After getting my grubby little hands on a 17" MacBook pro for a few days I have to agree. Lugging that big beast around would get old rather quickly. Even if it gets the air treatment that would still be to big to take everywhere. IMHO.
Really? I've been using my 17" MBP since 2006 and haven't found it to be too much to 'lug around'. Sure, it's a big computer, but unless you're incredibly weak, a 6 pound computer instead of a 3 pound computer shouldn't make THAT much of a difference.
Would I like it to be lighter? Sure. But I wouldn't claim that it's not usable because of the size.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
In CPU performance? In GPU performance? In drive performance? The only one that is likely is in drive performance because a 7200 RPM HDD is slow.
I think the point is that in terms of usability and responsiveness, the Air is faster than a MBP for the average user. Again, keep in mind that the quote that started this thread was that a 15" MBA would kill of the Pro FOR THE AVERAGE USER. The average non-pro user isn't doing anything that requires massive CPU or GPU performance, so most people would see a 15" Air with SSD as being at least equal to a conventional 15" Pro with HDD.
I think people are being a tad short sighted here. Yes a 15" version of the air wouldn't be a "Pro" replacement.
But if they were to meld the air design into a 15" chassis, remove the optical drive and use all the additional space to build in the required logic boards etc to include Ethernet & additional FireWire/TB ports I reckon they'd be on to a winner.
To me that sounds like a convoluted line up. A MBA with the performance of a MBP sounds to me like it should be marketed as a MBP.
Sure. I am not convinced I am right . But does Apple market the MBP separate form the MBA? What if they were all MacBooks, but top of the line had the 'pro' moniker added. Cars don't tend to change form factor just because they have 4wd or a more powerful engine. The Air form factor is no longer special, for Apple or otherwise, and so to market it as distinct from their other offerings seems sort of passé.
Having said that, Perhaps having two form factors for every laptop makes sense from a profit pov. I imagine not, but I stand to be corrected.
Because of their push for Thunderbolt so heavily. Including USB 3.0 at the same time would do nothing but diminish any reason to go to Thunderbolt. At least in the case of having USB 2.0 and Thunderbolt you have enough differentiation. USB 3 and Thunderbolt, not as much. Sure, theoretical peak is only half of thunderbolt, but that's substantially less difference than than the 20 times slower USB 2.0. And honestly you are probably not going to ever saturate USB 3.0 completely very often anyway.
USB 3.0 is a given for the new models due to it being already integrated on Ivy Bridge.
As for it diminishing any reason to go to Thunderbolt, 3rd party manufacturers have already seen to that. Thunderbolt will find a niche in high-end video editing businesses and such like but it was DOA for the consumer mass market.
I have been tempted to do this for a long time with my MB (Alu but pre pro by about a week!), but as my machine is getting long in the tooth anyway I am not sure it is worth it.
Same here. I would consider it (I almost never use the OD on my Pro), but the computer's well over 5 years old and I just don't see the point.
I did try a hybrid hard disk (HDD/SSD combination) a couple of years ago and must say that I really didn't see that much difference. While people rave about the hybrids, I didn't notice much improvement.
The quote is referring to the 15" pro being "killed" in the consumer market IE average consumers buying the pro because of its screen size but do not need "pro" features.
if the above rumor is true, then you could either use a usb/ethernet adapter or get the 17"
those dongles suck and look ugly. no reason they can't leave an ethernet plug on it. i think most pro users wouldn't mind better battery life, a 'real' processor and some basic ports rather than super thin and weak.
Which is going to give substantially less throughput than a real gigabit ethernet port.
How about a Thunderbolt dongle?
Apple::
"With PCI Express technology, you can use existing USB and FireWire peripherals ? even connect to Gigabit Ethernet and Fibre Channel networks ? using simple adapters."
those dongles suck and look ugly. no reason they can't leave an ethernet plug on it. i think most pro users wouldn't mind better battery life, a 'real' processor and some basic ports rather than super thin and weak.
