Educate me by giving me some real examples that back up your POV.
How many devices has your iPhone replaced? MP3 player? GPS? Do you have any maps in your car? Calculator? Portable gaming device?
We no longer buy music at a store. How many record stores closed down and how many people did they employ? Kodak is going out of business, how many employees there? That list is long and only going to get longer.
Doesn't mean one has to be hypocritical. Don't flaunt a number of jobs created when in fact your technology had effectively killed so many more. Yes I know its a dog eat dog world.
The united states of apple will create even more jobs, as long as the bulk of them squarely reside in China, and the 30/70 cut is there for apple.
I can't believe that there are so many here on AI that are caught up in things staying as they are and so opposed to progress. I guess they feel we would be better off without innovative products and companies like Apple.
Apple I love yah, but counting the UPS/FedEx person as an indirect job created by Apple is a stretch to say the least. That person would have a delivery job regardless of that iPad delivery. They just might have 2-5 (or some other small #) fewer deliveries per week. If that's their argument then I guess that person who sells you that iPad in a VZ, AT&T or Best Buy store should be counted, too? And no they should not be counted.
How many devices has your iPhone replaced? MP3 player? GPS? Do you have any maps in your car? Calculator? Portable gaming device?
We no longer buy music at a store. How many record stores closed down and how many people did they employ? Kodak is going out of business, how many employees there? That list is long and only going to get longer.
Bookstores, planned, newspapers bullied... Mags too, as well as retailers of all these, delivery people, "and the people that build the tracks for delivery" as apple likes to claim in their pr which is always short (and not just in apple's case only) for propaganda.
I can't believe that there are so many here on AI that are caught up in things staying as they are and so opposed to progress. I guess they feel we would be better off without innovative products and companies like Apple.
I never said I was opposed to progress, I'm opposed to the attempt at trying to fool me and the general public by a BS number of jobs created when in fact you've killed way more.
What free market? What competition? Whenever there's a worthy competitor it gets bought. We used to have Exxon and Mobil competing and what do we have now? ExxonMobil and gas prices through the roof. The problem with capitalism is that the vast majority of us aren't capitalists we're consumers. ATT was broken up because it was a monopoly and its slowly gone back to where it was.
Monopolies are created through protectionism in concert with the government via the magic of regulations and restrictions on competition. A free market will always deliver an optimal solution because competition squeezes out inefficiency.
AT&T was restricted from buying T-mobile. It should have been allowed. As AT&T becomes less and less responsive to consumers, it opens the door to new competitors, as long as they are not restricted from fair competition with AT&T via graft and corruption at a political level.
I can't believe that there are so many here on AI that are caught up in things staying as they are and so opposed to progress. I guess they feel we would be better off without innovative products and companies like Apple.
People do not dislike innovation, they dislike hypocrisy. Jobs told the president those jobs aren't coming back, reportedly, at least you have to admire his honesty and unapologetic attitude, but the suck ups to Cook apparently decided that it would be wise for them to come up with some apologist hupocritical bs that backfired on them. Too bad that corporate responsibility means paying these lackies to embarrass you with their rubbish, apple would have been better off actually paying some of their more than enormous cash reserves to do some actual good in projects people would respect them for. But with this shit they ll soon manage to make even the arch hypocrites of schmidt's google look comparatively benign.
First major strategic desicion by Tim Cook for apple's post Jobsian profile has been a major pr disaster IMHO, takes a lot to fill the mans shoes.
Apple has a job to do - to sell as many systems and make as much money as they can. The latest nonsense about working conditions in China and exporting jobs to China could have an impact on their sales.
Presenting facts and independent audits hasn't helped. So the only option left is to fight FUD with more FUD - which is what Apple's doing here. If it convinces some of the complainers to stop complaining, it's worth every penny - and certainly not 'completely unnecessary' as you allege.
You may be right, but in my experience answering critics with sinister political motives solves nothing because the "problem" is an illusion created by the critic. Responding to them plays right into their trap.
I can't believe that there are so many here on AI that are caught up in things staying as they are and so opposed to progress. I guess they feel we would be better off without innovative products and companies like Apple.
I'm sure you wouldn't feel so pro technology if it was your job or business that was affected.
