Apple's thinner 13- & 15-inch MacBook Pros expected in April 'at the soonest'

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Comments

  • ttollertonttollerton Posts: 100member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    Thinner 13" MacBook Pros? Air?



    I believe they should rebrand the whole lineup with one name, and drop the 17" version entirely.



    The best I could come up with with 7 seconds to think about it is:



    AirBook



    11, 13, 15



    The AirBook name could be a VERY distinct possibility. Given that Apple has dropped "Mac" from the name of its operating system, they may being moving away from the "Mac" moniker for its notebooks and desktops. 'Apple AirBook' has a certain ring to it, as well....



    "OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion runs on the new Apple Airbook."
  • wizard69wizard69 Posts: 11,516member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    So who says there needs to be that differentiation?



    Because AIR defines a thin, light laptop. You can't put a bunch of goodies in a laptop, fatten it up, and then call it an AIR. It isn't differentiation as much as it is physics. As long as people want additional functionality they will need a chassis to hold that functionality.



    Thus if people want the performance of 45 watt processors, fast GPUs and the storage of magnetic disk, all of that stuff has to go somewhere. What many really don't seem to grasp is that he AIRs suck performance wise. Once you become CPU bound you are lucky to get half the performance of a MBP.

    Quote:





    And why would that change in my setup?



    Because AIRs are by definition very thin computers. You can't realistically fatten up a computer to meet the needs of more aggressive users and still call he machine an AIR or even say it is in the same family.



    Look I have no doubt that Apple can thin the MBP some more. What I'm saying is they can't trim them so much that they pull all of the features that makes the Pro laptops what they are. What are they - high performance machines.

    Quote:





    Again, where in the world are you getting this from me?



    You wrote what you did. If you can't see that that would be a disaster for Apple then why aren't on the same wave length.

    Quote:





    Again, who says this would change? The 11" and 13" would keep the same ULV chips they have now. The 15" and 17" would keep chips of the same power draw as they have now. They'd also have dedicated graphics and 2.5" hard drives. With the cases being designed the same, there's just no sense in calling the line two different things.



    That is my whole point, how do you stuff these high wattage components into an AIR like chassis? A 45 watt processor still requires the same amount of cooling as does one in today's machines.

    Quote:





    So tell that to Apple, because that's what they're doing, it seems.



    They haven't yet. There is no possibility of a disk drive in any of the AIRs. There is no room for a high performance processor nor a GPU.



    I don't know what they are doing but the suggestions in this thread would effectively ruin the laptop line up for anybody with high expectations performance wise. It would in effect make the product line like the desktop line where only a few niche users are well served. Apples great success with the laptops comes from being able to sell to a wide array of users. Almost everyone could find a laptop to fit their needs.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by azentropy View Post


    Again people ragging on the MBP 13". I just don't get it. Many people want a full featured laptop in a smaller form factor.



    The 13" MBP has over the 13" Air:



    - Much faster processor options

    - Much larger RAM capacity - Up to 16gb RAM (Air is 4gb max).

    - Much larger Storage capacity - to 1tb of storage or even more with optibay. (256gb max on Air)

    - Firewire

    - Security Slot

    - Optical Drive (or additional bay for another drive if preferred).

    - GB Ethernet

    - Separate audio in/out

    - Higher quality although lower resolution screen



    Bottom line - it is nice to have options. Not sure why anyone would want fewer options.



    Making the MBP casing thinner and tapering it (wouldn't be the first time they followed the MBA's design cues) you can still have:
    - Much faster processor options

    - Much larger RAM capacity - Up to 16gb RAM (Air is 4gb max).

    - Much larger Storage capacity

    - Firewire

    - Security Slot

    - GB Ethernet

    - Separate audio in/out

    - Higher quality AND higher resolution screen
    PS: The 13" MBP doesn't have a seperate audio in/out. That starts on the 15" MBP.
  • anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 16,832member
    The 15-inchers will be a monster hit. They'll have trouble keeping it in the shelves.