But what if you could accomplish all the thinnest of the MBA without sacrificing performance? I say, release the MBAP already and chuck out all the bulky and antiquated ports. Let people who need them deal with USB 3/TB dongles.
I'm not. My line of work requires transfer of information between various departments, auditors and 3rd party vendors. We have email caps, so we can't go that way. We don't give out USB drives either. We tried FTP, but some vendors are clueless.
ghostface, I feel your pain regarding vendors, but respectfully the hassle of getting them up to speed or switching vendors pales in comparison to the time you spend writing and labeling media.
It was borderline in maybe 2010 but in 2012 GoogleDocs and Dropbox have solved the issue of the person on the other end not understanding how to ftp. Seriously, any vendor who doesn't let you exchange a few gigs of files online every week, however you do it, is probably not up to speed on the rest of their scene either. How do you get the media to them, anyway? Messenger? Fedex? It adds up to much more than a little investment in an online privately shared encrypted folder setup, and it's easier to deal with than it might sound.
Usually you change to the lowest common denominator for math class but in the real world it can oft be easier if all measurements have the same denominator.
Ok but just an FYI if you go to a real world Home Depot to buy a 6/16" drill bit, you will not find one.
USB 3.0 is a given for the new models due to it being already integrated on Ivy Bridge.
As for it diminishing any reason to go to Thunderbolt, 3rd party manufacturers have already seen to that. Thunderbolt will find a niche in high-end video editing businesses and such like but it was DOA for the consumer mass market.
I'll add that Thunderbot will find a niche as a single-connection docking and monitor port for desktop use - just as Apple has said. One can only assume (yes, always dangerous) that the limited number of options to do this so far will increase and become less expensive. Of course you have Apple's new monitor which has gigabit ethernet, USB, and Firewire. Plug an external optical drive into this and you have about everything you need. Also, most people don't use all that hardware when traveling so why lug it around? Just leave it on your desk to plug in with one cable when you return.
To me that sounds like a convoluted line up. A MBA with the performance of a MBP sounds to me like it should be marketed as a MBP.
Not necessarily. To me, the difference is features. Pro has ODD, hard disk with lots of storage, card slot (on some of them), full size keyboard and screen, and a full array of ports. MBA has a much more limited feature set.
Now, to be fair, I don't push my computer that hard, so I may be biased, but even if you could have an 11" Air with the same performance as a 17" MBP, I don't think the Air would be a pro machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt
That is so assinine.
He was clearly using the scale to show that it is indeed 1/16th of an inch bigger. Reducing the fraction just convolutes this measurement.
Sometimes this forum feels like highschool.
On a good day. Most days it's more like junior high or grade school.
I hope the next MBPs come with HiDPI and IPS displays... but I'll take either one. I expect Apple to focus heavily on Macs this year. I think we're going to be overwhelmed with the Mac updates this year. I also wouldn't be surprised if they expand their line up. At this point they need more products, not less.
I despise having 1/2 the battery life that could be gained from the ODD's space. I despise the lack of ports on the right side of my MBP.
There are a few things I'd like to see from Apple on a display level, but I don't know their feasibility at a manufacturing level within Apple's cost parameters. IPS has obviously gotten a lot cheaper. If they placed a large enough order, I suppose it's possible. The cost breakdown is definitely a bit different with a laptop though, especially with relative cpu costs. It wouldn't surprise me immensely to see them expand their line a bit, but that goes against the general forum attitude until they do such a thing. It's weird because most of the arguments seem to be in favor of whatever Apple is doing at that second.
Looking at the actual hardware that is available, I think it would be good if they maintained some differentiation between their machines. Heat and fan noise seem to be common points of user stress, so better heat dissipation in their power models would be excellent.
Comments
After getting my grubby little hands on a 17" MacBook pro for a few days I have to agree. Lugging that big beast around would get old rather quickly. Even if it gets the air treatment that would still be to big to take everywhere. IMHO.
Really? I've been using my 17" MBP since 2006 and haven't found it to be too much to 'lug around'. Sure, it's a big computer, but unless you're incredibly weak, a 6 pound computer instead of a 3 pound computer shouldn't make THAT much of a difference.
