Apple's slimmer 13- and 15-inch MacBook Pros in production - report

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  • conrailconrail Posts: 489member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Is there some sort of dick measuring that goes along with saying you're adapter is Thunderbolt?



    No, that would be buying a mac in the first place, it seems.



    I can understand arguments for getting rid of the optical drive. Is there some pressing reason to get rid of ethernet? Cost? Weight? Performance?
  • bluevoidbluevoid Posts: 72member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Conrail View Post


    Is there some pressing reason to get rid of ethernet? Cost? Weight? Performance?



    Its size gives the other ports an inferiority complex, hindering their performance.
  • elderlocelderloc Posts: 146member
    No idea what they will do with the next round, I just hope they have a 17". I travel all the timedespite the size / weight I really like to have the screen for doing my Visio drawings, watching movies, and gaming all though I don't game much. Over all I see the 17 as a desktop replacement which I'm fine with. Where as i only use my DVD burner a few times a year mostly to burn backups in the middle east, it would be nice to have a full function laptop at least one more gen while TB matures a little. Since I have a Seagate Goflex for backups I can get TB now, but I just can't see myself taking a 27" cinema on the road with me, but they do have carrying cases, but man would it suck.
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    It's true because it's true. Just because the notebook cost more it means that adapters should be excessive so long as they are less than the cost of the device? What sense does that make?



    And what sense does it make to buy 15x as much for the same result? Is there some sort of dick measuring that goes along with saying you're adapter is Thunderbolt?



    So? Wizard claimed it was not viable. That's clearly wrong. Expensive != not viable.



    You then agreed, but added the caveat that it's not financially viable.



    First, how the heck do you know that when prices for TB/Ethernet adapters have not been provided?



    Second, even if it's 5-10 times the cost of a USB/Ethernet adapter, it's ridiculous to say that a $100-200 device makes a $2,000 to $3,000 computer "not financially viable".



    As for the rest, you're free to use the $20 USB adapter. Some people complain that it's not fast enough, so my point was that if performance is an issue, you can still use a TB adapter. Anyone who is doing work of a nature that the USB/Ethernet adapter is too slow is probably not going to find $100 for a TB adapter to be a problem.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    First, how the heck do you know that when prices for TB/Ethernet adapters have not been provided?



    I know because I have a modicum of understanding of humanity and business. If I give you two options, one a Thunderbolt ethernet adapter that costs $100 and one that costs $10 with both achieving the same speed the only reasonable choice is to use the cheaper option. I don't even have to mention that if you get the Thunderbolt solution you won't be able to hook up a DisplayPort display because you only have the one port. and that with the USB option you have multiple ports to choose from.



    Quote:

    Second, even if it's 5-10 times the cost of a USB/Ethernet adapter, it's ridiculous to say that a $100-200 device makes a $2,000 to $3,000 computer "not financially viable".



    So if you have a $50k car it's acceptable to you that floor mates cost $2,500 simply because they are less than the car? That logic is fucking ridiculous!
  • bluevoidbluevoid Posts: 72member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    I don't even have to mention that if you get the Thunderbolt solution you won't be able to hook up a DisplayPort display because you only have the one port.



    Why assume the new machines will only have one Thunderbolt port? IMO there should be two, minimum, and that's yet another way to differentiate them from the Airs.



    Still, a Thunderbolt to Ethernet adapter is overkill. A USB3 adapter should be plenty fast with minimal CPU overhead during data transfer.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bluevoid View Post


    Why assume the new machines will only have one Thunderbolt port? IMO there should be two, minimum, and that's yet another way to differentiate them from the Airs.



    I'd like that to happen, with a TB port on each side, but having too video out ports of the same type on a notebook is not common. Sure, TB is a lot more than video out but the question is could you have two external displays being used off two different TB ports that aren't directly daisy chained or are internally daisy chained with the second one having a bypass so it can be used before the primary? And what about Apple advertising 2xTB but having the aggregate of their performance only being 2x10 Gb/s? That sounds a bit complicated to me so I'm expecting only one TB port.
  • wizard69wizard69 Posts: 11,714member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bluevoid View Post


    Aluminum is quite strong; comparing it to the foil in your kitchen drawer is meaningless.



    I wasn't talking about aluminum foil in the kitchen, rather I was talking about sheat metal that is used in industry. The point remains, make a large commuter too thin and you end up with structural problems. That is flexing and bending.

    Quote:

    You had me at "internal ribbing."



    I suspect it is easy to have you, but there was no humor intended here. In fact Apple could go one step further and use honeycomb structures like the aircraft industry uses. The point is they need to address the structural issue in some manner.
  • wizard69wizard69 Posts: 11,714member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    So? Wizard claimed it was not viable. That's clearly wrong. Expensive != not viable.



