I only caught the Engadget and Ars liveblogs, but I thought this was all made pretty clear during the keynote. 4G LTE, with international 3G support via HPSA/HSPA+/DC-HSPA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange
This is a total cluster - government regulatory bodies need to get their heads out of their butts and get this mess straightened out quickly as they have screwed consumers with their moronic greedy and over-priced auctions of various bandwidths without consideration of final costs to consumers as well as the cluster fk of incompatible frequencies.
The cost of sovereignty. I think a few world wars were fought to protect it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange
Apple also needs to do a better job of communicating the limitations of the products sold in each country. Why in the world would they be selling a LTE version in the UK that won't work on their home LTE network. This makes no sense and the lack of clarity opens them up to consumer confusion and disappointment.
I'm surprised they aren't marketing a separate European LTE iPad. If they can build a separate "The new iPad(TM)" with EV-DO Rev. A support for Verizon 3G, why couldn't they use a similar Qualcomm chip to support European 800MHz, 1800MHz, and 2600MHz LTE bands.
The Hong Kong Apple Online Store only allows the option to pre-order the WIFI model of the NEW iPad...Is this because 4G isn't compatible here too? Hong Kong has always sold the 3G iPad alongside the Wifi only version.
So how now Apple? What if we want to buy a 3G Compatible NEW iPad?
I'm surprised they aren't marketing a separate European LTE iPad. If they can build a separate "The new iPad(TM)" with EV-DO Rev. A support for Verizon 3G, why couldn't they use a similar Qualcomm chip to support European 800MHz, 1800MHz, and 2600MHz LTE bands.
The Verizon iPad doens't look like a new iPad, it's just that the baseband firmware is flashed for Verizon's network. They may ship with different modules and power amplifiers but they are essentially the same chip. Does the MDM9600 even support LTE for those spectrums? IF it does then you have to wonder why Apple couldn't include all of them or why they choose to exclude some of them. It seems like a lot of the EU only has the promise of LTE at this time. Perhaps the few market and users just didn't warrant the effort in 2012.
LTE is a bit too cutting edge right now and not very established so I don't mind lack of international compatibility.
I don't think LTE is attractive at all right now. It reminds me of how telcos sold data before the first iPhone. So expensive that you couldn't really utilize 3G speeds without breaking the bank. Then the iPhone (I know, not 3G) came along with unlimited data, then the iPhone 3G(s) with either unlimited data or at least semi-reasonable 3GB, $10/GB limits, which allows for nice web browsing and radio streaming.
But what do people do with LTE? Pay $40 in overage fees for each HD movie? I mean, I have a good salary but I definitely don't want to pay so much money for content that requires LTE speeds. So video is out. Maybe people use it for a few high res photos in e-mails (like in Apple's keynote example)? I don't know if that is a killer app for LTE. What is the killer app for LTE, anyways? I though video but at those prices, good luck!
Reminds me of the whole time Verizon didn?t have the iPhone, and bombarded us with ads saying they had had better ?3G? coverage than AT&T... even though Verizon?s ?3G? at the time was more equivalent to AT&T?s ?2G?/EDGE (in speed, coverage area, and lack of simultaneous voice and data).
Yet Verizon marketing could call it ?3G? because technically it was ?third generation.? Very misleading.
Utter nonsense. There is no technical reason or misleading marketing involved. CDMA EVDO was accepted by the ITU as meeting the requirements for a 3G technology, plain and simple. In 2007 Verizon (and Sprint too actually) had Rev A up and running (max 3.1 down 1.8 up) and the best Cingular could do under HSDPA (3G) was 3.6 down and .375 up. (pre HUSPA) Ha. The difference with time? GSM has had several significant 3G upgrades where CDMA has had one, that no one used. EVDO-Rev B would take it to 14.1 and bring simultaneous voice and data but Verizon nixed it with the kickoff to LTE transition.
Personally, i'm glad I'm not investing in the new iPad. That LTE stuff just sounds way too confusing and the rest of the new features are a nice to have not a need to have. I'm perfectly happy with my iPad 2. My iPad doesn't work overseas either on 3G Data...the Apple Store in Beijing told me it was locked down to AT&T so i'm in the same boat either way.