Would I like it to be lighter? Sure. But I wouldn't claim that it's not usable because of the size.
In CPU performance? In GPU performance? In drive performance? The only one that is likely is in drive performance because a 7200 RPM HDD is slow.
I think the point is that in terms of usability and responsiveness, the Air is faster than a MBP for the average user. Again, keep in mind that the quote that started this thread was that a 15" MBA would kill of the Pro FOR THE AVERAGE USER. The average non-pro user isn't doing anything that requires massive CPU or GPU performance, so most people would see a 15" Air with SSD as being at least equal to a conventional 15" Pro with HDD.
But if they were to meld the air design into a 15" chassis, remove the optical drive and use all the additional space to build in the required logic boards etc to include Ethernet & additional FireWire/TB ports I reckon they'd be on to a winner.
A best of breed if you will.
To me that sounds like a convoluted line up. A MBA with the performance of a MBP sounds to me like it should be marketed as a MBP.
Sure. I am not convinced I am right
Having said that, Perhaps having two form factors for every laptop makes sense from a profit pov. I imagine not, but I stand to be corrected.
Because of their push for Thunderbolt so heavily. Including USB 3.0 at the same time would do nothing but diminish any reason to go to Thunderbolt. At least in the case of having USB 2.0 and Thunderbolt you have enough differentiation. USB 3 and Thunderbolt, not as much. Sure, theoretical peak is only half of thunderbolt, but that's substantially less difference than than the 20 times slower USB 2.0. And honestly you are probably not going to ever saturate USB 3.0 completely very often anyway.
USB 3.0 is a given for the new models due to it being already integrated on Ivy Bridge.
As for it diminishing any reason to go to Thunderbolt, 3rd party manufacturers have already seen to that. Thunderbolt will find a niche in high-end video editing businesses and such like but it was DOA for the consumer mass market.
I have been tempted to do this for a long time with my MB (Alu but pre pro by about a week!), but as my machine is getting long in the tooth anyway I am not sure it is worth it.
Same here. I would consider it (I almost never use the OD on my Pro), but the computer's well over 5 years old and I just don't see the point.
I did try a hybrid hard disk (HDD/SSD combination) a couple of years ago and must say that I really didn't see that much difference. While people rave about the hybrids, I didn't notice much improvement.
Read the article.
The headline is very misleading.
The quote is referring to the 15" pro being "killed" in the consumer market IE average consumers buying the pro because of its screen size but do not need "pro" features.
I want a Macbook Pro with a Retina Display!
Me too. MacBook Air Pro (the Pro being the retina display models).
if the above rumor is true, then you could either use a usb/ethernet adapter or get the 17"
those dongles suck and look ugly. no reason they can't leave an ethernet plug on it. i think most pro users wouldn't mind better battery life, a 'real' processor and some basic ports rather than super thin and weak.
I always thought the first Dell Adamo was smart looking.
Obviously, not too many other people thought that? Or, was it very popular, and I somehow missed hearing about it?
Obviously, not too many other people thought that? Or, was it very popular, and I somehow missed hearing about it?
Smart looking, but it had plenty of issues that made it less desirable than the MBA.
Which is going to give substantially less throughput than a real gigabit ethernet port.
How about a Thunderbolt dongle?
Apple::
"With PCI Express technology, you can use existing USB and FireWire peripherals ? even connect to Gigabit Ethernet and Fibre Channel networks ? using simple adapters."
http://www.apple.com/thunderbolt/
So in fact, there is nothing inaccurate about my measurements at all.
My physics prof. used to say without the margin of error included, the measurement is meaningless. I'd say you measurement is meaningless!
those dongles suck and look ugly. no reason they can't leave an ethernet plug on it. i think most pro users wouldn't mind better battery life, a 'real' processor and some basic ports rather than super thin and weak.
But what if you could accomplish all the thinnest of the MBA without sacrificing performance? I say, release the MBAP already and chuck out all the bulky and antiquated ports. Let people who need them deal with USB 3/TB dongles.
