Austin is more like the west coast than like the rest of Texas...
Well "the west coast" is a pretty big place. When I compare Austin to other places, I say it's like Boulder or the Portland/Beaverton axis. College town, state capitol, liberal/progressive, highly educated and young population, high tech bent. No wonder they nickname Austin "Silicon Gulch" and Portland/Beaverton "Silicon Forest".
Well "the west coast" is a pretty big place. When I compare Austin to other places, I say it's like Boulder or the Portland/Beaverton axis. College town, state capitol, liberal/progressive, highly educated and young population, high tech bent. No wonder they nickname Austin "Silicon Gulch" and Portland/Beaverton "Silicon Forest".
I meant it in the exact way you are describing. I thought it was "Silicon Hills"?
I meant it in the exact way you are describing. I thought it was "Silicon Hills"?
I've heard it both ways. "Silicon Hills" is probably more accurate since Austin on the west side is hilly (gateway to the Texas Hill Country). Barton Creek is certainly gulch-like in many spots along the hike/bike trail, but that's a much smaller feature topographically speaking than the hills.
You are right, a long-haired India-travelling Zen Budhist LSD-using vegetarian hippie college dropout like Jobs would have done real well in Texas. Either he would have grown up as a totally different person, or he would have left as soon as he could, hopefully before being incarcerated or shot.
Glad you brought that up, (finally, someone!) because the psychedelic culture around Palo Alto and Stanford had everything to do with the early conceptions of the PERSONAL computer, just as much as the engineering reservoir of all the companies like Xerox and HP that were resistant to the PERSONAL computer.
It wasn't the liberal consciousness so much as the liberated consciousness that conceived of the idea of mind amplification through personal electronic technology. Liberated by LSD, primarily, along with a lot of pot. Another government innovation-support program, because the CIA was the first supplier of acid to the crucial innovators like Ken Kesey and Stuart Brand. Then Steve got some later trickle down, and the rest is history, and our living present.
What the Dormouse Said by Markoff is the best source that I know of on the personal computer revolution from the psychotropic point of view. It's all in there, and you left-brain right-wing nuts had better deal with it. California is owed a huge debt by the world, just like we owe something to Athens and Genoa and so on.
By the way, Steve Jobs might have been able to live in Austin, out of all of Texas, because it was as liberated as Palo Alto back in the day, so I'm told. But he wouldn't have been able to draw on the "straight" engineering culture around Stanford.
Edit: And it was the psychedelic consciousness that gave rise to the other meme complex that so defines California, which the left-brain right-wing nuts love to hate, namely global environmental awareness. This was most typified in the 60s by Stuart Brand's Whole Earth Catalog, which Steve quotes in his commencement speech: stay hungry, stay foolish. A completely psychedelic idea, and it defines Apple more than many people realize.
You are right, a long-haired India-travelling Zen Budhist LSD-using vegetarian hippie college dropout like Jobs would have done real well in Texas. Either he would have grown up as a totally different person, or he would have left as soon as he could, hopefully before being incarcerated or shot.
I didn't mention anything about Steve living in Texas.
Texas has an authoritarian culture that results in companies that don't think outside the box, like Dell or Compaq. It's fine for a call center or an accounting services hub, but not for hardware design or software development of the kind Apple does.
Sounds like a big call center. It is their decision to make, but it would have been nice to see another commitment from Apple to build something like this in another rural community.
You typically build things close to were the potential work force somewhat already exists not in nowheresville where nothing exists.
Everything apparently. I have lived in Texas my whole life and it really is a place full of narrow minded, belligerent people who are irrationally afraid of government. We have high pollution, high poverty, high hunger rates and businesses that are abusive of their employees. All made possible by the best state government money can buy.
I lived in Texas my whole life and pretty much disagree with everything you said. I moved to California to change jobs a year ago and find it to be full of narrow minded, belligerent people irrationally afraid of plastic shopping bags. Oh yeah, and it's full of shitty Asian women drivers. I've been subjected to a smog cloud hanging above my city, panhandlers constantly asking me for a handout, and visual overload thanks to signs that constantly remind me that anything I eat, drink, touch, smell, or taste is known to the state of California (though apparently nobody else) to cause cancer. Maybe. At least it did in a lab rat somewhere. All made possible by the best state government that money can buy. Which is impressive, considering California has the highest (and most repressive) state income taxes in the country and still manages to come up more than a few dollars short every year.
