It's really becoming very hard to see how Windows Phone ever gets anywhere.
I'm starting to wonder if all the tech reviewers who fawn over the Metro interface are just totally out of touch with mainstream consumers. Maybe mainstream consumers look at a bunch of monochromatic boxes with tons of text and feel simultaneously bored and overloaded with information. Maybe consumers really just prefer the simple yet colorful grid of icons approach that Apple has taken and Samsung has aped.
If that's true -- if the failure of WP7 (and the Zune before it) is as much about consumer dislike of the critically acclaimed Metro interface as about first mover advantages and all the rest -- then that also suggests Windows 8 tablets could be a big flop.
Outside of games and game-boxes, MS has lousy, boring, uninspired mindshare. They have ZERO cachet. They're slow, and they don't understand design or marketing.
All they do is REACT, REACT, and then REACT some more.
Hence, the Rise of Apple, and the slow slide of MS into irrelevance. This aint 1995.
Well, to be fair to MS, Metro is pretty original and it's been very well received by the tech punditry (even pro-Apple pundits like Jon Gruber).
But I wonder if the pundits are just out of touch. Maybe MS has succeeded in coming up with an original design that appeals to design snobs but that does not also appeal to a mass market. The design snobs have historically liked Apple products better than MS/PC products, but the design snobs have also had plenty of criticisms of Apple products. But it strikes me that the things the design snobs criticize Apple for are the types of things that ordinary consumers either (1) really like or (2) are completely indifferent to. One example is the dock on the Mac -- consumers like it, design snobs hate it. Another great example is UI "chrome" in apps like Address Book. A more recent example is the anthropomorphic aspects of Siri.
With Metro, it seems that MS might have gone too far towards the design snobs. They've created this super clean, highly functional, techno-elite UI that crams tons of info into the smallest possible space. Geeks find that highly appealing. But maybe ordinary folks find it cold, boring, and prone to information overload.
I vote this as the absolute worst use of color on a graph. Pick colors that are different enough for each so that you can see what you are looking at. Jeesh!
Thanks to Samsung's technology and manufacturing innovation, and Apple's marketing pull....
Yeah, that must be it. That explains why Apple is getting 75% of the industry's profits and none of the competitors' products come even close to Apple's in customer satisfaction.
I wouldn't exactly say that. Sony, Motorola/Google and Nokia/Microsoft are all very large companies. It's hard to believe that they are not going to put up a fight with so much money at stake. They're all churning out some very good phones at the moment and they've all started to adopt an Apple-like "eco system" approach to their phones and content. I simply don't believe that Apple will be able to hang on to 75% of the profits forever.
The problem here is that they don't own their own top to bottom solution. This makes integration and a uniform customer experience very difficult to achieve. Apple has done this for a long time and people (i.e. consumers) are now used to this. Anything less is not seen by most people as a viable option. This is the problem other companies have. There are many more people that don't care about what is in their phones and who makes the phones than those that just want something that is simple to use and works for them. I hate to break this to those who comment here but we are in the extreme minority of those that really buy product. This is why Apple can still sell with high margins and others cannot. Their stuff is simple and does what people want. Ask any non-tech person (most of the world) about this.
The question is, where would the money come from? They have declining desktop OS revenues, declining Office application revenues and it would be hard to see the justification when they need to be more creative on all product lines just to stand still!!
Perhaps from the >$20B annual profit they seem to be managing.
And their revenue overall is not declining:
2009: $58B
2010: $62B
2011: $69B
Their profit has also increased over this time frame. (source: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=MSFT&annual). A 18% revenue increase over two years (when the world economy is still not very strong) is nothing to scoff at.
So, don't count them out just yet. They do not have a clear strategy, but a pretty huge war chest and a steady revenue (and profit) stream which gives them a lot of financial flexibility (i.e, they can spend like crazy to try and get in the market).
Now, it is also not at all clear that they will come up with a strategy in the mobile space, but they are far from dead. And even if they don't break into mobile, there is still the very lucrative desktop and server market which will bring in money for quite a while.
Yeah, that must be it. That explains why Apple is getting 75% of the industry's profits and none of the competitors' products come even close to Apple's in customer satisfaction.
Yep. Probably all about marketing.
Of course, it is.. Most engineers behind innovation, eg, Woz, don't walk away with millions. It's usually sales / marketing folks who get the vast majority of the cake.
I vote this as the absolute worst use of color on a graph. Pick colors that are different enough for each so that you can see what you are looking at. Jeesh!
Yep. But it's not an AI chart, they just reprinted.
