic operations seem to qualify as feature-worthy.
All these little things add up you know. Is there any one "huge" thing that makes OS X better than anything else out there, or is it a whole load of "little" things that when added together make for a vastly superior whole?
No, thank goodness. The fact that in Windows you can delete stuff as the second step in the process of OPENING a file is a great example of the differences between Windows and Mac. On the Windows side if something is technically possible and someone, sometime might conceivably want to do it, they allow it. On the Mac side, they are (almost always) more discriminating about adding unnecessary stuff. Personally, when I go to open a file I want there to be no chance that I'll delete a file while clicking around. (Select, backspace, oops).
Think what you want, this rename capability wasn't omitted until now because they didn't know how to do it or didn't realize it might come in handy sometimes; it was omitted because they judged its inclusion worse than its omission.
All in all, these changes look like good ones. Count me among the many who have been more than a little challenged by the loss of the old familiar Save and Save As... options.
Personally, when I go to open a file I want there to be no chance that I'll delete a file while clicking around. (Select, backspace, oops).
You are unnecessarily concerned. I have never accidentally deleted something as you fear could happen. The delete feature is implemented in Windows with a warning dialogue - if you select a file and press delete, or right click and select delete, you are presented with a dialogue asking if you're sure you want to move the item to the recycle bin.
You are unnecessarily concerned. I have never accidentally deleted something as you fear could happen. The delete feature is implemented in Windows with a warning dialogue - if you select a file and press delete, or right click and select delete, you are presented with a dialogue asking if you're sure you want to move the item to the recycle bin.
You don't have small children. "It's so easy even your kid can do it.. and they will".
"Honey, where are my TPS reports?"
"Oh, they've been renamed $#@!@!.534elmo by your son."
Just when some of us thought Apple was gradually moving toward hiding the file system from OS X users, they reassure us that the file system (and all of its complexity) is alive and well. I love the "pervasive renaming" feature.
Haven't quite gotten used to "Keep Both Versions" though. Some day I'll try it...
I'd sure love to be able to delete files in the open dialog box. Sometimes when I'm looking to open a file, I come across a file that I'd like to delete and I then have to get out of the open dialog box, remember it, find it, and delete it. Seems like a lot of unnecessary steps...
I see your point but I disagree with that action as it can be do more harm than good with less adpet users.
All in all, these changes look like good ones. Count me among the many who have been more than a little challenged by the loss of the old familiar Save and Save As... options.
I think Apple could alleviate a lot of these frustrations with a "Duplicate + Revert to Last Manually Saved and Close Original" command.
Excuse my surprise. It just seems like a minor and necessary ability to me. I was honestly unaware that OS X wasn't able to do it.
Was this as big a challenge for Apple as cut and paste?
You're confusing the relatively recent advent of mobile IOS with the Mac OS of OSX and before. The Mac system has never, ever had a challenge with cut and paste.
All in all, these changes look like good ones. Count me among the many who have been more than a little challenged by the loss of the old familiar Save and Save As... options.
Count me in as one who absolutely abhors the new Lion file saving. It's nothing but three steps back for me, and I've yet to find a single way that it would be to my advantage.
It is NOT better than Save and Save as for me. I can't wait to get back on my SL after being on Lion, mostly due to this.
Now there's loads of ways to rename a file, does this mean they're going to change the asinine Finder behaviour where Enter is rename and Cmd+O is open?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
We don't use Windows here.
Actually, some of us do. We use Microsoft and Apple products, and want to have meaningful discussions about the latter. Sometimes this involves comparisons between Apple products and other products, and it would be really good if that could happen without comments like yours reducing the conversation to narrow-minded tribalism.
All these little things add up you know. Is there any one "huge" thing that makes OS X better than anything else out there, or is it a whole load of "little" things that when added together make for a vastly superior whole?