Point being, everyone's experience is different. Your milage may vary. And yes, I know narrow-minded, belligerent people in Texas, just like I know nice, polite people in California. I've also been subjected to shitty Asian women drivers in Houston and Dallas. California has an amazing wine industry. Texas has Shiner Bock (no one likes you, Lone Star...). California has miles of beautiful coastline. Texas has miles of flat land that gives you a spectacular view of the sunrise, sunset and stars. Texas has the Lone Star on its flag, California has a bear on its flag! Texas has Whataburger, California has In-N-Out. California has Apple. Texas has Apple. Seems like both places are pretty bitchin' to me.
And they were founded years ago, the hardware makers generally being spinoffs of companies like HP, Varian, Fairchild and others dating back as far as the 1930s.
There is no question that California has become increasingly hostile to businesses operating in the state, and it's not getting better. More and more companies are either moving out, or limiting any expansion to areas outside California.
A pity, really, it's a beautiful state with (still) enormous resources, both natural and human. I've lived here all my life, more than 60 years, and I don't think I'll be able to stay much longer.
I'm just curious. What about it makes it so unbearable? What has happened to you that you have to just leave? I've lived here 45 years and I still think it's a great place to live. I've changed careers and went from one field to another without much effort or hit to my bottom line.
Also, can you show me a list of all these companies fleeing the state and the reasons for it? I'm just curious.
Texas has an authoritarian culture that results in companies that don't think outside the box, like Dell or Compaq. It's fine for a call center or an accounting services hub, but not for hardware design or software development of the kind Apple does.
crofl
heard of Intel, IBM, AMD for processors? a lot of their designs right here in Austin
Dell of course was founded here
Texas Instruments and Samsung and Motorola (Freescale) also have huge presences here. National Instruments is here, MCC is here.
Software development? Are ya kiddin? Austin alone has Tivoli (now part of IBM), Origin Systems, IBM itself, Sybase, Trilogy, Winternals, Pervasive, Vignette, Motive, Denali, United Devices, BMC, NCsoft, ....... and new startups all the time.
I didn't mention anything about Steve living in Texas.
But your point was that Apple was born in California because Steve happened to be there by chance, meaning that it could have been created anywhere else Steve would have grown up.
My point is that this is flat wrong. Every company, every human group of whatever nature, is a function of a time, a place, and a culture. Apple especially had to happen in California, and the company is well aware of this.
heard of Intel, IBM, AMD for processors? a lot of their designs right here in Austin
Dell of course was founded here
Texas Instruments and Samsung and Motorola (Freescale) also have huge presences here. National Instruments is here, MCC is here.
Software development? Are ya kiddin? Austin alone has Tivoli (now part of IBM), Origin Systems, IBM itself, Sybase, Trilogy, Winternals, Pervasive, Vignette, Motive, Denali, United Devices, BMC, NCsoft, ....... and new startups all the time.
Those companies are precisely my point. Lots of smart semiconductor engineers in Texas. But what happened? TI treated every product it created as a commodity and quickly collapsed prices. Remember when they manufactured watches? Dell is the same way. Compaq was doing badly and got bought. All the software you mention is enterprise software, and nothing is slower moving in terms of innovation than the enterprise.
I did not say, would never say, that Texan professionals are dumb. I am saying the culture there is more rigid and thus at a disadvantage to California's when it comes to creating the sorts of breakthrough products Apple does.
heard of Intel, IBM, AMD for processors? a lot of their designs right here in Austin
Dell of course was founded here
Texas Instruments and Samsung and Motorola (Freescale) also have huge presences here. National Instruments is here, MCC is here.
Software development? Are ya kiddin? Austin alone has Tivoli (now part of IBM), Origin Systems, IBM itself, Sybase, Trilogy, Winternals, Pervasive, Vignette, Motive, Denali, United Devices, BMC, NCsoft, ....... and new startups all the time.
