Chevy Volt: The Car from Atlas Shrugged aka perspective for regulation folks

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  • trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,196member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sunilraman View Post


    Guys (and gals, if any), I started a separate thread here:

    http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=145167



    Which is strictly on its merits, please no political discussion, but your insight otherwise very much welcomed.



    Basically, I think it looks like a great car, nice concept, electric and "hybrid" etc all that, only thing maybe is price. But tons of people around the world would still buy it. I think something is whack with the marketing.



    Anyway, have at it, with the caveat above about non-political discussion.



    Personally, I don't give a f*** about the political this-or-that. It seems like on its merits the ~sales~ of 100,000 a year globally are very possible.



    I think it's a problem with GM and its fractious Vauxhall / Opel/ Holden management.



    This is the kind of thing that Steve Jobs could market and distribute with one eye closed.



    Something seems off. Price is not an issue. Just like the price of Macs.



    Anyway here's the Australian version of the Chevy Volt "ad" [explanation video]... Some people say its better than the US version (ignoring accent differences). Please comment:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgd69GQh2Cc



    The problem isn't maybe price. The problem IS price along with large issues with batteries in cold weather.



    I don't believe for a second that Steve Jobs could sell this because there isn't an ecosystem in place that is GM created that makes your life so easy you'll pay a small premium which is what Apple does.



    The problem with the Volt and most hybrids is that the difference in cost is more than you would ever pay in gas savings. My Ford Escort as an example averages 300 miles per 10 gallon tank. The total cost to drive it 100,000 miles even at $5 gas is $16,666 dollars. Even if a hybrid gets double the gas mileage that means they can be a little over $8300 more expensive and you'll come out even.



    The Volt is $40,000. Now if I get the modern equivalent to my car, the Ford Focus, it is at the highest, $21,000 retail price and what's more they get the same MPG when on gas. The $21,000 is the premium model, it isn't lacking in any form.



    Can Apple sell $650 iPhones well against $300-$550 Android phones. Absolutely because what they offer allows a slighly higher price though honestly Apple has price parity with high end Android phones. Can Apple sell the iPhone for $1300? No, not even Steve Jobs could pull that off.
  • brbr Posts: 8,252member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post


    You can't talk about the Volt without talking about the politics.



    No, you can't do it because of your hyperpartisanship. It is certainly possible to do so otherwise.
  • floorjackfloorjack Posts: 2,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BR View Post


    No, you can't do it because of your hyperpartisanship. It is certainly possible to do so otherwise.



    The story of the Volt is the story of politically directed loans and bailouts, crony capitalism, jerry rigged CAFE laws, unions hand overs ....



    It would be like trying to talk about defense contractors and avoid the politics. They are totally intertwined. Willful ignorance would be unintelligent.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post


    The story of the Volt is the story of politically directed loans and bailouts, crony capitalism, jerry rigged CAFE laws, unions hand overs ....



    It would be like trying to talk about defense contractors and avoid the politics. They are totally intertwined. Willful ignorance would be unintelligent.



    +1 this
  • brbr Posts: 8,252member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post


    The story of the Volt is the story of politically directed loans and bailouts, crony capitalism, jerry rigged CAFE laws, unions hand overs ....



    It would be like trying to talk about defense contractors and avoid the politics. They are totally intertwined. Willful ignorance would be unintelligent.



    Can't talk about how it drives and looks without politics...perfectly idiotic.
  • trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,196member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BR View Post


    Can't talk about how it drives and looks without politics...perfectly idiotic.



    I just did but you've got your blinders on while calling everyone else an idiot. The irony kills.
  • jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BR View Post


    Can't talk about how it drives and looks without politics...perfectly idiotic.



    How it drives and looks is a direct result of politics.
  • brbr Posts: 8,252member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post


    How it drives and looks is a direct result of politics.



    So you are saying everyone should talk about the conman Joseph Smith every time Mormons are brought up because Mormonism is a direct result of a convicted conman making shit up?



    Perhaps we should also talk about your parents' genitals in any discussion about you because you are a direct result of their penis and vagina pounding away at each other?



    How it drives and looks CAN be discussed without bringing politics into play. Some of you just DON'T WANT TO.
  • jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    Sorry, you're not going to scare me away from this conversation. Nice try, though. Maybe try attacking my wife or ethnicity next time. You know, change things up a bit.



    If it was the best car ever created you would go out of your way to discuss the politics involved in its creation at every opportunity.



    But since it's a total dud - like most everything government has a significant part in - you don't want to discuss the politics involved.