Mountain Lion is basically Apple integrating more of the functions into Apple services, but also to further differentiate itself from other OS's (Yes, I know this file renaming isn't one of them), some of it needlessly IMHO, some looking toward the future of fitting in to developing technology and services. Nowadays you really can use any flavor of any system and get your work done. At the dawn of Macs you could do a bunch of file management tasks in five minutes that literally would have taken a half hour in the Windows of the time, and OSX continued to be favored by those who preferred a Finder style approach to file management. That was a legit scenario that has slowly disappeared though, but we all know how old habits die hard. I'm certainly that way. : )
Mac users have historically liked the fact that they didn't need drivers (often poorly written and needing of constant updates) for many things as this would be system level stuff. You couldn't write a Mac program without adhering strictly to the Apple toolbox, and when you did the program would work. Windows users would scoff at this being handed to them as inferior and needlessly controlling and happily dealt with the drivers and lack of uniformity of the programs and programming as not a dealbreaker. This set the tone for the current scene (controlled vs less controlled) but what pretty much remains from those days is the tone of the argument rather than the reality of what either OS gets you.
These days you can put any kind of shell or interface on pretty much anything, so both Apple and Microsoft do a bit of grabbing at straws, IMHO, to stand out. Does anyone remember those Windows ads of a year or two ago which screamed how amazing it was that you could finally drag a window and bang it up against another one and have two full sized windows? (Or whatever it was). Mac users were rolling their eyes at that one, so it's obvious neither has a lock on this kind of thing. It's two behemoths, each with their niches, both blowing smoke when they feel the need.
You are unnecessarily concerned. I have never accidentally deleted something as you fear could happen. The delete feature is implemented in Windows with a warning dialogue - if you select a file and press delete, or right click and select delete, you are presented with a dialogue asking if you're sure you want to move the item to the recycle bin.
Unless of course you turned those features off earlier.
Windows ... oh you mean that OS that MS developed from the original Mac OS it ripped off? Having said that, I remember how file naming in Windblows was very, very horrible for a very long time.
Actually it still is. It's amazing how clingy Windows is to the old ways.
For example the system will generate filenames with massive names, e.g. filenames in the Temporary Internet Files folder, but when you want to do anything with those files, like say copy a profile out of the profile directory in order to eliminate profile problems it will tell you that it can't copy/move some files because the name is incorrect.
Excuse my surprise. It just seems like a minor and necessary ability to me. I was honestly unaware that OS X wasn't able to do it.
Was this as big a challenge for Apple as cut and paste?
It was tricky for Apple to do cut and paste? If I remember correctly the Mac has had it for 27 years now and it still pretty much works the same as it always has, so I'm going out on a limb and say that THEY did right the first time. But if you're talking about the iPhone, yes it was tricky to accomplish because of multi-touch. And incase you hadn't noticed, it's taken Google up until ICS to get system-wide cut&paste that is almost as flexible and extensive as Apple's implementation.
As far as adding the ability to do file management from an "Open" or "Save" dialog; it is counterintuitive and probably the biggest reason Apple has not implemented it until now. The original HUG called for actions and dialogs to stick with single minded tasks to remove confusion. This is the exact reason Windows was so damned clunky and the Mac OS has always been regarded as being much more intuitive. The point being if I choose "Open" from the File menu, I don't want to be presented with anything other than the ability to look for the file I would like to open; it's easier for more experienced users to discern the difference between these new Open dialog and a regular Finder window. Inexperienced users will just up getting confused and side-tracked.
Don't forget Windows Mobile 7 didn't have cut & paste when it released. Funny the same press who slammed Apple when they didn't have it excused MS for the same omission even though they had a much more extensive history with mobile OS'.
No, thank goodness. The fact that in Windows you can delete stuff as the second step in the process of OPENING a file is a great example of the differences between Windows and Mac. On the Windows side if something is technically possible and someone, sometime might conceivably want to do it, they allow it. On the Mac side, they are (almost always) more discriminating about adding unnecessary stuff. Personally, when I go to open a file I want there to be no chance that I'll delete a file while clicking around. (Select, backspace, oops).
Think what you want, this rename capability wasn't omitted until now because they didn't know how to do it or didn't realize it might come in handy sometimes; it was omitted because they judged its inclusion worse than its omission.
All in all, these changes look like good ones. Count me among the many who have been more than a little challenged by the loss of the old familiar Save and Save As... options.
Yes "Save As" was simple, easy, and natural. Lion made that process much less intuitive, and complicated. Restoring an easy way to rename a file will make the purchase of Mountain Lion a no brainer.
