Data stored in Apple's iCloud deemed 'safe' for most users

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Comments

  • cutykamucutykamu Posts: 212member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post


    The real issue here is when are they going to update iWork for OSX with iCloud integration embedded throughout.



    with mountain lion.
  • shaun, ukshaun, uk Posts: 1,050member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    1) Document storage on the cloud is convnient because these tend to be smaller files. But do you keep all your media and apps on the could? Do you want your device to be a dumb-terminal with your OS UI server side? There are clearly limits to the cloud and the bet solutuon is to integrate the cloud with local storage. Dropbox does this splededly.



    2) Dropbox makes this a grey solution because it only updates the chanea an you access old updates for at least 30 days. I recommend students using that do they don't lose any notes/papers.



    3) I'm expecting new iWork apps when Apple updates the MBPs. I'm expecting an event for this.



    The thing I like about Dropbox is that the files reside on my computer locally and are mirrored on Dropbox servers. So if my internet connection is down I can still access my files. Dropbox just updates it's servers in the background when my internet connection comes back up. It's the perfect solution.



    I don't store my media in the cloud coz my iTunes library is way too big and it would take forever to upload it. However, I think the ideal solution would be for Apple to offer a sort of digital locker solution. Let's say I buy an iTunes movie or TV series. Why do I need to download it? It would be better if it was stored in iCloud and I could stream it instead if I wanted. If I'm planning to watch it on my iPhone then ok I could download it later.



    Edit: I can see the advantages of cloud apps - you don't have to worry about software updates, no more backups, your files/data are safe if your HDD dies, etc but I prefer the Dropbox method where I can access my files without having to be online. My wireless router is not 100% reliable. However if you run a small business cloud apps are definitely the future. I've spent a fortune over the years on servers, networks and IT support contracts just to keep my business network running. Cloud apps takeaway all that cost. It can represent a big cost saving for small businesses without dedicated IT staff.
  • shaun, ukshaun, uk Posts: 1,050member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cutykamu View Post


    with mountain lion.



    I hope you're right. It's nearly 4 years since the last version of iWork.
  • jlanddjlandd Posts: 831member
    Anyway, since the original point of the thread was the security, not the practicality of the thing, it's pretty clear that it's all the same as it always is on any online commercial system, private email, vendor communications, etc. If you don't upload anything that you wouldn't want anyone/someone else to see you're fine. It'll work out great.



    There are places on the net where it's safe to drop that rule, but commercial storage clouds sure ain't them.
  • suddenly newtonsuddenly newton Posts: 13,091member
    Quote:

    Chris Foresman at Ars Technica took a closer look at Apple's iCloud in an effort answer the question: "How safe is my data stored in iCloud?" He came away with the conclusion that Apple's service is at least as safe as using any other remote server, and maybe even more than most.



    Yeah, I'm sure Consumer Reports will find some fault with iCloud.
  • commoncentscommoncents Posts: 68member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tyler82 View Post


    It already has made local storage matter less. I can now store videos in the cloud. I could not do that a few weeks ago.





    In theory, with 4G speeds, just about everything could be kept in the cloud.



    The problem is the cost of data streaming. Just downloading a single movie from iTunes would use up your 2GB data plan costing $30/mo.



    I agree with the prior poster who says we'll see more local storage, not less. (Which is good for Apple shareholders, as Apple makes a good profit by selling more storage)
  • abarryabarry Posts: 31member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Fortunately they're not, so that's not really an issue yet. I imagine next year we'll see 32/64/128.