Cisco Systems does switch dev, Intel, Oracle (formerly Sun), AT&T Labs, Netspeed (DSL pioneers now owned by Cisco), Tipping Point (now part of HP), NetQOS (now part of CA)
And to say Compaq didn't innovate? Rod and his friends changed the course of the PC - little guy going up against the Big Blue giant. I like it that Origin systems is Enterprise too. Look, just cause we all played Wing Commander at work doesn't mean it's Enterprise software.
Those companies are precisely my point. Lots of smart semiconductor engineers in Texas. But what happened? TI treated every product it created as a commodity and quickly collapsed prices. Remember when they manufactured watches? Dell is the same way. Compaq was doing badly and got bought. All the software you mention is enterprise software, and nothing is slower moving in terms of innovation than the enterprise.
I did not say, would never say, that Texan professionals are dumb. I am saying the culture there is more rigid and thus at a disadvantage to California's when it comes to creating the sorts of breakthrough products Apple does.
Yeah, California isn't really into that Enterprise stuff. HP, Oracle, Sun, Cisco, 3Com, NetApp, BEA, Amdahl, Veritas, Tibco, VeriSign, VMware, IBM..... really not that important.
Yep, not much innovation in the enterprise. Slow moving. No competition. Not much profit and revenue to be had. IBM+HP+Oracle+EMC = about $600B of market cap. And beating each others' brains in every day. IBM with the most patents worldwide for many years now. Oh and cloud computing's not coming on strong... salesforce.com another Enterprise CA company.
Look, for chrisssake, Apple is a unique entity, literally unprecedented in the technology business world's history. You can't make generalizations like you are doing without looking dumb.
Also, and I don't know why I didn't think of this before, saying "Texas has an authoritarian culture" just proves that you know zip about Texas. The last thing any Texan from anywhere in Texas' history would claim is that they bow to authority. Texas is the home of the cowboy way, and the independent Texas Republic.
But your point was that Apple was born in California because Steve happened to be there by chance, meaning that it could have been created anywhere else Steve would have grown up.
My point is that this is flat wrong. Every company, every human group of whatever nature, is a function of a time, a place, and a culture. Apple especially had to happen in California, and the company is well aware of this.
I did not say or imply Steve could have created Apple anywhere he grew up. You are criticizing your own hidden meanings.
But you implied that Apple being in California was an accident, whether you meant to or not.
Not true, not an accident. Alonso is right about that.
Steve Jobs met Steve Wozniak when fellow Homestead High School student, Bill Fernandez, introduced them to each other. In my opinion Steve Jobs would not have met Woz and there would have been no Apple at all if Paul Jobs had not bought a home where he did. Meeting Woz at a certain moment in history, just before the personal computer revolution, gave Steve Jobs the world-wide recognition and finances to fully utilize his talents to build companies like Apple, NeXT and Pixar.
In my opinion Steve would not have met Woz and there would have been no Apple at all if Paul Jobs had not bought a home where he did. Meeting Woz at a certain moment in history, just before the personal computer revolution, gave Steve the world-wide recognition and finances to fully utilize his talents to build companies like Apple, NeXT and Pixar.
Right, luck and circumstance and Woz and all. But what attracted Paul Jobs to California? And what was it about Woz and Jobs that made THEM among the few chief architects of the personal computer? They and others around them MADE the personal computer revolution happen, it didn't just happen. And let's not forget the government contracts that made Silicon Valley a viable venture in the early days.
Right, luck and circumstance and Woz and all. But what attracted Paul Jobs to California? And what was it about Woz and Jobs that made THEM among the few chief architects of the personal computer? They and others around them MADE the personal computer revolution happen, it didn't just happen. And let's not forget the government contracts that made Silicon Valley a viable venture in the early days.
I agree and great questions. I don't know what attracted Paul Jobs to California. Brilliance and luck allowed Jobs and Woz to be among the few chief architects of the personal computer. In my opinion if they had not met the personal computer revolution would have happened without them but it would have played out differently and we would be far worse off today because of it. But we wouldn't know it.