Comments
I am slightly puzzled to how easily the most basic operations seem to qualify as feature-worthy.
All these little things add up you know. Is there any one "huge" thing that makes OS X better than anything else out there, or is it a whole load of "little" things that when added together make for a vastly superior whole?
You can't do that on a Mac?
No, thank goodness. The fact that in Windows you can delete stuff as the second step in the process of OPENING a file is a great example of the differences between Windows and Mac. On the Windows side if something is technically possible and someone, sometime might conceivably want to do it, they allow it. On the Mac side, they are (almost always) more discriminating about adding unnecessary stuff. Personally, when I go to open a file I want there to be no chance that I'll delete a file while clicking around. (Select, backspace, oops).
Think what you want, this rename capability wasn't omitted until now because they didn't know how to do it or didn't realize it might come in handy sometimes; it was omitted because they judged its inclusion worse than its omission.
All in all, these changes look like good ones. Count me among the many who have been more than a little challenged by the loss of the old familiar Save and Save As... options.
...Count me among the many who have been more than a little challenged by the loss of the old familiar Save and Save As... options.
Same thing here
Personally, when I go to open a file I want there to be no chance that I'll delete a file while clicking around. (Select, backspace, oops).
You are unnecessarily concerned. I have never accidentally deleted something as you fear could happen. The delete feature is implemented in Windows with a warning dialogue - if you select a file and press delete, or right click and select delete, you are presented with a dialogue asking if you're sure you want to move the item to the recycle bin.
You are unnecessarily concerned. I have never accidentally deleted something as you fear could happen. The delete feature is implemented in Windows with a warning dialogue - if you select a file and press delete, or right click and select delete, you are presented with a dialogue asking if you're sure you want to move the item to the recycle bin.
You don't have small children. "It's so easy even your kid can do it.. and they will".
"Honey, where are my TPS reports?"
"Oh, they've been renamed $#@!@!.534elmo by your son."
Haven't quite gotten used to "Keep Both Versions" though. Some day I'll try it...
Never thought of that... but now that I have, I need it!
I'd sure love to be able to delete files in the open dialog box. Sometimes when I'm looking to open a file, I come across a file that I'd like to delete and I then have to get out of the open dialog box, remember it, find it, and delete it. Seems like a lot of unnecessary steps...
I see your point but I disagree with that action as it can be do more harm than good with less adpet users.
HOORAY!
Word!
All in all, these changes look like good ones. Count me among the many who have been more than a little challenged by the loss of the old familiar Save and Save As... options.
I think Apple could alleviate a lot of these frustrations with a "Duplicate + Revert to Last Manually Saved and Close Original" command.
Excuse my surprise. It just seems like a minor and necessary ability to me. I was honestly unaware that OS X wasn't able to do it.
Was this as big a challenge for Apple as cut and paste?
You're confusing the relatively recent advent of mobile IOS with the Mac OS of OSX and before. The Mac system has never, ever had a challenge with cut and paste.
All in all, these changes look like good ones. Count me among the many who have been more than a little challenged by the loss of the old familiar Save and Save As... options.
Count me in as one who absolutely abhors the new Lion file saving. It's nothing but three steps back for me, and I've yet to find a single way that it would be to my advantage.
It is NOT better than Save and Save as for me. I can't wait to get back on my SL after being on Lion, mostly due to this.
We don't use Windows here.
Actually, some of us do. We use Microsoft and Apple products, and want to have meaningful discussions about the latter. Sometimes this involves comparisons between Apple products and other products, and it would be really good if that could happen without comments like yours reducing the conversation to narrow-minded tribalism.
Both OS X 10.7 and Windows 7 are very good OSes.
All these little things add up you know. Is there any one "huge" thing that makes OS X better than anything else out there, or is it a whole load of "little" things that when added together make for a vastly superior whole?