    You have a point. The '4th Gen' iPad will have 32/64/128 GB and be sold at current price points of $499/599/699 for Wi-Fi models. The '3rd Gen' iPad (the 'new' iPad), will be sold for $399 as a Wi-Fi only, 16GB model.
  • haarhaar Posts: 509member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post


    Just remember when using the magical cloud servers that your documents become the property of that company.



    but apple's iCloud is not magical, thus they are not apple's



    seriously, where in the EULA covering the icloud does it say that it is magical and that they own your content?.
  • relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    There are many good document encryption programs on the market today and a few that even offer integration into MS Office. Every doc that I send up is encrypted on the fly and then decoded when opened. I don't even notice that its being done most of the time unless I activate a verbose mode. There is a great solution called DataLocker. It's a middleware that sits between your online data and your desktop. Simply drag your data to a folder on your desktop like you would normally do but instead of it immediatly uploading you files they are encrypted first.



    I don't know if it's available yet for iCloud but I believe so. I only use iCloud for backing up my Mac settings and other Apple only things for storage however I use Skydrive as it offers better Office integration, faster upload speeds and they give you 25GB free vs. Apples 5GB.
  • dcorbandcorban Posts: 58member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post


    Just remember when using the magical cloud servers that your documents become the property of that company.



    This is a ridiculous comment. To take your comment to the logical conclusion, if I store a PDF of my new book on iCloud, Apple suddenly owns the book and could sell it freely.



    Do people even think before they regurgitate what they have heard or read?
  • recroninrecronin Posts: 11member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post


    The thing I like about Dropbox is that the files reside on my computer locally and are mirrored on Dropbox servers. So if my internet connection is down I can still access my files. Dropbox just updates it's servers in the background when my internet connection comes back up. It's the perfect solution.



    I don't store my media in the cloud coz my iTunes library is way too big and it would take forever to upload it. However, I think the ideal solution would be for Apple to offer a sort of digital locker solution. Let's say I buy an iTunes movie or TV series. Why do I need to download it? It would be better if it was stored in iCloud and I could stream it instead if I wanted. If I'm planning to watch it on my iPhone then ok I could download it later.



    Edit: I can see the advantages of cloud apps - you don't have to worry about software updates, no more backups, your files/data are safe if your HDD dies, etc but I prefer the Dropbox method where I can access my files without having to be online. My wireless router is not 100% reliable. However if you run a small business cloud apps are definitely the future. I've spent a fortune over the years on servers, networks and IT support contracts just to keep my business network running. Cloud apps takeaway all that cost. It can represent a big cost saving for small businesses without dedicated IT staff.



    iCloud documents are local and sync to the cloud as well. Whenever you have an online connection and open up an iWork app such as Pages, one of the first things that happens is that it syncs all your documents with iCloud. If you lose your internet connection, you still have access to all your documents and can even modify them or create new ones and have them sync next time you're online.



    If you add/edit documents while offline on multiple devices, you'll receive a popup that lets you choose to keep either one or multiple versions of the document(s).



    Aside from a file structure and sharing features, iCloud is very much like Dropbox and in many ways better.
  • jlanddjlandd Posts: 831member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by haar View Post


    but apple's iCloud is not magical, thus they are not apple's



    seriously, where in the EULA covering the icloud does it say that it is magical and that they own your content?.







    Yeah, that's a misconception. But every cloud company disclaimer that I've bothered to pore over before I joined indemnify themselves against anything that would happen as a result of a breach. They certainly don't own it but if a picture goes on a billboard you can't sue them.
  • recroninrecronin Posts: 11member
    What I'd like to know is whether Messages (Apple app) are encrypted or not. It says they are on the features page for iOS but on the iCloud KB it makes no mention:



    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4865
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 40,379member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dcorban View Post


    This is a ridiculous comment. To take your comment to the logical conclusion, if I store a PDF of my new book on iCloud, Apple suddenly owns the book and could sell it freely.



    Do people even think before they regurgitate what they have heard or read?



    It's true with Google services. He's probably just assuming it is for iCloud.
  • jlanddjlandd Posts: 831member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dcorban View Post


    This is a ridiculous comment. To take your comment to the logical conclusion, if I store a PDF of my new book on iCloud, Apple suddenly owns the book and could sell it freely.