Monopolies are created through protectionism in concert with the government via the magic of regulations and restrictions on competition. A free market will always deliver an optimal solution because competition squeezes out inefficiency.
AT&T was restricted from buying T-mobile. It should have been allowed. As AT&T becomes less and less responsive to consumers, it opens the door to new competitors, as long as they are not restricted from fair competition with AT&T via graft and corruption at a political level.
I just love how the free housing market turned out without regulations.
I never said I was opposed to progress, I'm opposed to the attempt at trying to fool me and the general public by a BS number of jobs created when in fact you've killed way more.
Please show me how and why Apple's job creation claim is BS.
I'm sure you wouldn't feel so pro technology if it was your job or business that was affected.
Jobs are constantly changing with the times, whether you are an astronaut or a farmer. Both are critical occupations that change over time. Either the jobs and people change over time or the jobs will done better by someone else who has a better method or increased efficiency. I hate to break it to you but that has always been true and always will be.
Monopolies are created through protectionism in concert with the government via the magic of regulations and restrictions on competition. A free market will always deliver an optimal solution because competition squeezes out inefficiency.
I believed in the free market years ago. It doesn't exist in the USA. Why, because bribery and influence pedaling are rampant in every part of the US government and state governments. Corporations give campaign contributions for favors. Those favors come back as regulations or taxes that prevent competitors from entering markets to compete with existing companies. They also include special tax breaks that aren't available to other companies.
I honestly don't know when the USA last had a free market or if it ever did.
You create a "job" when someone is earning a living off of it, not when someone pays you to sustain your store so they can play around with development and see what happens. If the wanted to be honest about this, and not spin numbers, they should have counted devs that earn at least the minimum wage per month from their app profits. That's how they could have claimed they created jobs, although someone could say they created shit cause the devs already have a job that of developing, be it for apples platform or for someone else's, if they happen to pay apple or whoever a premium so they can host their creations on their store, apple isn't giving them a job, it's giving them an opportunity to sell their wares. Much like a hardware or a clothes store owner can't claim they created a job by virtue of allowing tools or clothes manufacturers to sell in their store.
In turn devs are helping apple sell boatloads more iOS devices based on their ingenuity with no guarantee of their profit whatsoever. Apple is sustaining their store and dev tools on subscription of them and also has a de facto 30% profit. And then the market is free from apple to drive sale prices at any point, even to the detriment of many devs in a race to the bottom. But apple is not risking anything, their costs and profits are guaranteed as well as the added value of saling more devices on the strength of the apps others create. The app store was a great idea, apple's management has been very commendable so far (although some could claim that protectionism and sponsoring of devs would be warranted seeing as so many of them give so much back to apple) but apple isn't really risking anything while devs are in a ferocious race against each other and risking everything. And I hate the so far we have paid so and so to devs. No you haven't paid shit, your customers and the devs customers paid them, and you got a cut.
All that hardly fits my description of 200,000 jobs offered. If they want to offer them jobs they should hire them at apple, that's how people create and offer jobs.
I believed in the free market years ago. It doesn't exist in the USA. Why, because bribery and influence pedaling are rampant in every part of the US government and state governments. Corporations give campaign contributions for favors. Those favors come back as regulations or taxes that prevent competitors from entering markets to compete with existing companies. They also include special tax breaks that aren't available to other companies.
I honestly don't know when the USA last had a free market or if it ever did.
It would say it never did, at least we went from actually killing the competition to just economically killing them lives intact.
Manufacturing jobs are very different from Genius Bar jobs. Aren't 99% of the apps in the store free?
The starting pay for a UPS driver is $73,000+ after working for the company for several years in other parts of the company. Apple shipments are probably a drop in the bucket of what those people deliver.
This claim by Apple might be accurate in one aspect but it is essentially a smokescreen of BS for lack of manufacturing jobs in the USA.
It a shame that people in tech don't think of the little guy/gal. Apple has a lot of retail stores full of glass. Who do you think keeps them clean? And clean they are. Plenty of Janitors, Window Cleaners, Maintenance Men, and the list is larger than you would imagine.
Apple's showcased figures are just the tip of the jobs iceberg.
Comments
Educate me by giving me some real examples that back up your POV.
