The Biggest Threat to Obama's Health Care "Reform" - Reality

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  • tontontonton Posts: 14,064member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post


    Single-payer healthcare is just wonderful as long as you are relatively healthy.



    Those with serious health issues face rationed care. That means long wait times and yes, even denial of care.



    Here is one such case. And there are many more.



    Thankfully this poor woman had the means to get the care she needed in the States.



    For every one case of someone who was hindered by a government health care system, there are a hundred cases of people who were helped by it.
  • frank777frank777 Posts: 5,714member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    Canada does not have a private option.



    Yes, because whenever conservatives propose one, we are accused by the left of being heartless, greedy corporate profiteers eager to put families through US-style bankruptcy just for medical care.
  • tontontonton Posts: 14,064member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


    Yes, because whenever conservatives propose one, we are accused by the left of being heartless, greedy corporate profiteers eager to put families through US-style bankruptcy just for medical care.



    And the left in the US aren't accused of equally irrational platitudes when a public option is discussed?



    It's clear we need a balanced system for best results. Not one way or another, but both.



    It's just like socialism vs. capitalism. We need both. Supply-side vs. demand side. We need both.



    Let's stop being so polarized and find the balance.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    It's clear we need a balanced system for best results. Not one way or another, but both.



    That isn't clear at all.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    It's just like socialism vs. capitalism. We need both.



  • tontontonton Posts: 14,064member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post






    Are you incapable of understanding how this works? Try Europe. There are billionaires who own yachts and there is universal health care and free university education. Who'da thunk it?
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    Are you incapable of understanding how this works?



    No. Are you?





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    Try Europe. There are billionaires who own yachts and there is universal health care and free university education. Who'da thunk it?



    There is no free education (or healthcare) in Europe...or anywhere. That appears to be something you are incapable of understanding.
  • jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    For every one case of someone who was hindered by a government health care system, there are a hundred cases of people who were helped by it.



    And for every one case of someone who was hindered by a health insurance provider, there are hundreds of cases of people who were helped by it.



    A single-payer system is no better than what we have now. In reality, it will be much worse.
  • sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,331member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    Canada does not have a private option.



    That's not surprising. Both a "public option" and Obamacare will destroy private insurance. The writing is already on the wall. When the mandate on pre-existing conditions takes hold, that's the end for private insurance. One can refuse to buy health insurance, pay a $700 fine, and then go buy insurance after he gets, say, brain cancer. Insurance companies won't be able to deny these people, and they will get out of the business.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    That's not surprising. Both a "public option" and Obamacare will destroy private insurance. The writing is already on the wall. When the mandate on pre-existing conditions takes hold, that's the end for private insurance. One can refuse to buy health insurance, pay a $700 fine, and then go buy insurance after he gets, say, brain cancer. Insurance companies won't be able to deny these people, and they will get out of the business.



    Don't you think that's the whole plan?
  • tontontonton Posts: 14,064member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    Don't you think that's the whole plan?



    Except that that hasn't happened anywhere it's been implemented. But just keep running with the FUD you've been fed by those who stand to profit less if changes are made. You guys are so easily manipulated it's sad.
  • tontontonton Posts: 14,064member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    That's not surprising. Both a "public option" and Obamacare will destroy private insurance. The writing is already on the wall. When the mandate on pre-existing conditions takes hold, that's the end for private insurance. One can refuse to buy health insurance, pay a $700 fine, and then go buy insurance after he gets, say, brain cancer. Insurance companies won't be able to deny these people, and they will get out of the business.



    I don't believe in an insurance mandate. Public option, and let the people who want a private ward, faster follow-ups and better choices opt in for the insurance option and private care. Win win win.
  • floorjackfloorjack Posts: 2,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    CBO doubles estimate of Obamacare's cost. The Unaffordable Care Act will now cost 1.76 TRILLION over 10 years.



    Please, someone tell me how we're just dealing with George Bush's mess and credit card bill.



    Well see because the 1% wall street evil greed something we're not going to stand for it inherited afghanistan or like um Goldman Sachs (liberal dog whistle for evil jews) real estate bailout obstructionist republicans which are evil oil production is up green economy.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    You guys are so easily manipulated it's sad.



    Based on the shit you toss out here I don't think you're in any position to be spouting off about who's easily manipulated.



  • tontontonton Posts: 14,064member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    Based on the shit you toss out here I don't think you're in any position to be spouting off about who's easily manipulated.







    Oh? Really? What is the source of my 'shit'? The media? The left wing blogosphere?



    No. How about independent reasoning? Which you guys who toss out ridiculous shit about the insurance industry failing don't seem to have much of.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    Oh? Really? What is the source of my 'shit'?



    Don't know for sure. But you sure seem to be certain that I am simply being manipulated by the insurance lobby and oil lobby. :roll eyes:





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    How about independent reasoning?



    What about it? What does it matter if it's faulty?





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    Which you guys who toss out ridiculous shit about the insurance industry failing don't seem to have much of.



    Look, just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we're not doing any or don't have much reasoning. We are just reasoning things out differently and coming to different conclusions.



    You don't even see how arrogant you are here.



    When someone arrives at a different conclusion than you do...that is in direct opposition to for thoughts is an ignorant, stupid, unreasoning, easily manipulated simpleton shilling for whatever special interest you think is controlling them.



  • brbr Posts: 8,313member
    Just are you "reason" differently when it comes to evolution. Bleh.
  • tontontonton Posts: 14,064member
    It helps to make assumptions when MJ and Jazzy recite word for word the Libertarian manifesto with a Mormon twist, without deviating an inch.



    Likewise for SDW and the Republicans.



    There's no one you can accuse me of parroting. I disagree with Huffpo half the time, and I don't watch Jon Stewart, and I don't read the 'Liberal newspapers' or watch 'Liberal television news'.



    By far the closest you can get to my point of view is the PDA, which I have joined and I do follow and support, but I've only known about them for half a year or so. And I think Borowitz says some poignant things.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    It helps to make assumptions when MJ and Jazzy recite word for word the Libertarian manifesto with a Mormon twist, without deviating an inch.



    This is your form of "reasoning?"





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    There's no one you can accuse me of parroting. I disagree with Huffpo half the time, and I don't watch Jon Stewart, and I don't read the 'Liberal newspapers' or watch 'Liberal television news'.



    Well good for you. I use my own reasoning to arrive at my own conclusions too (and I'm not Mormon and nor home-schooled as you previously assumed I was...though I am something of an autodidact on some subjects.) As I said before just because my reasoning is different from yours or I arrive at different conclusions doesn't mean I'm not using any or that I'm thoughtlessly parroting off some "manifesto" or talking points of someone else you disagree with. It is profoundly arrogant for you to assume this.



  • jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    It helps to make assumptions when MJ and Jazzy recite word for word the Libertarian manifesto with a Mormon twist, without deviating an inch.



    Please. All you know is that I am a libertarian and a Mormon. Just about everything else you "know" about me is based on assumptions.
  • tontontonton Posts: 14,064member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post


    Please. All you know is that I am a libertarian and a Mormon. Just about everything else you "know" about me is based on assumptions.



    I wasn't commenting on who you are. I was commenting on exactly what you say on these boards. Which is exactly toeing the line. You haven't shown the capability to think for yourself here. I'm waiting for it.
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