    I hope they all come with a reasonably priced 500GB option. I'd be fine with the current processor speeds (if there's a trade-off with battery life), since I find my MBA at 1.8GHz to be blazingly fast compared to my 2.4 GHz Mini, and 2.5 GHz 15-inch MBP.
  • wizard69wizard69 Posts: 11,516member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cxc273 View Post


    I don't know how Apple reconciles the Pro line's larger storage capacity if the company trends everything to the Air's profile.



    Especially when a users storage needs are only going up. It is a huge problem which the AIR fans refuse to acknowledge. Even if Apple doubled capacity in the AIRs it still wouldn't be enough.

    Quote:

    I doubt that Apple would leave a conventional hard drive in. With the price of SSDs right now, is it feasible for the new Macbooks to top off at 512 GB, or is that still too crazy expensive?



    I would love a 13" laptop with the form factor of the MBA but with lots of storage.



    So would , well maybe a 15" variant. Contrary to the opinion of some, I really like the concept of the AIRs but I can't justify one today and most likely not the next rev. SSD's just don't cut it for capacity.
  • txcherokeetxcherokee Posts: 10member
    This story combined with the Feb 2011 line being sold at close out at MacMall until April 27th may offer a clue as to the introduction date of the new models.



    ....Or not.
  • wizard69wizard69 Posts: 11,516member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bobringer View Post


    Yeah... I mean... just look at how the Mac market share has been destroyed because of this. Sigh...



    Take away the laptops and things would look pretty bleak in Mac land. I really doubt that they sell more than 50,000 PROs a quarter, Mini sales are down also. The iMac is barely holding on. So yeah one could say Apple has shoot itself in the foot with the Mac desktop line up.

    Quote:

    The Mac Pro is gone. Eliminated by the pure power available in iMacs now (I know... I've got a Quad i7 iMac with 16GB.) Eliminated by the simplicity of the iMac. Eliminated by the infinite expandability of Thunderbolt.



    The market disagrees with you... so do I.



    The market does disagree with me because desktop sales are relatively flat compared to the growth in Laptops.
  • paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,082member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Uh, what? Drop the 17"? Drop the 13.



    One name: MacBook.

    Four sizes: 11", 13", 15", 17"



    MacAir 11, 13, 15

    MBP 17



    Lets face it, the only one of the Apple laptops that warrants the Pro name is the 17". It is a big and heavy machine and you don't buy that one just for surfing the net and writing your college papers.



    Generally speaking the 'Pro' moniker is a little long in the tooth, but as a distinction is needed between the super thin and light laptops and the big'un, 'Pro' works.
  • wizard69wizard69 Posts: 11,516member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Making the MBP casing thinner and tapering it (wouldn't be the first time they followed the MBA's design cues) you can still have:
    - Much faster processor options

    - Much larger RAM capacity - Up to 16gb RAM (Air is 4gb max).

    - Much larger Storage capacity

    - Firewire

    - Security Slot

    - GB Ethernet

    - Separate audio in/out

    - Higher quality AND higher resolution screen
    PS: The 13" MBP doesn't have a seperate audio in/out. That starts on the 15" MBP.



    Design cues are one thing but the above is impossible if the machine is actuality an AIR. That is a machine that makes design trade offs for thinnest. The important thing to realize here is that I'm not against a 15" AIR as I think it would sell like hot cakes. However such a machine is not a Mac Book Pro.
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Take away the laptops and things would look pretty bleak in Mac land. I really doubt that they sell more than 50,000 PROs a quarter, Mini sales are down also. The iMac is barely holding on. So yeah one could say Apple has shoot itself in the foot with the Mac desktop line up.



    It always amazes how ready you apparently are to show that you don't know what you're talking about.



    Let's look at the most recent results:

    http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q1fy12datasum.pdf

    Apple desktop sales are up 21% in units and 12% in revenue year over year. Or if you want to look at sequential numbers, they're up 16% in units and 15% in revenues.