Well, to be fair to MS, Metro is pretty original and it's been very well received by the tech punditry (even pro-Apple pundits like Jon Gruber).
But I wonder if the pundits are just out of touch. Maybe MS has succeeded in coming up with an original design that appeals to design snobs but that does not also appeal to a mass market. The design snobs have historically liked Apple products better than MS/PC products, but the design snobs have also had plenty of criticisms of Apple products. But it strikes me that the things the design snobs criticize Apple for are the types of things that ordinary consumers either (1) really like or (2) are completely indifferent to. One example is the dock on the Mac -- consumers like it, design snobs hate it. Another great example is UI "chrome" in apps like Address Book. A more recent example is the anthropomorphic aspects of Siri.
With Metro, it seems that MS might have gone too far towards the design snobs. They've created this super clean, highly functional, techno-elite UI that crams tons of info into the smallest possible space. Geeks find that highly appealing. But maybe ordinary folks find it cold, boring, and prone to information overload.
When will this magic happen?
The "new" metro has been out well over a year it's market share has dawdled to almost nowhere, in spite of all the glowing reviews and fairly obvious astroturfing all over the web..
They should rename it to "gonna" as in, gonna do this and gonna do that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid
Doesn't sound like much compared to Apple's margins.
But Samsung is crushing all other Android hardware partners. Especially LG.
2012 will be the year that the weaker Android hardware partners are weeded out.
They'll go running to Microsoft, who will give them the cold shoulder because Nokia is already their hardware b*tch.
The Chinese are coming, Huawei and ZTE.
They have been quite successful at the bottom of the market, building some brand recognition outside of the network branded handsets they have been concentrating on so far.
They are well funded with money from installing network equipment for phone companies upgrading all over the world.
Watch as they undercut Samsung and beat them at their own game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Stop it! You're making Nokia cry!
They sacked another thousand workers in Finland today.
Firstly, its new. REALLY freaking new. as in its "not a bunch of square icons to drag around like every other device" new.
Secondly, why don't Apple and Google allow multitasking windows side by side? Tablets are used a lot in the workplace and having two programs side by side is VERY useful in work situations.
Thirdly, apps. Sure, apple and google have big app stores with about 450,000 apps each but windows has millions. Remember, this will be a windows release, not windows phone. every windows app will work. yes, even the custom ones at your job will work cause its windows.
Fourth (ly?). Upgradable hardware? Why do I have to pay apple for a whole new ipad if all i want is an A5X? Hopefully with a tablet i can just swap in the latest and greatest GPU and keep it moving for a 1/3 rd of the price of buying a whole new tablet which, lets face it, is mostly just a new GPU anyway (especially now that all tablets are going to move to 1920 x 1200 and beyond, won't be much point in increasing PPI anymore except to say "mine's bigger than yours")
Fifthly (how did this post get so long? lol) You won't have to teach people to use two different OS's on their PC and on their tablet/ phone. With iOS and android you have to learn OSX/ Windows and learn iOS/android. Then of course your files don't work across them. The game you bought for your home PC won't run on your tablet....etc. With windows 8 its one OS to rule them all at home and on the road and every file, game, word document, EVERYTHING will work EVERYWHERE.
EDIT: was just made aware than Samsung will release a tablet that runs apps side by side. But since its not out yet (i think) my point stands
Firstly, its new. REALLY freaking new. as in its "not a bunch of square icons to drag around like every other device" new.
Throwing up onto the front of a tablet would be really freaking new, too. That doesn't make it any good.
I still haven't seen any sign that Windows 8 offers any advantages, and the demo is a mess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3
ISecondly, why don't Apple and Google allow multitasking windows side by side? Tablets are used a lot in the workplace and having two programs side by side is VERY useful in work situations.
Google will be allowing that soon.
Apple doesn't do it on a tablet because it wastes battery power and offers very few advantages. Why in the world do you need two apps running side-by-side on a tablet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3
IThirdly, apps. Sure, apple and google have big app stores with about 450,000 apps each but windows has millions. Remember, this will be a windows release, not windows phone. every windows app will work. yes, even the custom ones at your job will work cause its windows.