They really need to get some unification world-wide ASAP! it's ridiculous to think that you have to pay carrier's roaming data fees just to get mobile data. When I looked at AT&T's data roaming fees i thought, "why bother even offering this service for those fees?" It's just a huge cluster-f*ck. I travel to China 50% of the year for work so from my POV, this needs to happen soon.
I only caught the Engadget and Ars liveblogs, but I thought this was all made pretty clear during the keynote. 4G LTE, with international 3G support via HPSA/HSPA+/DC-HSPA.
The cost of sovereignty. I think a few world wars were fought to protect it.
I'm surprised they aren't marketing a separate European LTE iPad. If they can build a separate "The new iPad(TM)" with EV-DO Rev. A support for Verizon 3G, why couldn't they use a similar Qualcomm chip to support European 800MHz, 1800MHz, and 2600MHz LTE bands.
It would require more parts. If you look at all of Verizon's other devices (including the MiFi devices) they're all the same bands as the Verizon LTE iPad.
In North America, LTE/UMTS is marketed as a mobile-phone technology only, where as in Europe it's marketed more like ADSL... as far as I can make sense of the Vodaphone Germany page. Maybe (Apple) expects that Users will use WiFi at home to use their home based LTE, and not be popping the sim card out to go outside.
I know Rogers in Canada lets you share the data pool between your phone and other wireless devices, on separate sim cards, so that is within reason too.
Utter nonsense. There is no technical reason or misleading marketing involved. CDMA EVDO was accepted by the ITU as meeting the requirements for a 3G technology, plain and simple. In 2007 Verizon (and Sprint too actually) had Rev A up and running (max 3.1 down 1.8 up) and the best Cingular could do under HSDPA (3G) was 3.6 down and .375 up. (pre HUSPA) Ha. The difference with time? GSM has had several significant 3G upgrades where CDMA has had one, that no one used. EVDO-Rev B would take it to 14.1 and bring simultaneous voice and data but Verizon nixed it with the kickoff to LTE transition.
He didn't say that CDMA2000 wasn't 3G he was noting the marketing differences between the speeds. 3G on Verizon started at 153Kbps with Cingular's 2G being 3x as fast. They accurately though misleadingly claimed the largest 3G network just a AT&T accurately though misleadingly claimed the fastest 3G network.
I am thinking about purchasing an iPad for my mom (87) in the Netherlands, but just a WiFi version. To get connection I plan to get a MiFi that handles local frequencies (preferable 4G, or else just 3G). With that setup I will not have to worry about connectivity and it is probably a cheaper solution.
How will you know you're using LTE and not HSPA+? You can check the throughput and latency but this just tells you if you're not on HSPA+, not if you're on LTE as your LTE might be crap for a variety of reasons.
Not exactly what you were asking, but the best thing about the iOS 5.1 update was that I can now confirm that I only get the slower "3G" HSPA (and not the so-called "4G" HSPA+) at home and work on my 3GS.
That tells me a lot about the value proposition of opting for the Verizon "The new iPad(TM)" over the AT&T version.
Not exactly what you were asking, but the best thing about the iOS 5.1 update was that I can now confirm that I only get the slower "3G" HSPA (and not the so-called "4G" HSPA+) at home and work on my 3GS.
That tells me a lot about the value proposition of opting for the Verizon "The new iPad(TM)" over the AT&T version.
You lost me there. Are you using your 3GS to determine if you have HSPA+ (aka: 4G) at home or work? If so, note that HSPA+ is only available on the iPhone 4S.
You do know the status bar says "LTE" for an LTE connection?
Correct. The status bar will say 4G when on HSPA+ but will indicate LTE when available.
@some other poster : No you do not take your old 3G sim out of your old iPad and put it in you new 3rd Gen iPad. You need to contact AT&T and they will convert your unlimited data plan to the new chip if that didn't happen during the purchase process which it should have. The LTE chip gracefully falls back to 3G when necessary and will roam as it did before. Additionally you can install a 3G chip from a different local carrier when traveling abroad on GSM networks. If they have compatible 4G that will activate automatically as well.