Comments
Austin is more like the west coast than like the rest of Texas...
Well "the west coast" is a pretty big place. When I compare Austin to other places, I say it's like Boulder or the Portland/Beaverton axis. College town, state capitol, liberal/progressive, highly educated and young population, high tech bent. No wonder they nickname Austin "Silicon Gulch" and Portland/Beaverton "Silicon Forest".
Well "the west coast" is a pretty big place. When I compare Austin to other places, I say it's like Boulder or the Portland/Beaverton axis. College town, state capitol, liberal/progressive, highly educated and young population, high tech bent. No wonder they nickname Austin "Silicon Gulch" and Portland/Beaverton "Silicon Forest".
I meant it in the exact way you are describing.
I meant it in the exact way you are describing.
I've heard it both ways. "Silicon Hills" is probably more accurate since Austin on the west side is hilly (gateway to the Texas Hill Country). Barton Creek is certainly gulch-like in many spots along the hike/bike trail, but that's a much smaller feature topographically speaking than the hills.
You are right, a long-haired India-travelling Zen Budhist LSD-using vegetarian hippie college dropout like Jobs would have done real well in Texas. Either he would have grown up as a totally different person, or he would have left as soon as he could, hopefully before being incarcerated or shot.
Glad you brought that up, (finally, someone!) because the psychedelic culture around Palo Alto and Stanford had everything to do with the early conceptions of the PERSONAL computer, just as much as the engineering reservoir of all the companies like Xerox and HP that were resistant to the PERSONAL computer.
It wasn't the liberal consciousness so much as the liberated consciousness that conceived of the idea of mind amplification through personal electronic technology. Liberated by LSD, primarily, along with a lot of pot. Another government innovation-support program, because the CIA was the first supplier of acid to the crucial innovators like Ken Kesey and Stuart Brand. Then Steve got some later trickle down, and the rest is history, and our living present.
What the Dormouse Said by Markoff is the best source that I know of on the personal computer revolution from the psychotropic point of view. It's all in there, and you left-brain right-wing nuts had better deal with it. California is owed a huge debt by the world, just like we owe something to Athens and Genoa and so on.
By the way, Steve Jobs might have been able to live in Austin, out of all of Texas, because it was as liberated as Palo Alto back in the day, so I'm told. But he wouldn't have been able to draw on the "straight" engineering culture around Stanford.
Edit: And it was the psychedelic consciousness that gave rise to the other meme complex that so defines California, which the left-brain right-wing nuts love to hate, namely global environmental awareness. This was most typified in the 60s by Stuart Brand's Whole Earth Catalog, which Steve quotes in his commencement speech: stay hungry, stay foolish. A completely psychedelic idea, and it defines Apple more than many people realize.
You are right, a long-haired India-travelling Zen Budhist LSD-using vegetarian hippie college dropout like Jobs would have done real well in Texas. Either he would have grown up as a totally different person, or he would have left as soon as he could, hopefully before being incarcerated or shot.
I didn't mention anything about Steve living in Texas.
Texas has an authoritarian culture that results in companies that don't think outside the box, like Dell or Compaq. It's fine for a call center or an accounting services hub, but not for hardware design or software development of the kind Apple does.
This made me laugh. Thank you.
Sounds like a big call center. It is their decision to make, but it would have been nice to see another commitment from Apple to build something like this in another rural community.
You typically build things close to were the potential work force somewhat already exists not in nowheresville where nothing exists.
Everything apparently. I have lived in Texas my whole life and it really is a place full of narrow minded, belligerent people who are irrationally afraid of government. We have high pollution, high poverty, high hunger rates and businesses that are abusive of their employees. All made possible by the best state government money can buy.