Two problems:
1. Since you're talking about tablets, it will be an ARM device - and won't run legacy apps.
2. Most of those apps aren't designed for tablets and won't be of much use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3
IFourth (ly?). Upgradable hardware? Why do I have to pay apple for a whole new ipad if all i want is an A5X? Hopefully with a tablet i can just swap in the latest and greatest GPU and keep it moving for a 1/3 rd of the price of buying a whole new tablet which, lets face it, is mostly just a new GPU anyway (especially now that all tablets are going to move to 1920 x 1200 and beyond, won't be much point in increasing PPI anymore except to say "mine's bigger than yours")
What in the world makes you think you're going to be able to swap the CPU and/or GPU in a tablet? For that to be practical, you'd need a tablet that's far thicker and heavier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3
IFifthly (how did this post get so long? lol) You won't have to teach people to use two different OS's on their PC and on their tablet/ phone. With iOS and android you have to learn OSX/ Windows and learn iOS/android. Then of course your files don't work across them. The game you bought for your home PC won't run on your tablet....etc. With windows 8 its one OS to rule them all at home and on the road and every file, game, word document, EVERYTHING will work EVERYWHERE.
Files are not an issue. First, most people aren't using their desktop files on their tablet, other than videos and jogs - which will work fine. Then, it's possible to open most files, anyway. And in the rare cases where you might have a problem, you can simply use LogMeIn or BackToMyMac.
Interface? It must be a shame to be incapable of remembering how to use a tablet and a desktop. More importantly, there are differences in the UI for a reason. You don't interact with a tablet the same way you interact with a PC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3
IEDIT: was just made aware than Samsung will release a tablet that runs apps side by side. But since its not out yet (i think) my point stands
Quite interested to see how this turns out.
Since side-by-side apps on a tablet will be out long before Windows 8 tablets, your point doesn't stand.
Thanks to Apple's innovation, and the Sammy photocopier.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk
Thanks to Samsung's technology and manufacturing innovation, and Apple's marketing pull....
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Yeah, that must be it. That explains why Apple is getting 75% of the industry's profits and none of the competitors' products come even close to Apple's in customer satisfaction.
Yep. Probably all about marketing.
There's a bit of truth of all of y'all's comments. Together, they paint almost the right picture. But, of course, none of y'all will admit it.
Why is Samsung even mentioned in this article? 75% versus 15%?
Imagine an article in the 1990's saying "Microsoft and Apple account for 95% of computer sales" (with Apple having 5%). It's ridiculous to clump the two together.
Comments
[...] Samsung's margins are projected to improve to the high teens. [...]
Doesn't sound like much compared to Apple's margins.
But Samsung is crushing all other Android hardware partners. Especially LG.
2012 will be the year that the weaker Android hardware partners are weeded out.
They'll go running to Microsoft, who will give them the cold shoulder because Nokia is already their hardware b*tch.
It's really becoming very hard to see how Windows Phone ever gets anywhere.
I'm starting to wonder if all the tech reviewers who fawn over the Metro interface are just totally out of touch with mainstream consumers. Maybe mainstream consumers look at a bunch of monochromatic boxes with tons of text and feel simultaneously bored and overloaded with information. Maybe consumers really just prefer the simple yet colorful grid of icons approach that Apple has taken and Samsung has aped.
If that's true -- if the failure of WP7 (and the Zune before it) is as much about consumer dislike of the critically acclaimed Metro interface as about first mover advantages and all the rest -- then that also suggests Windows 8 tablets could be a big flop.
You summed up my thoughts exactly.
Oh this one's easy.
Outside of games and game-boxes, MS has lousy, boring, uninspired mindshare. They have ZERO cachet. They're slow, and they don't understand design or marketing.
All they do is REACT, REACT, and then REACT some more.
Hence, the Rise of Apple, and the slow slide of MS into irrelevance. This aint 1995.
Well, to be fair to MS, Metro is pretty original and it's been very well received by the tech punditry (even pro-Apple pundits like Jon Gruber).
But I wonder if the pundits are just out of touch. Maybe MS has succeeded in coming up with an original design that appeals to design snobs but that does not also appeal to a mass market. The design snobs have historically liked Apple products better than MS/PC products, but the design snobs have also had plenty of criticisms of Apple products. But it strikes me that the things the design snobs criticize Apple for are the types of things that ordinary consumers either (1) really like or (2) are completely indifferent to. One example is the dock on the Mac -- consumers like it, design snobs hate it. Another great example is UI "chrome" in apps like Address Book. A more recent example is the anthropomorphic aspects of Siri.
With Metro, it seems that MS might have gone too far towards the design snobs. They've created this super clean, highly functional, techno-elite UI that crams tons of info into the smallest possible space. Geeks find that highly appealing. But maybe ordinary folks find it cold, boring, and prone to information overload.
Thanks to Apple's innovation, and the Sammy photocopier.....
yep. they aren't called Samesung for no reason...they copy everything everyone else does
http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-iphone-android-china-2012-3
Thanks to Samsung's technology and manufacturing innovation, and Apple's marketing pull....