    You can't have it both ways.
  • brbr Posts: 8,252member
    Objection, hypothetical. Build up that strawman and KNOCK THAT FUCKER DOWN! By the way, try using the subjunctive when discussing hypothetical situations. "If it were the best car ever..." Your argument and grammar are both atrocious.
  • jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    Volt Named 2012 European Car of the Year



    Quote:

    GM North America President Mark Ruess told the newspaper, "this technology is here to stay, we have all kinds of people who want to copy it and go after it. We are not re-evaluating anything…The only question here is what the rate of sales will be."



    When you can just have the government bail you out with money it has taken from the people or borrowed and you don't have to suffer the consequences of failure, you get cars like the Volt and you get executives making statements like this.



    Mark Ruess sounds like a politician.
  • jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    Chevy Volt production to be cut in July



    Quote:

    General Motors plans to halt production of the Chevrolet Volt at its Detroit-Hamtramck plant for three weeks in July, instead of the traditional two-week shutdown.



    "This is (a) normal part of business as managing to market demand," GM spokeswoman Michelle Malcho said in an e-mail.



    Volt production has been idled for a five-week stretch through April 23 because dealers had a surplus of the plug-in extended-range electric vehicle.



    The Volt, which can travel about 35 miles on a single charge of electricity until a gasoline-powered generator kicks in, has yet to live up to the automaker's original sales expectations. Chevrolet sold 1,023 Volts in February.



    Malcho confirmed that GM sold more than 2,000 Volts in March. Full sales figures will be released this morning.



  • brbr Posts: 8,252member
    Your take on that? I suppose what, gloating? Why do you hate America?
  • jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    Not gloating, anger.



    A group of individuals calling themselves a government indebted my grandchildren to China to pay for this failure.



    I'm not ashamed to be an American, I'm ashamed of the government. There's a difference.
  • brbr Posts: 8,252member
    You missed the other thread. Conservatives are now supposed to like the Volt. Fox News said so.
  • jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    You missed the majority of my posts over the past couple years.



    I am not a conservative (at least by the current connotation of the word).
  • trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,196member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BR View Post


    You missed the other thread. Conservatives are now supposed to like the Volt. Fox News said so.



    You missed your Optometry appointment.
  • trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,196member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


    The problem isn't maybe price. The problem IS price along with large issues with batteries in cold weather.



    I don't believe for a second that Steve Jobs could sell this because there isn't an ecosystem in place that is GM created that makes your life so easy you'll pay a small premium which is what Apple does.



    The problem with the Volt and most hybrids is that the difference in cost is more than you would ever pay in gas savings. My Ford Escort as an example averages 300 miles per 10 gallon tank. The total cost to drive it 100,000 miles even at $5 gas is $16,666 dollars. Even if a hybrid gets double the gas mileage that means they can be a little over $8300 more expensive and you'll come out even.



    The Volt is $40,000. Now if I get the modern equivalent to my car, the Ford Focus, it is at the highest, $21,000 retail price and what's more they get the same MPG when on gas. The $21,000 is the premium model, it isn't lacking in any form.



    Can Apple sell $650 iPhones well against $300-$550 Android phones. Absolutely because what they offer allows a slighly higher price though honestly Apple has price parity with high end Android phones. Can Apple sell the iPhone for $1300? No, not even Steve Jobs could pull that off.



    Hey look. The NY Times made the same point as some other guy we all know.



    Quote:

    The Volt, which cost nearly $40,000 before a $7,500 federal tax credit, could take up to 27 years to pay off versus a Chevrolet Cruze, assuming it was regularly driven farther than its battery-only range allows. The payback time could drop to about eight years if gas cost $5 a gallon and the driver remained exclusively on battery power.



    The Lundberg Survey, which tracks fuel prices, said in March that gas prices would need to reach $12.50 a gallon for the Volt to make sense purely on financial terms. It said the Leaf would be competitive with gas at $8.53 a gallon.



  • northgatenorthgate Posts: 4,459member
    Nothing pisses off Republicans more than the American auto worker, that's for sure. They hate the American auto worker's union so much that they're willing to attack America, her citizens, and our reputation in order to hurt it.



    Pretty amazing, really.
  • trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,196member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Northgate View Post


    Nothing pisses off Republicans more than the American auto worker, that's for sure. They hate the American auto worker's union so much that they're willing to attack America, her citizens, and our reputation in order to hurt it.



    Pretty amazing, really.



    They don't seem to hate all those American auto workers who don't happen to be unionized and thus require contract stipulations that make American businesses fail.
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