I lived in Texas my whole life and pretty much disagree with everything you said. I moved to California to change jobs a year ago and find it to be full of narrow minded, belligerent people irrationally afraid of plastic shopping bags. Oh yeah, and it's full of shitty Asian women drivers. I've been subjected to a smog cloud hanging above my city, panhandlers constantly asking me for a handout, and visual overload thanks to signs that constantly remind me that anything I eat, drink, touch, smell, or taste is known to the state of California (though apparently nobody else) to cause cancer. Maybe. At least it did in a lab rat somewhere. All made possible by the best state government that money can buy. Which is impressive, considering California has the highest (and most repressive) state income taxes in the country and still manages to come up more than a few dollars short every year.
Point being, everyone's experience is different. Your milage may vary. And yes, I know narrow-minded, belligerent people in Texas, just like I know nice, polite people in California. I've also been subjected to shitty Asian women drivers in Houston and Dallas. California has an amazing wine industry. Texas has Shiner Bock (no one likes you, Lone Star...). California has miles of beautiful coastline. Texas has miles of flat land that gives you a spectacular view of the sunrise, sunset and stars. Texas has the Lone Star on its flag, California has a bear on its flag! Texas has Whataburger, California has In-N-Out. California has Apple. Texas has Apple. Seems like both places are pretty bitchin' to me.
And they were founded years ago, the hardware makers generally being spinoffs of companies like HP, Varian, Fairchild and others dating back as far as the 1930s.
There is no question that California has become increasingly hostile to businesses operating in the state, and it's not getting better. More and more companies are either moving out, or limiting any expansion to areas outside California.
A pity, really, it's a beautiful state with (still) enormous resources, both natural and human. I've lived here all my life, more than 60 years, and I don't think I'll be able to stay much longer.
I'm just curious. What about it makes it so unbearable? What has happened to you that you have to just leave? I've lived here 45 years and I still think it's a great place to live. I've changed careers and went from one field to another without much effort or hit to my bottom line.
Also, can you show me a list of all these companies fleeing the state and the reasons for it? I'm just curious.
Texas has an authoritarian culture that results in companies that don't think outside the box, like Dell or Compaq. It's fine for a call center or an accounting services hub, but not for hardware design or software development of the kind Apple does.
crofl
heard of Intel, IBM, AMD for processors? a lot of their designs right here in Austin
Dell of course was founded here
Texas Instruments and Samsung and Motorola (Freescale) also have huge presences here. National Instruments is here, MCC is here.
Software development? Are ya kiddin? Austin alone has Tivoli (now part of IBM), Origin Systems, IBM itself, Sybase, Trilogy, Winternals, Pervasive, Vignette, Motive, Denali, United Devices, BMC, NCsoft, ....... and new startups all the time.
I didn't mention anything about Steve living in Texas.
But your point was that Apple was born in California because Steve happened to be there by chance, meaning that it could have been created anywhere else Steve would have grown up.
My point is that this is flat wrong. Every company, every human group of whatever nature, is a function of a time, a place, and a culture. Apple especially had to happen in California, and the company is well aware of this.
crofl
heard of Intel, IBM, AMD for processors? a lot of their designs right here in Austin
Dell of course was founded here
Texas Instruments and Samsung and Motorola (Freescale) also have huge presences here. National Instruments is here, MCC is here.
Software development? Are ya kiddin? Austin alone has Tivoli (now part of IBM), Origin Systems, IBM itself, Sybase, Trilogy, Winternals, Pervasive, Vignette, Motive, Denali, United Devices, BMC, NCsoft, ....... and new startups all the time.
Those companies are precisely my point. Lots of smart semiconductor engineers in Texas. But what happened? TI treated every product it created as a commodity and quickly collapsed prices. Remember when they manufactured watches? Dell is the same way. Compaq was doing badly and got bought. All the software you mention is enterprise software, and nothing is slower moving in terms of innovation than the enterprise.
I did not say, would never say, that Texan professionals are dumb. I am saying the culture there is more rigid and thus at a disadvantage to California's when it comes to creating the sorts of breakthrough products Apple does.
crofl
heard of Intel, IBM, AMD for processors? a lot of their designs right here in Austin
Dell of course was founded here
Texas Instruments and Samsung and Motorola (Freescale) also have huge presences here. National Instruments is here, MCC is here.