    Previous quarter, Oppenheimer specifically cited iMac performance as being one of the drivers.



    Meanwhile, the rest of the PC market was either flat or actually declined in 2011 - depending on which data you use.



    So that's your definition of 'pretty bleak'? I wonder how you define the sales of HP, Lenovo, Dell, et al - which were flat or declining.
  • suddenly newtonsuddenly newton Posts: 13,052member
    Quote:

    But it's possible that Apple could still launch new notebooks powered by Ivy Bridge as early as April, if Intel were to give the Mac maker early access to its first run of processors. In the past, Apple has been given early availability of Intel's latest technology before other PC makers.



    That's what you use Apple's cash hoarde for. You don't piss it away on hookers and booze.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Design cues are one thing but the above is impossible if the machine is actuality an AIR. That is a machine that makes design trade offs for thinnest. The important thing to realize here is that I'm not against a 15" AIR as I think it would sell like hot cakes. However such a machine is not a Mac Book Pro.



    I thought I was clear that I was describing a MBPro, not a MBAir... or am I missing something.
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon Posts: 483member
    April? Didn't Intel just state that the new Ivy Bridge chips would be delayed until at least June? Why would you bring out a new MacBook this close to such a significant change in chipsets? I'm not buying into this speculation.
  • prof. peabodyprof. peabody Posts: 2,860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ttollerton View Post


    The AirBook name could be a VERY distinct possibility. Given that Apple has dropped "Mac" from the name of its operating system, they may being moving away from the "Mac" moniker for its notebooks and desktops. 'Apple AirBook' has a certain ring to it, as well....



    "OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion runs on the new Apple Airbook."



    I think we might be in for some renaming and re-adjusting of product lines also, but I don't understand why most people think they will keep "Air" in the name.



    The whole point of "MacBook Air" is that it's thin and light and notably drops all the mechanical junk like optical drives and platter-based drives in favour of solid state components. If the MacBook Pro line is going to get those same improvements now, then I don't see the point of using the "Air" as a differentiator.



    "Airbook" in particular is kind of an awkward, low-class name in that it's the moniker that lazy people reach for when they can't remember how to say "MacBook Air." If Apple goes with that name, it would be similar to them deciding that iPod touch's are really "iTouch's" after all, and I just don't see it.



    The more likely naming convention might be changing the Air's back to "MacBook" and keeping the Pros as "MacBook Pro's".



    The fact that they explicitly dropped "Mac" from the OS-X naming convention is the only thing that argues against this. It would be strange indeed for Apple to divest itself of all references to "Mac" in all their product lines however.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ttollerton View Post


    Given that Apple has dropped "Mac" from the name of its operating system, they may being moving away from the "Mac" moniker for its notebooks and desktops.



    They renamed Apple Computer, Inc. to Apple, Inc, and people thought Apple would stop selling computers.



    They renamed iPhone OS to iOS and yet no one thought they would stop selling iPhones.



    In both of these cases the name was changed not to drop a product but to broaden their reach. To me that means, if anything, that they will keep the Mac line and possibly add another "PC' product to the line.



    To wit, Apple's growth needs to continue and outside of pulling customers into higher tier products or expanding into other countries to expand your unit sales you have two other primary options in the 'PC' market.



    You can either grow into non-consumer markets, which means the Enterprise, a problem that Mac will always have with their higher-end 'PCs' and forcing an OS X customer to always use Apple HW. Or you can grow your brand into a lower base. This has the benefit of being larger than the top tiers but also has the disadvantage of being less profitable per unit (even if your margins remain the same) and potentially devaluing the brand. That last point may be why Apple dropped Mac from Mac OS X as they might want to grow their 'PC' presence in cheaper markets without hurting their Mac moniker.



    Or... it could be simpler than that; they might have felt it was simply superfluous to call both the HW and OS Mac.
  • foljsfoljs Posts: 224member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by azentropy View Post


    Again people ragging on the MBP 13". I just don't get it. Many people want a full featured laptop in a smaller form factor.