Sorry, in the States we usually call 6/16" three eighths. The Imperial units of measure suck anyway and that is just one example of why.
That is so assinine.
He was clearly using the scale to show that it is indeed 1/16th of an inch bigger. Reducing the fraction just convolutes this measurement.
Sometimes this forum feels like highschool.
And then I think they will offer different screen resolutions just like in the MBPs today
For those in need of the ODD, they will keep the MBP lineup for a while
I'm not. My line of work requires transfer of information between various departments, auditors and 3rd party vendors. We have email caps, so we can't go that way. We don't give out USB drives either. We tried FTP, but some vendors are clueless.
ghostface, I feel your pain regarding vendors, but respectfully the hassle of getting them up to speed or switching vendors pales in comparison to the time you spend writing and labeling media.
It was borderline in maybe 2010 but in 2012 GoogleDocs and Dropbox have solved the issue of the person on the other end not understanding how to ftp. Seriously, any vendor who doesn't let you exchange a few gigs of files online every week, however you do it, is probably not up to speed on the rest of their scene either. How do you get the media to them, anyway? Messenger? Fedex? It adds up to much more than a little investment in an online privately shared encrypted folder setup, and it's easier to deal with than it might sound.
Usually you change to the lowest common denominator for math class but in the real world it can oft be easier if all measurements have the same denominator.
Ok but just an FYI if you go to a real world Home Depot to buy a 6/16" drill bit, you will not find one.
USB 3.0 is a given for the new models due to it being already integrated on Ivy Bridge.
As for it diminishing any reason to go to Thunderbolt, 3rd party manufacturers have already seen to that. Thunderbolt will find a niche in high-end video editing businesses and such like but it was DOA for the consumer mass market.
I'll add that Thunderbot will find a niche as a single-connection docking and monitor port for desktop use - just as Apple has said. One can only assume (yes, always dangerous) that the limited number of options to do this so far will increase and become less expensive. Of course you have Apple's new monitor which has gigabit ethernet, USB, and Firewire. Plug an external optical drive into this and you have about everything you need. Also, most people don't use all that hardware when traveling so why lug it around? Just leave it on your desk to plug in with one cable when you return.
To me that sounds like a convoluted line up. A MBA with the performance of a MBP sounds to me like it should be marketed as a MBP.
Not necessarily. To me, the difference is features. Pro has ODD, hard disk with lots of storage, card slot (on some of them), full size keyboard and screen, and a full array of ports. MBA has a much more limited feature set.
Now, to be fair, I don't push my computer that hard, so I may be biased, but even if you could have an 11" Air with the same performance as a 17" MBP, I don't think the Air would be a pro machine.
That is so assinine.
He was clearly using the scale to show that it is indeed 1/16th of an inch bigger. Reducing the fraction just convolutes this measurement.
Sometimes this forum feels like highschool.
On a good day. Most days it's more like junior high or grade school.
I hope the next MBPs come with HiDPI and IPS displays... but I'll take either one. I expect Apple to focus heavily on Macs this year. I think we're going to be overwhelmed with the Mac updates this year. I also wouldn't be surprised if they expand their line up. At this point they need more products, not less.
I despise having 1/2 the battery life that could be gained from the ODD's space. I despise the lack of ports on the right side of my MBP.
There are a few things I'd like to see from Apple on a display level, but I don't know their feasibility at a manufacturing level within Apple's cost parameters. IPS has obviously gotten a lot cheaper. If they placed a large enough order, I suppose it's possible. The cost breakdown is definitely a bit different with a laptop though, especially with relative cpu costs. It wouldn't surprise me immensely to see them expand their line a bit, but that goes against the general forum attitude until they do such a thing. It's weird because most of the arguments seem to be in favor of whatever Apple is doing at that second.
Looking at the actual hardware that is available, I think it would be good if they maintained some differentiation between their machines. Heat and fan noise seem to be common points of user stress, so better heat dissipation in their power models would be excellent.