I cannot even begin to tell you how upset I am by this. I was so looking forward to switching to 4g. It truly was the "Must Buy" feature for me.
I cannot believe that America... with its pathetic wireless services gets this when European countries are so much better positioned.
I was even willing to overlook the "slow" 4G speed cap on the iPad.... which caps out at 30Mb/s below our normal 4G speeds.
Quote:
EMT Internet M+4G\t\tup to 8 Mbit/s\t\tup to 2 Mbit/s\t\tUnlimited*\t13,28\t15,94
EMT Internet L+4G\t\tup to 12 Mbit/s\tup to 4 Mbit/s\t\tUnlimited*\t16,62\t19,94
EMT Internet XL+4G\t\tup to 50 Mbit/s\tup to 10 Mbit/s\tUnlimited*\t24,96\t29,95
EMT Internet 4G\t\tup to 100 Mbit/s\tup to 50 Mbit/s\tUnlimited*\t29,12\t34,94
My Message to Apple.... You BETTER remove the "4G" label of the iPad for the EU.... because its NOT 4G. America can put a 4G label on 3G services and the FCC/FTC could find that perfectly okay... but here in Europe we have stringent acceptance of what the truth is!
(I guess this is one situation where you really feel the pinch of being an Expat).
I cannot even begin to tell you how upset I am by this. I was so looking forward to switching to 4g. It truly was the "Must Buy" feature for me.
I cannot believe that America... with its pathetic wireless services gets this when European countries are so much better positioned.
I was even willing to overlook the "slow" 4G speed cap on the iPad.... which caps out at 30Mb/s below our normal 4G speeds.
My Message to Apple.... You BETTER remove the "4G" label of the iPad for the EU.... because its NOT 4G. America can put a 4G label on 3G services and the FCC/FTC could find that perfectly okay... but here in Europe we have stringent acceptance of what the truth is!
(I guess this is one situation where you really feel the pinch of being an Expat).
What country do you live in that claims HSPA+ is not 4G?
You can click on "3G / UMTS / HSPA" to get the coverage of their 3G network (which is almost entirely now DC-HSPA with 42 Mbps). And if you click on "4G / LTE", you see the coverage of their new LTE network (on 800MHz & 1800 MHz).
I now it most be a bit ironic for people from the US to see T-Mobile (although they don't use that brand officially here in Germany at the moment) state that 4G starts with LTE. I guess it's because in Germany, all 4 operators are basically on equal footing technology & spectrum wise, so there was no need to "lower the standards" in marketing speak.
Comments
several attempts, my iPhone saying 4G is averaging 2.8 MB download, iPad 2 with 3G is 1.8
Upload is 1.5 on 4G and .9 on 3G
This is a total cluster - government regulatory bodies need to get their heads out of their butts and get this mess straightened out quickly as they have screwed consumers with their moronic greedy and over-priced auctions of various bandwidths without consideration of final costs to consumers as well as the cluster fk of incompatible frequencies.
The cost of sovereignty. I think a few world wars were fought to protect it.
Apple also needs to do a better job of communicating the limitations of the products sold in each country. Why in the world would they be selling a LTE version in the UK that won't work on their home LTE network. This makes no sense and the lack of clarity opens them up to consumer confusion and disappointment.
I'm surprised they aren't marketing a separate European LTE iPad. If they can build a separate "The new iPad (TM)"
So how now Apple? What if we want to buy a 3G Compatible NEW iPad?
I'm surprised they aren't marketing a separate European LTE iPad. If they can build a separate "The new iPad (TM)"
The Verizon iPad doens't look like a new iPad, it's just that the baseband firmware is flashed for Verizon's network. They may ship with different modules and power amplifiers but they are essentially the same chip. Does the MDM9600 even support LTE for those spectrums? IF it does then you have to wonder why Apple couldn't include all of them or why they choose to exclude some of them. It seems like a lot of the EU only has the promise of LTE at this time. Perhaps the few market and users just didn't warrant the effort in 2012.
I don't think LTE is attractive at all right now. It reminds me of how telcos sold data before the first iPhone. So expensive that you couldn't really utilize 3G speeds without breaking the bank. Then the iPhone (I know, not 3G) came along with unlimited data, then the iPhone 3G(s) with either unlimited data or at least semi-reasonable 3GB, $10/GB limits, which allows for nice web browsing and radio streaming.