    I'm not sure what you problem is here. You have been told again and again that external adapters are not viable, yet each time you come back with ridiculous statements like this. Since you can't digest what is being written here I will have to assume you will never get it.

    Quote:

    You then agreed, but added the caveat that it's not financially viable.



    Cost has little to do with it. Again go back and read what has been repeated many times in these forums, the reason is already out there.

    Quote:

    First, how the heck do you know that when prices for TB/Ethernet adapters have not been provided?



    Well let's start with the $50 cable.

    Quote:

    Second, even if it's 5-10 times the cost of a USB/Ethernet adapter, it's ridiculous to say that a $100-200 device makes a $2,000 to $3,000 computer "not financially viable".



    It is a big issue if it is additional hardware you have never had to purchase before. But that isn't what makes adapter not viable. Again learn to read for content.

    Quote:

    As for the rest, you're free to use the $20 USB adapter. Some people complain that it's not fast enough, so my point was that if performance is an issue, you can still use a TB adapter. Anyone who is doing work of a nature that the USB/Ethernet adapter is too slow is probably not going to find $100 for a TB adapter to be a problem.



    And yet you still don't get it, speed and cost have little to do with external adapters not being viable.
  • bluevoidbluevoid Posts: 72member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    That sounds a bit complicated to me so I'm expecting only one TB port.



    I'll let Apple worry about the edge cases, but from a practical standpoint it seems odd to push a next-generation interconnect with only a single port; one which will often be occupied with a display.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Blah blah blah



    Again, it's not a problem. I'm pretty sure Apple has that whole "structural engineering" thing under control, thanks.
  • gadgetcanadagadgetcanada Posts: 423member
    Put the ethernet port on the power brick and run power and ethernet over a single thunderbolt cable to the MacBook with a magsafe connector. One cord that's it! Have another thunderbolt port on the power brick to connect one or more CinemaDisplays. That way you come home to your workstation with your MacBook, hook up the magsafe connector and that's it. You have power, ethernet and connection to the CinemaDisplays.
  • haggarhaggar Posts: 1,568member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    I don't see that happening at all since having your Mac's display be a touchscreen is far from ideal.



    Can you explain why?



    Some people seem to think that if a Mac gains a touchscreen, their keyboards and mice will suddenly stop working. A touchscreen is fine as a supplemental input device. In many cases, it would be faster to click a button by touching the screen than using a mouse or trackpad. And if Mac OS gains built in support for multitouch screens, then it will be easier for developers and IT vendors to implement things like kiosks with large touch displays. Currently, these types of kiosks typically run on Windows PCs because of better driver support for those displays. These manufacturers are unlikely to spend any time on Mac drivers for their touch displays. And yes, you can hook up an iPad to a big screen TV, but the big screen will not have touch capability.
  • bluevoidbluevoid Posts: 72member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Haggar View Post


    And if Mac OS gains built in support for multitouch screens, then it will be easier for developers and IT vendors to implement things like kiosks with large touch displays.



    Let us hope that never happens. The day Apple tries to shoehorn touch support into OS X is the day they've jumped the shark, as MS already has with Windows 8.
  • hmmhmm Posts: 3,364member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    I see you have the same problem with auto correct that I have! 😉😉😁😁



    In any event the latest release of Mac OS has pretty much transitioned to resolution independence. I'm fairly certain the next update will release that functionality for the new laptops. The big question is does Apple go for a 2X increase in resolution or do they go with a multiplier like 1.5X. It is an interesting question because of the different trade offs.



    I only recall support for 2x rather than it being truly resolution independent.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Grab a heat of aluminum and you will understand. My point is Apple can't go too thin on the 15" & 17" models without real concerns about structural strength. At least this is the case if the stick with Aluminum. So maybe the Ethernet connector isn't really the limiting factor.



    I also suspect that you are right about taper. The taper could be far more dramatic than what we see in the AIRs. If they stick with milled Aluminum we could see more Agressive internal ribbing for increased strength. This is possibly the most interesting part about CNC process, they can basically machine a laptop to any orientation or design they want.



    CNC is pretty awesome. I've read complaints about buckling and flex issues from people who drag their macbook pros around quite a lot (it's a laptop, it should be portable). I haven't seen them personally.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bluevoid View Post


    I'll let Apple worry about the edge cases, but from a practical standpoint it seems odd to push a next-generation interconnect with only a single port; one which will often be occupied with a display.







    Again, it's not a problem. I'm pretty sure Apple has that whole "structural engineering" thing under control, thanks.