Yeah, that must be it. That explains why Apple is getting 75% of the industry's profits and none of the competitors' products come even close to Apple's in customer satisfaction.
Yep. Probably all about marketing.
I wouldn't exactly say that. Sony, Motorola/Google and Nokia/Microsoft are all very large companies. It's hard to believe that they are not going to put up a fight with so much money at stake. They're all churning out some very good phones at the moment and they've all started to adopt an Apple-like "eco system" approach to their phones and content. I simply don't believe that Apple will be able to hang on to 75% of the profits forever.
The problem here is that they don't own their own top to bottom solution. This makes integration and a uniform customer experience very difficult to achieve. Apple has done this for a long time and people (i.e. consumers) are now used to this. Anything less is not seen by most people as a viable option. This is the problem other companies have. There are many more people that don't care about what is in their phones and who makes the phones than those that just want something that is simple to use and works for them. I hate to break this to those who comment here but we are in the extreme minority of those that really buy product. This is why Apple can still sell with high margins and others cannot. Their stuff is simple and does what people want. Ask any non-tech person (most of the world) about this.
The question is, where would the money come from? They have declining desktop OS revenues, declining Office application revenues and it would be hard to see the justification when they need to be more creative on all product lines just to stand still!!
Perhaps from the >$20B annual profit they seem to be managing.
And their revenue overall is not declining:
2009: $58B
2010: $62B
2011: $69B
Their profit has also increased over this time frame. (source: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=MSFT&annual). A 18% revenue increase over two years (when the world economy is still not very strong) is nothing to scoff at.
So, don't count them out just yet. They do not have a clear strategy, but a pretty huge war chest and a steady revenue (and profit) stream which gives them a lot of financial flexibility (i.e, they can spend like crazy to try and get in the market).
Now, it is also not at all clear that they will come up with a strategy in the mobile space, but they are far from dead. And even if they don't break into mobile, there is still the very lucrative desktop and server market which will bring in money for quite a while.
Yeah, that must be it. That explains why Apple is getting 75% of the industry's profits and none of the competitors' products come even close to Apple's in customer satisfaction.
Yep. Probably all about marketing.
Of course, it is..
I vote this as the absolute worst use of color on a graph. Pick colors that are different enough for each so that you can see what you are looking at. Jeesh!
Yep. But it's not an AI chart, they just reprinted.
Well, to be fair to MS, Metro is pretty original and it's been very well received by the tech punditry (even pro-Apple pundits like Jon Gruber).
But I wonder if the pundits are just out of touch. Maybe MS has succeeded in coming up with an original design that appeals to design snobs but that does not also appeal to a mass market. The design snobs have historically liked Apple products better than MS/PC products, but the design snobs have also had plenty of criticisms of Apple products. But it strikes me that the things the design snobs criticize Apple for are the types of things that ordinary consumers either (1) really like or (2) are completely indifferent to. One example is the dock on the Mac -- consumers like it, design snobs hate it. Another great example is UI "chrome" in apps like Address Book. A more recent example is the anthropomorphic aspects of Siri.
With Metro, it seems that MS might have gone too far towards the design snobs. They've created this super clean, highly functional, techno-elite UI that crams tons of info into the smallest possible space. Geeks find that highly appealing. But maybe ordinary folks find it cold, boring, and prone to information overload.
When will this magic happen?
The "new" metro has been out well over a year it's market share has dawdled to almost nowhere, in spite of all the glowing reviews and fairly obvious astroturfing all over the web..
They should rename it to "gonna" as in, gonna do this and gonna do that!
Doesn't sound like much compared to Apple's margins.
But Samsung is crushing all other Android hardware partners. Especially LG.
2012 will be the year that the weaker Android hardware partners are weeded out.
They'll go running to Microsoft, who will give them the cold shoulder because Nokia is already their hardware b*tch.
The Chinese are coming, Huawei and ZTE.
They have been quite successful at the bottom of the market, building some brand recognition outside of the network branded handsets they have been concentrating on so far.
They are well funded with money from installing network equipment for phone companies upgrading all over the world.
Watch as they undercut Samsung and beat them at their own game.
Stop it! You're making Nokia cry!
They sacked another thousand workers in Finland today.
Firstly, its new. REALLY freaking new. as in its "not a bunch of square icons to drag around like every other device" new.
Secondly, why don't Apple and Google allow multitasking windows side by side? Tablets are used a lot in the workplace and having two programs side by side is VERY useful in work situations.