How many devices has your iPhone replaced? MP3 player? GPS? Do you have any maps in your car? Calculator? Portable gaming device?
We no longer buy music at a store. How many record stores closed down and how many people did they employ? Kodak is going out of business, how many employees there? That list is long and only going to get longer.
Doesn't mean one has to be hypocritical. Don't flaunt a number of jobs created when in fact your technology had effectively killed so many more. Yes I know its a dog eat dog world.
The united states of apple will create even more jobs, as long as the bulk of them squarely reside in China, and the 30/70 cut is there for apple.
Apple I love yah, but counting the UPS/FedEx person as an indirect job created by Apple is a stretch to say the least. That person would have a delivery job regardless of that iPad delivery. They just might have 2-5 (or some other small #) fewer deliveries per week. If that's their argument then I guess that person who sells you that iPad in a VZ, AT&T or Best Buy store should be counted, too? And no they should not be counted.
Are you really that naive?
How many devices has your iPhone replaced? MP3 player? GPS? Do you have any maps in your car? Calculator? Portable gaming device?
We no longer buy music at a store. How many record stores closed down and how many people did they employ? Kodak is going out of business, how many employees there? That list is long and only going to get longer.
Bookstores, planned, newspapers bullied... Mags too, as well as retailers of all these, delivery people, "and the people that build the tracks for delivery" as apple likes to claim in their pr which is always short (and not just in apple's case only) for propaganda.
I can't believe that there are so many here on AI that are caught up in things staying as they are and so opposed to progress. I guess they feel we would be better off without innovative products and companies like Apple.
I never said I was opposed to progress, I'm opposed to the attempt at trying to fool me and the general public by a BS number of jobs created when in fact you've killed way more.
What free market? What competition? Whenever there's a worthy competitor it gets bought. We used to have Exxon and Mobil competing and what do we have now? ExxonMobil and gas prices through the roof. The problem with capitalism is that the vast majority of us aren't capitalists we're consumers. ATT was broken up because it was a monopoly and its slowly gone back to where it was.
Monopolies are created through protectionism in concert with the government via the magic of regulations and restrictions on competition. A free market will always deliver an optimal solution because competition squeezes out inefficiency.
AT&T was restricted from buying T-mobile. It should have been allowed. As AT&T becomes less and less responsive to consumers, it opens the door to new competitors, as long as they are not restricted from fair competition with AT&T via graft and corruption at a political level.
I can't believe that there are so many here on AI that are caught up in things staying as they are and so opposed to progress. I guess they feel we would be better off without innovative products and companies like Apple.
People do not dislike innovation, they dislike hypocrisy. Jobs told the president those jobs aren't coming back, reportedly, at least you have to admire his honesty and unapologetic attitude, but the suck ups to Cook apparently decided that it would be wise for them to come up with some apologist hupocritical bs that backfired on them. Too bad that corporate responsibility means paying these lackies to embarrass you with their rubbish, apple would have been better off actually paying some of their more than enormous cash reserves to do some actual good in projects people would respect them for. But with this shit they ll soon manage to make even the arch hypocrites of schmidt's google look comparatively benign.
First major strategic desicion by Tim Cook for apple's post Jobsian profile has been a major pr disaster IMHO, takes a lot to fill the mans shoes.
Apple has a job to do - to sell as many systems and make as much money as they can. The latest nonsense about working conditions in China and exporting jobs to China could have an impact on their sales.
Presenting facts and independent audits hasn't helped. So the only option left is to fight FUD with more FUD - which is what Apple's doing here. If it convinces some of the complainers to stop complaining, it's worth every penny - and certainly not 'completely unnecessary' as you allege.
You may be right, but in my experience answering critics with sinister political motives solves nothing because the "problem" is an illusion created by the critic. Responding to them plays right into their trap.
I can't believe that there are so many here on AI that are caught up in things staying as they are and so opposed to progress. I guess they feel we would be better off without innovative products and companies like Apple.
I'm sure you wouldn't feel so pro technology if it was your job or business that was affected.
Monopolies are created through protectionism in concert with the government via the magic of regulations and restrictions on competition. A free market will always deliver an optimal solution because competition squeezes out inefficiency.