Software development? Are ya kiddin? Austin alone has Tivoli (now part of IBM), Origin Systems, IBM itself, Sybase, Trilogy, Winternals, Pervasive, Vignette, Motive, Denali, United Devices, BMC, NCsoft, ....... and new startups all the time.
Cisco Systems does switch dev, Intel, Oracle (formerly Sun), AT&T Labs, Netspeed (DSL pioneers now owned by Cisco), Tipping Point (now part of HP), NetQOS (now part of CA)
And to say Compaq didn't innovate? Rod and his friends changed the course of the PC - little guy going up against the Big Blue giant. I like it that Origin systems is Enterprise too.
Those companies are precisely my point. Lots of smart semiconductor engineers in Texas. But what happened? TI treated every product it created as a commodity and quickly collapsed prices. Remember when they manufactured watches? Dell is the same way. Compaq was doing badly and got bought. All the software you mention is enterprise software, and nothing is slower moving in terms of innovation than the enterprise.
I did not say, would never say, that Texan professionals are dumb. I am saying the culture there is more rigid and thus at a disadvantage to California's when it comes to creating the sorts of breakthrough products Apple does.
Yeah, California isn't really into that Enterprise stuff. HP, Oracle, Sun, Cisco, 3Com, NetApp, BEA, Amdahl, Veritas, Tibco, VeriSign, VMware, IBM..... really not that important.
Yep, not much innovation in the enterprise. Slow moving. No competition. Not much profit and revenue to be had. IBM+HP+Oracle+EMC = about $600B of market cap. And beating each others' brains in every day. IBM with the most patents worldwide for many years now. Oh and cloud computing's not coming on strong... salesforce.com another Enterprise CA company.
Look, for chrisssake, Apple is a unique entity, literally unprecedented in the technology business world's history. You can't make generalizations like you are doing without looking dumb.
But your point was that Apple was born in California because Steve happened to be there by chance, meaning that it could have been created anywhere else Steve would have grown up.
My point is that this is flat wrong. Every company, every human group of whatever nature, is a function of a time, a place, and a culture. Apple especially had to happen in California, and the company is well aware of this.
I did not say or imply Steve could have created Apple anywhere he grew up. You are criticizing your own hidden meanings.
I did not say or imply Steve could have created Apple anywhere he grew up. You are criticizing your own hidden meanings.
But you implied that Apple being in California was an accident, whether you meant to or not.
Not true, not an accident. Alonso is right about that.
But you implied that Apple being in California was an accident, whether you meant to or not.
Not true, not an accident. Alonso is right about that.
Steve Jobs met Steve Wozniak when fellow Homestead High School student, Bill Fernandez, introduced them to each other. In my opinion Steve Jobs would not have met Woz and there would have been no Apple at all if Paul Jobs had not bought a home where he did. Meeting Woz at a certain moment in history, just before the personal computer revolution, gave Steve Jobs the world-wide recognition and finances to fully utilize his talents to build companies like Apple, NeXT and Pixar.
In my opinion Steve would not have met Woz and there would have been no Apple at all if Paul Jobs had not bought a home where he did. Meeting Woz at a certain moment in history, just before the personal computer revolution, gave Steve the world-wide recognition and finances to fully utilize his talents to build companies like Apple, NeXT and Pixar.
Right, luck and circumstance and Woz and all. But what attracted Paul Jobs to California? And what was it about Woz and Jobs that made THEM among the few chief architects of the personal computer? They and others around them MADE the personal computer revolution happen, it didn't just happen. And let's not forget the government contracts that made Silicon Valley a viable venture in the early days.
Right, luck and circumstance and Woz and all. But what attracted Paul Jobs to California? And what was it about Woz and Jobs that made THEM among the few chief architects of the personal computer? They and others around them MADE the personal computer revolution happen, it didn't just happen. And let's not forget the government contracts that made Silicon Valley a viable venture in the early days.
I agree and great questions. I don't know what attracted Paul Jobs to California. Brilliance and luck allowed Jobs and Woz to be among the few chief architects of the personal computer. In my opinion if they had not met the personal computer revolution would have happened without them but it would have played out differently and we would be far worse off today because of it. But we wouldn't know it.