    The 13" MBP has over the 13" Air:



    - Much faster processor options



    This will change. And at this point, it's not the determining factor anyway. Latest Quad Cores i* are plenty fast, and are only gonna get faster.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by azentropy View Post


    - Much larger RAM capacity - Up to 16gb RAM (Air is 4gb max).

    - Much larger Storage capacity - to 1tb of storage or even more with optibay. (256gb max on Air)



    Those affect a tiny niche of users. Apple does their math before they change their lines.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by azentropy View Post


    - Firewire



    Thunderbolt is meant to replace this. Thunderbolt devices, for new stuff, and thunderbolt bays for older devices.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by azentropy View Post


    - Optical Drive (or additional bay for another drive if preferred).



    Not needed anymore by the majority, those who need it can use an external one, or one from their desktop mac if they have.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by azentropy View Post


    - Security Slot

    - GB Ethernet

    - Separate audio in/out



    Same here.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by azentropy View Post


    - Higher quality although lower resolution screen



    This will also change, especially if, as the rumor has it, Apple is making a "retina" screen for the laptops.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by azentropy View Post


    Bottom line - it is nice to have options. Not sure why anyone would want fewer options.



    For Apple: more streamlined product line, less different parts, more savings and QA.

    For consumers: not getting boggled down with a multitude of options they most likely don't need.



    It's only a problem for the 1 user in 10/20/100 that *has to have* a feature. A lot of those people are just complaining because "it's always have been done this way", though, like the people arguing against the removal of the floppy drive.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post


    April? Didn't Intel just state that the new Ivy Bridge chips would be delayed until at least June? Why would you bring out a new MacBook this close to such a significant change in chipsets? I'm not buying into this speculation.



    That was clarified a day or later that only the dual-core chips would be delayed. On top of that, if anyone can get chips in quantity before the official release its Apple since putting them in Macs is free marketing.
  • foljsfoljs Posts: 224member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    I think we might be in for some renaming and re-adjusting of product lines also, but I don't understand why most people think they will keep "Air" in the name.



    The whole point of "MacBook Air" is that it's thin and light and notably drops all the mechanical junk like optical drives and platter-based drives in favour of solid state components. If the MacBook Pro line is going to get those same improvements now, then I don't see the point of using the "Air" as a differentiator.



    The point is obvious, how came you don't see it?



    For one, "Air" already means and evokes "lighter, no mechanical junk, no dvd, thinner".



    So, if the make the MBP line have those qualities, it only makes sense to call them Air. So, the people know what this change is all about.



    Second, "Air" is a highly successful brand in itself, the most selling Apple laptop. Why keep the "Pro" name, when they have a newer one that has huge following?



    Air will be used as a differentiator with the old Pro lines. That was MBP 15 Pro, MBP 17 Pro, not we have MBA 15, and MBA 17.
  • foljsfoljs Posts: 224member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post


    April? Didn't Intel just state that the new Ivy Bridge chips would be delayed until at least June? Why would you bring out a new MacBook this close to such a significant change in chipsets?



    To get a head-start with the competition, DUH, isn't it obvious?



    Especially if your gigantic sales have you in a special status with Intel, and you have done exactly the same thing in the past.
  • prof. peabodyprof. peabody Posts: 2,860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by foljs View Post


    The point is obvious, how came you don't see it?



    For one, "Air" already means and evokes "lighter, no mechanical junk, no dvd, thinner".



    So, if the make the MBP line have those qualities, it only makes sense to call them Air. So, the people know what this change is all about ...



    By this reasoning they would use "MacBook Air" & "MacBook Air Pro," unless they actually merge the lines into one.



    I'm not convinced. If they use the "Air" moniker on *all* their laptops it becomes redundant. It would be like putting "laptop" after each name even though they are all laptops. Anything could happen though and it's all speculation at this point.
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