Thirdly, apps. Sure, apple and google have big app stores with about 450,000 apps each but windows has millions. Remember, this will be a windows release, not windows phone. every windows app will work. yes, even the custom ones at your job will work cause its windows.
Fourth (ly?). Upgradable hardware? Why do I have to pay apple for a whole new ipad if all i want is an A5X? Hopefully with a tablet i can just swap in the latest and greatest GPU and keep it moving for a 1/3 rd of the price of buying a whole new tablet which, lets face it, is mostly just a new GPU anyway (especially now that all tablets are going to move to 1920 x 1200 and beyond, won't be much point in increasing PPI anymore except to say "mine's bigger than yours")
Fifthly (how did this post get so long? lol) You won't have to teach people to use two different OS's on their PC and on their tablet/ phone. With iOS and android you have to learn OSX/ Windows and learn iOS/android. Then of course your files don't work across them. The game you bought for your home PC won't run on your tablet....etc. With windows 8 its one OS to rule them all at home and on the road and every file, game, word document, EVERYTHING will work EVERYWHERE.
EDIT: was just made aware than Samsung will release a tablet that runs apps side by side. But since its not out yet (i think) my point stands
Quite interested to see how this turns out.
I must admit, i am really intrigued by Windows 8.
Firstly, its new. REALLY freaking new. as in its "not a bunch of square icons to drag around like every other device" new.
Throwing up onto the front of a tablet would be really freaking new, too. That doesn't make it any good.
I still haven't seen any sign that Windows 8 offers any advantages, and the demo is a mess.
ISecondly, why don't Apple and Google allow multitasking windows side by side? Tablets are used a lot in the workplace and having two programs side by side is VERY useful in work situations.
Google will be allowing that soon.
Apple doesn't do it on a tablet because it wastes battery power and offers very few advantages. Why in the world do you need two apps running side-by-side on a tablet?
IThirdly, apps. Sure, apple and google have big app stores with about 450,000 apps each but windows has millions. Remember, this will be a windows release, not windows phone. every windows app will work. yes, even the custom ones at your job will work cause its windows.
Two problems:
1. Since you're talking about tablets, it will be an ARM device - and won't run legacy apps.
2. Most of those apps aren't designed for tablets and won't be of much use.
IFourth (ly?). Upgradable hardware? Why do I have to pay apple for a whole new ipad if all i want is an A5X? Hopefully with a tablet i can just swap in the latest and greatest GPU and keep it moving for a 1/3 rd of the price of buying a whole new tablet which, lets face it, is mostly just a new GPU anyway (especially now that all tablets are going to move to 1920 x 1200 and beyond, won't be much point in increasing PPI anymore except to say "mine's bigger than yours")
What in the world makes you think you're going to be able to swap the CPU and/or GPU in a tablet? For that to be practical, you'd need a tablet that's far thicker and heavier.
IFifthly (how did this post get so long? lol) You won't have to teach people to use two different OS's on their PC and on their tablet/ phone. With iOS and android you have to learn OSX/ Windows and learn iOS/android. Then of course your files don't work across them. The game you bought for your home PC won't run on your tablet....etc. With windows 8 its one OS to rule them all at home and on the road and every file, game, word document, EVERYTHING will work EVERYWHERE.
Files are not an issue. First, most people aren't using their desktop files on their tablet, other than videos and jogs - which will work fine. Then, it's possible to open most files, anyway. And in the rare cases where you might have a problem, you can simply use LogMeIn or BackToMyMac.
Interface? It must be a shame to be incapable of remembering how to use a tablet and a desktop. More importantly, there are differences in the UI for a reason. You don't interact with a tablet the same way you interact with a PC.
IEDIT: was just made aware than Samsung will release a tablet that runs apps side by side. But since its not out yet (i think) my point stands
Quite interested to see how this turns out.
Since side-by-side apps on a tablet will be out long before Windows 8 tablets, your point doesn't stand.
Thanks to Apple's innovation, and the Sammy photocopier.....
Thanks to Samsung's technology and manufacturing innovation, and Apple's marketing pull....
Yeah, that must be it. That explains why Apple is getting 75% of the industry's profits and none of the competitors' products come even close to Apple's in customer satisfaction.
Yep. Probably all about marketing.
There's a bit of truth of all of y'all's comments. Together, they paint almost the right picture. But, of course, none of y'all will admit it.
They sacked another thousand workers in Finland today.
Are you sure, the report I read said they announced it, major difference
Imagine an article in the 1990's saying "Microsoft and Apple account for 95% of computer sales" (with Apple having 5%). It's ridiculous to clump the two together.