    Apple makes design choices. It doesn't mean everyone must automatically agree with their judgement. I find the TB thing a bit awkward because people bring up things like adapters, and even if the dongle solution wasn't flawed, it's quite easy to tie up a single port. The TB chips used in the macbook pros are like that in the imac, meaning they should support two ports unlike the Air which uses a lighter chip.
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    I'm not sure what you problem is here. You have been told again and again that external adapters are not viable, yet each time you come back with ridiculous statements like this. Since you can't digest what is being written here I will have to assume you will never get it.



    Cost has little to do with it. Again go back and read what has been repeated many times in these forums, the reason is already out there.



    Well let's start with the $50 cable.



    It is a big issue if it is additional hardware you have never had to purchase before. But that isn't what makes adapter not viable. Again learn to read for content.





    And yet you still don't get it, speed and cost have little to do with external adapters not being viable.



    I'm not sure what language you think you're using. In this context, 'viable' means 'practicable, capable of working'. Clearly an external Ethernet adapter is capable of working. So please explain once again why it won't work - and why anyone would sell a product that doesn't work?



    Clearly, it's viable. The fact that you don't like it doesn't mane it non-viable, either.
  • mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    What I would like to see happen with Apple's new move to a yearly OS X release is to make their Mac OS a free update. This will not only be a value add to each Mac purchase but allow Apple to lower support costs by having a lot more users on the same OS. Over all I would expect this move to increase Mac adoption which in turn increases their total profit.



    At the rate Apple is adopting new technologies they need to update the OS once a year but on the other hand this accelerated pace makes new computers obsolete way too early. The build quality of Apple products should last 6+ years but the compatibility only around 3.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nicroma View Post


    Why not slim down the plastic on the the RJ45 connector and not lose Ethernet? An adapter of that sort would be much cheaper than an adapter made to work through Thunderbolt.



    I don't know why no one has ever made a small ethernet cable port. They did it with scsi, firewire, usb, audio, AC power etc.
  • TEAMSWITCHERTEAMSWITCHER Posts: 61member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tmallon View Post


    We still need Ethernet...Apple please keep the Ethernet port till at least 75% don't have a use for it



    Don't worry, every Mac Book Pro will probably get an ethernet port. Only the ultra-low-voltage Core processors from Intel can fit in the thermal envelop of a diminutive "Air" thin case. The new MacBook Pros will be thicker than the Air, especially near the back, to accommodate a larger heat-sink for the regular-low-voltage Intel Core processor, and (on the 15") a dedicated GPU. There will be plenty of thickness to have that critical ethernet port.
  • myapplelovemyapplelove Posts: 1,515member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    I'm not sure what you problem is here. You have been told again and again that external adapters are not viable, yet each time you come back with ridiculous statements like this. Since you can't digest what is being written here I will have to assume you will never get it.



    Cost has little to do with it. Again go back and read what has been repeated many times in these forums, the reason is already out there.



    Well let's start with the $50 cable.



    It is a big issue if it is additional hardware you have never had to purchase before. But that isn't what makes adapter not viable. Again learn to read for content.





    And yet you still don't get it, speed and cost have little to do with external adapters not being viable.



    You are trying to make him get it it but he never will because he's the same guy who replied to you so are you missing a serial port, floppies and scsi from the mac pro in another thread. How can he get it? I feel sad that you are wasting your time here, it's the nature of the medium that compels us to waste our time in such pointless arguments with strangers unfortunately, if you were talking face to face with him I am sure you d have said ah forget about a long time a go...
  • myapplelovemyapplelove Posts: 1,515member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmm View Post


    I only recall support for 2x rather than it being truly resolution independent.

    .



    This is correct, they ve only opted for pixel doubling a la iOS to reduce complexity of development. That still leaves me wondering, if the new Mbps have much higher resolution panels and to be able to afford 2x without sacrificing that much screen real estate, that would still mean that almost all of the os font will still not allow the user to set a size for them they prefer. Which in turn makes me wonder how hard is it to just allow the user to just set the font size for such miniscule fonts as get info panel fonts, safari bookmarks, and settings fonts? It shouldn't be hard at all, it shouldnt be hard to allow me to choose at least a few set increments of fonts for the safari address bar or bookmarks. And who in all honesty here who's over forty would claim that they can easily read safari's address bar across apple's mac line up and wouldn't welcome an element of scalability to the fonts used therein?



    I am also afraid that we might see 16:9 even in the 15" model which would be a damn shame IMO.
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    You are trying to make him get it it but he never will because he's the same guy who replied to you so are you missing a serial port, floppies and scsi from the mac pro in another thread. How can he get it? I feel sad that you are wasting your time here, it's the nature of the medium that compels us to waste our time in such pointless arguments with strangers unfortunately, if you were talking face to face with him I am sure you d have said ah forget about a long time a go...



    So you're another one who doesn't understand the meaning of the word 'viable'?



    Pray tell, what is it that makes Ethernet on a Thunderbolt/Ethernet adapter not viable?
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