Mountain Lion is basically Apple integrating more of the functions into Apple services, but also to further differentiate itself from other OS's (Yes, I know this file renaming isn't one of them), some of it needlessly IMHO, some looking toward the future of fitting in to developing technology and services. Nowadays you really can use any flavor of any system and get your work done. At the dawn of Macs you could do a bunch of file management tasks in five minutes that literally would have taken a half hour in the Windows of the time, and OSX continued to be favored by those who preferred a Finder style approach to file management. That was a legit scenario that has slowly disappeared though, but we all know how old habits die hard. I'm certainly that way. : )
Mac users have historically liked the fact that they didn't need drivers (often poorly written and needing of constant updates) for many things as this would be system level stuff. You couldn't write a Mac program without adhering strictly to the Apple toolbox, and when you did the program would work. Windows users would scoff at this being handed to them as inferior and needlessly controlling and happily dealt with the drivers and lack of uniformity of the programs and programming as not a dealbreaker. This set the tone for the current scene (controlled vs less controlled) but what pretty much remains from those days is the tone of the argument rather than the reality of what either OS gets you.
These days you can put any kind of shell or interface on pretty much anything, so both Apple and Microsoft do a bit of grabbing at straws, IMHO, to stand out. Does anyone remember those Windows ads of a year or two ago which screamed how amazing it was that you could finally drag a window and bang it up against another one and have two full sized windows? (Or whatever it was). Mac users were rolling their eyes at that one, so it's obvious neither has a lock on this kind of thing. It's two behemoths, each with their niches, both blowing smoke when they feel the need.
You are unnecessarily concerned. I have never accidentally deleted something as you fear could happen. The delete feature is implemented in Windows with a warning dialogue - if you select a file and press delete, or right click and select delete, you are presented with a dialogue asking if you're sure you want to move the item to the recycle bin.
Unless of course you turned those features off earlier.
Windows ... oh you mean that OS that MS developed from the original Mac OS it ripped off?
Actually it still is. It's amazing how clingy Windows is to the old ways.
For example the system will generate filenames with massive names, e.g. filenames in the Temporary Internet Files folder, but when you want to do anything with those files, like say copy a profile out of the profile directory in order to eliminate profile problems it will tell you that it can't copy/move some files because the name is incorrect.
I have yet to see something like this in OS X.
Excuse my surprise. It just seems like a minor and necessary ability to me. I was honestly unaware that OS X wasn't able to do it.
Was this as big a challenge for Apple as cut and paste?
It was tricky for Apple to do cut and paste? If I remember correctly the Mac has had it for 27 years now and it still pretty much works the same as it always has, so I'm going out on a limb and say that THEY did right the first time. But if you're talking about the iPhone, yes it was tricky to accomplish because of multi-touch. And incase you hadn't noticed, it's taken Google up until ICS to get system-wide cut&paste that is almost as flexible and extensive as Apple's implementation.
As far as adding the ability to do file management from an "Open" or "Save" dialog; it is counterintuitive and probably the biggest reason Apple has not implemented it until now. The original HUG called for actions and dialogs to stick with single minded tasks to remove confusion. This is the exact reason Windows was so damned clunky and the Mac OS has always been regarded as being much more intuitive. The point being if I choose "Open" from the File menu, I don't want to be presented with anything other than the ability to look for the file I would like to open; it's easier for more experienced users to discern the difference between these new Open dialog and a regular Finder window. Inexperienced users will just up getting confused and side-tracked.
Mountain Lion can't be worse than OS X 10.7 Vista.
huh?.
No, thank goodness. The fact that in Windows you can delete stuff as the second step in the process of OPENING a file is a great example of the differences between Windows and Mac. On the Windows side if something is technically possible and someone, sometime might conceivably want to do it, they allow it. On the Mac side, they are (almost always) more discriminating about adding unnecessary stuff. Personally, when I go to open a file I want there to be no chance that I'll delete a file while clicking around. (Select, backspace, oops).
Think what you want, this rename capability wasn't omitted until now because they didn't know how to do it or didn't realize it might come in handy sometimes; it was omitted because they judged its inclusion worse than its omission.
All in all, these changes look like good ones. Count me among the many who have been more than a little challenged by the loss of the old familiar Save and Save As... options.
Yes "Save As" was simple, easy, and natural. Lion made that process much less intuitive, and complicated. Restoring an easy way to rename a file will make the purchase of Mountain Lion a no brainer.