AT&T was restricted from buying T-mobile. It should have been allowed. As AT&T becomes less and less responsive to consumers, it opens the door to new competitors, as long as they are not restricted from fair competition with AT&T via graft and corruption at a political level.
I just love how the free housing market turned out without regulations.
I never said I was opposed to progress, I'm opposed to the attempt at trying to fool me and the general public by a BS number of jobs created when in fact you've killed way more.
Please show me how and why Apple's job creation claim is BS.
Please show me how and why Apple's job creation claim is BS.
Multiquote this whole thread is that what you are asking of him?
Please show me how and why Apple's job creation claim is BS.
I think its BS, who the hell are you that I should show you how I came to that conclusion?
I'm sure you wouldn't feel so pro technology if it was your job or business that was affected.
Jobs are constantly changing with the times, whether you are an astronaut or a farmer. Both are critical occupations that change over time. Either the jobs and people change over time or the jobs will done better by someone else who has a better method or increased efficiency. I hate to break it to you but that has always been true and always will be.
Monopolies are created through protectionism in concert with the government via the magic of regulations and restrictions on competition. A free market will always deliver an optimal solution because competition squeezes out inefficiency.
I believed in the free market years ago. It doesn't exist in the USA. Why, because bribery and influence pedaling are rampant in every part of the US government and state governments. Corporations give campaign contributions for favors. Those favors come back as regulations or taxes that prevent competitors from entering markets to compete with existing companies. They also include special tax breaks that aren't available to other companies.
I honestly don't know when the USA last had a free market or if it ever did.
250,000 people are paying apple to to be their developers. But how many are making a profit?
They were counting jobs created.
They were counting jobs created.
You create a "job" when someone is earning a living off of it, not when someone pays you to sustain your store so they can play around with development and see what happens. If the wanted to be honest about this, and not spin numbers, they should have counted devs that earn at least the minimum wage per month from their app profits. That's how they could have claimed they created jobs, although someone could say they created shit cause the devs already have a job that of developing, be it for apples platform or for someone else's, if they happen to pay apple or whoever a premium so they can host their creations on their store, apple isn't giving them a job, it's giving them an opportunity to sell their wares. Much like a hardware or a clothes store owner can't claim they created a job by virtue of allowing tools or clothes manufacturers to sell in their store.
In turn devs are helping apple sell boatloads more iOS devices based on their ingenuity with no guarantee of their profit whatsoever. Apple is sustaining their store and dev tools on subscription of them and also has a de facto 30% profit. And then the market is free from apple to drive sale prices at any point, even to the detriment of many devs in a race to the bottom. But apple is not risking anything, their costs and profits are guaranteed as well as the added value of saling more devices on the strength of the apps others create. The app store was a great idea, apple's management has been very commendable so far (although some could claim that protectionism and sponsoring of devs would be warranted seeing as so many of them give so much back to apple) but apple isn't really risking anything while devs are in a ferocious race against each other and risking everything. And I hate the so far we have paid so and so to devs. No you haven't paid shit, your customers and the devs customers paid them, and you got a cut.
All that hardly fits my description of 200,000 jobs offered. If they want to offer them jobs they should hire them at apple, that's how people create and offer jobs.
I believed in the free market years ago. It doesn't exist in the USA. Why, because bribery and influence pedaling are rampant in every part of the US government and state governments. Corporations give campaign contributions for favors. Those favors come back as regulations or taxes that prevent competitors from entering markets to compete with existing companies. They also include special tax breaks that aren't available to other companies.
I honestly don't know when the USA last had a free market or if it ever did.
It would say it never did, at least we went from actually killing the competition to just economically killing them lives intact.
Manufacturing jobs are very different from Genius Bar jobs. Aren't 99% of the apps in the store free?
The starting pay for a UPS driver is $73,000+ after working for the company for several years in other parts of the company. Apple shipments are probably a drop in the bucket of what those people deliver.
This claim by Apple might be accurate in one aspect but it is essentially a smokescreen of BS for lack of manufacturing jobs in the USA.
It a shame that people in tech don't think of the little guy/gal. Apple has a lot of retail stores full of glass. Who do you think keeps them clean? And clean they are. Plenty of Janitors, Window Cleaners, Maintenance Men, and the list is larger than you would imagine.
Apple's showcased figures are just the tip of the jobs iceberg.