But what do people do with LTE? Pay $40 in overage fees for each HD movie? I mean, I have a good salary but I definitely don't want to pay so much money for content that requires LTE speeds. So video is out. Maybe people use it for a few high res photos in e-mails (like in Apple's keynote example)? I don't know if that is a killer app for LTE. What is the killer app for LTE, anyways? I though video but at those prices, good luck!
Reminds me of the whole time Verizon didn?t have the iPhone, and bombarded us with ads saying they had had better ?3G? coverage than AT&T... even though Verizon?s ?3G? at the time was more equivalent to AT&T?s ?2G?/EDGE (in speed, coverage area, and lack of simultaneous voice and data).
Yet Verizon marketing could call it ?3G? because technically it was ?third generation.? Very misleading.
Utter nonsense. There is no technical reason or misleading marketing involved. CDMA EVDO was accepted by the ITU as meeting the requirements for a 3G technology, plain and simple. In 2007 Verizon (and Sprint too actually) had Rev A up and running (max 3.1 down 1.8 up) and the best Cingular could do under HSDPA (3G) was 3.6 down and .375 up. (pre HUSPA) Ha. The difference with time? GSM has had several significant 3G upgrades where CDMA has had one, that no one used. EVDO-Rev B would take it to 14.1 and bring simultaneous voice and data but Verizon nixed it with the kickoff to LTE transition.
They really need to get some unification world-wide ASAP! it's ridiculous to think that you have to pay carrier's roaming data fees just to get mobile data. When I looked at AT&T's data roaming fees i thought, "why bother even offering this service for those fees?" It's just a huge cluster-f*ck. I travel to China 50% of the year for work so from my POV, this needs to happen soon.
I only caught the Engadget and Ars liveblogs, but I thought this was all made pretty clear during the keynote. 4G LTE, with international 3G support via HPSA/HSPA+/DC-HSPA.
The cost of sovereignty. I think a few world wars were fought to protect it.
I'm surprised they aren't marketing a separate European LTE iPad. If they can build a separate "The new iPad (TM)"
It would require more parts. If you look at all of Verizon's other devices (including the MiFi devices) they're all the same bands as the Verizon LTE iPad.
In North America, LTE/UMTS is marketed as a mobile-phone technology only, where as in Europe it's marketed more like ADSL... as far as I can make sense of the Vodaphone Germany page. Maybe (Apple) expects that Users will use WiFi at home to use their home based LTE, and not be popping the sim card out to go outside.
I know Rogers in Canada lets you share the data pool between your phone and other wireless devices, on separate sim cards, so that is within reason too.
Utter nonsense. There is no technical reason or misleading marketing involved. CDMA EVDO was accepted by the ITU as meeting the requirements for a 3G technology, plain and simple. In 2007 Verizon (and Sprint too actually) had Rev A up and running (max 3.1 down 1.8 up) and the best Cingular could do under HSDPA (3G) was 3.6 down and .375 up. (pre HUSPA) Ha. The difference with time? GSM has had several significant 3G upgrades where CDMA has had one, that no one used. EVDO-Rev B would take it to 14.1 and bring simultaneous voice and data but Verizon nixed it with the kickoff to LTE transition.
He didn't say that CDMA2000 wasn't 3G he was noting the marketing differences between the speeds. 3G on Verizon started at 153Kbps with Cingular's 2G being 3x as fast. They accurately though misleadingly claimed the largest 3G network just a AT&T accurately though misleadingly claimed the fastest 3G network.
You're 4G is the carrier says your 4G. It's a marketing term, nothing else.
How will you know you're using LTE and not HSPA+? .
Maybe there will be an app for that.
How will you know you're using LTE and not HSPA+? You can check the throughput and latency but this just tells you if you're not on HSPA+, not if you're on LTE as your LTE might be crap for a variety of reasons.
Not exactly what you were asking, but the best thing about the iOS 5.1 update was that I can now confirm that I only get the slower "3G" HSPA (and not the so-called "4G" HSPA+) at home and work on my 3GS.
That tells me a lot about the value proposition of opting for the Verizon "The new iPad (TM)"
Maybe there will be an app for that.
You do know the status bar says "LTE" for an LTE connection?
Not exactly what you were asking, but the best thing about the iOS 5.1 update was that I can now confirm that I only get the slower "3G" HSPA (and not the so-called "4G" HSPA+) at home and work on my 3GS.
That tells me a lot about the value proposition of opting for the Verizon "The new iPad (TM)"
You lost me there. Are you using your 3GS to determine if you have HSPA+ (aka: 4G) at home or work? If so, note that HSPA+ is only available on the iPhone 4S.
You do know the status bar says "LTE" for an LTE connection?
Correct. The status bar will say 4G when on HSPA+ but will indicate LTE when available.
@some other poster : No you do not take your old 3G sim out of your old iPad and put it in you new 3rd Gen iPad. You need to contact AT&T and they will convert your unlimited data plan to the new chip if that didn't happen during the purchase process which it should have. The LTE chip gracefully falls back to 3G when necessary and will roam as it did before. Additionally you can install a 3G chip from a different local carrier when traveling abroad on GSM networks. If they have compatible 4G that will activate automatically as well.
No need to panic
I cannot believe that America... with its pathetic wireless services gets this when European countries are so much better positioned.
I was even willing to overlook the "slow" 4G speed cap on the iPad.... which caps out at 30Mb/s below our normal 4G speeds.
EMT Internet M+4G\t\tup to 8 Mbit/s\t\tup to 2 Mbit/s\t\tUnlimited*\t13,28\t15,94
EMT Internet L+4G\t\tup to 12 Mbit/s\tup to 4 Mbit/s\t\tUnlimited*\t16,62\t19,94
EMT Internet XL+4G\t\tup to 50 Mbit/s\tup to 10 Mbit/s\tUnlimited*\t24,96\t29,95
EMT Internet 4G\t\tup to 100 Mbit/s\tup to 50 Mbit/s\tUnlimited*\t29,12\t34,94
My Message to Apple.... You BETTER remove the "4G" label of the iPad for the EU.... because its NOT 4G. America can put a 4G label on 3G services and the FCC/FTC could find that perfectly okay... but here in Europe we have stringent acceptance of what the truth is!
(I guess this is one situation where you really feel the pinch of being an Expat).
I cannot even begin to tell you how upset I am by this. I was so looking forward to switching to 4g. It truly was the "Must Buy" feature for me.
I cannot believe that America... with its pathetic wireless services gets this when European countries are so much better positioned.
I was even willing to overlook the "slow" 4G speed cap on the iPad.... which caps out at 30Mb/s below our normal 4G speeds.
My Message to Apple.... You BETTER remove the "4G" label of the iPad for the EU.... because its NOT 4G. America can put a 4G label on 3G services and the FCC/FTC could find that perfectly okay... but here in Europe we have stringent acceptance of what the truth is!
(I guess this is one situation where you really feel the pinch of being an Expat).
What country do you live in that claims HSPA+ is not 4G?
I think we will have 3G access only
What country do you live in that claims HSPA+ is not 4G?
That would be Estonia. Our HSPA is running at 21.6Mb/s. Here is the Tech separation that our provider has.
https://www.emt.ee/en/web/www/firmas...line-vorguinfo
Click on the "User Interface Specifications in AS EMT Public mobile Network"
What country do you live in that claims HSPA+ is not 4G?
Germany, for example.
This is the coverage map of Deutsche Telekom (T-Mobile):
http://www.t-mobile.de/funkversorgun...5400-_,00.html
You can click on "3G / UMTS / HSPA" to get the coverage of their 3G network (which is almost entirely now DC-HSPA with 42 Mbps). And if you click on "4G / LTE", you see the coverage of their new LTE network (on 800MHz & 1800 MHz).
I now it most be a bit ironic for people from the US to see T-Mobile (although they don't use that brand officially here in Germany at the moment) state that 4G starts with LTE. I guess it's because in Germany, all 4 operators are basically on equal footing technology & spectrum wise, so there was no need to "lower the standards" in marketing speak.