    Do people even think before they regurgitate what they have heard or read?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    It's true with Google services. He's probably just assuming it is for iCloud.



    No that's not true. Google does not claim OWNERSHIP on any content you upload. It would be great if the moderator would be the one to prevent urban legend from being stated as fact, but, alas, here we are on AI.



    Devan Goldstein's blog on this was bookmarked on my browser so I'll paste some of the Google Terms of Service here as he posted there.



    Three paragraphs to note:



    "11.1\tYou retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services."



    and



    "This license is for the sole purpose of enabling Google to display, distribute and promote the Services and may be revoked for certain Services as defined in the Additional Terms of those Services."



    So go to each of those services and read the terms. If there was anything that claimed transfer of ownership of rights I missed it, but at least I read them. You are granting them universal rights to utilize your uploads, but this doesn't pertain to going into your 1988 condo meeting spreadsheets and selling them to the highest bidder. They would not win a case concerning, for example, family notes in your archive being taken by Google and used to publish a bio on your family. From a security perspective, if you valued the privacy of such notes it would be wrong to have them online unencrypted anywhere, but that's not an "ownership" issue.



    And as far as images, this is from the Picasa TOS:



    "Your Intellectual Property Rights: Google does not claim any ownership in any of the content, including any text, data, information, images, photographs, music, sound, video, or other material, that you upload, transmit or store in your Picasa account. We will not use any of your content for any purpose except to provide you with the Service."





    So nowhere does Google say they claim ownership of anything, and in fact they clearly state the user retains any rights already implied. There can be many discussion on the lack of security in using Google services, or how you are assigning them the right to use your work within Google. From what I can see they are claiming the right to use an image for any visual within any Google service for any use related to a Google service but not to sell it to someone to use it in non-Google advertising, for example. Again, that a picture of you might show up in a billboard in an insurance company ad is related to a totally different issue than the one in this topic.



    I welcome being shown info that disputes this, not as a dare for the actual facts to trump non-facts. This is how it's looking to me. Any intellectual property lawyers out there dealt with it yet?
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 40,379member
    Thanks for clarifications where and when they're needed. But all I know is that I know a guy that was collaborating on work at Lockheed Martin who sent them ONE e-mail using a Gmail address and they railed at him like you wouldn't believe. He nearly lost the contract over it, and he told me it was for that very reason: They're afraid of Google making money on their stuff because their TOS allows them to just up and take anything uploaded there.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jlandd View Post


    By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services.



    And how's that different than just handing over your trade secrets or copywritten creations to them? That's not 'retaining the copyright' at all. That's completely abolishing it in favor of a bastardization of CC licensing.



    Quote:

    "Your Intellectual Property Rights: Google does not claim any ownership in any of the content, including any text, data, information, images, photographs, music, sound, video, or other material, that you upload, transmit or store in your Picasa account. We will not use any of your content for any purpose except to provide you with the Service."



    So why isn't this the standard across all their services?



    Quote:

    From what I can see they are claiming the right to use an image for any visual within any Google service for any use related to a Google service



    Is there a means by which to opt out of this?
  • jlanddjlandd Posts: 831member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Thanks for clarifications where and when they're needed. But all I know is that I know a guy that was collaborating on work at Lockheed Martin who sent them ONE e-mail using a Gmail address and they railed at him like you wouldn't believe. He nearly lost the contract over it, and he told me it was for that very reason: They're afraid of Google making money on their stuff because their TOS allows them to just up and take anything uploaded there.





    TS, I think their concern is warranted but due to Google's well deserved reputation for playing loose with privacy and security, which is another kettle of fish. And unfortunately any direction we turn in we're faced with that. I'm on Verizon.net which made us choose Yahoo or Hotmail as our provider email a decade ago. Yahoo is insisting on upgrading me to their latest version, in which they "customize" the user experience, as is the order of the day. How do they do this? Buried in the update agreement they use a very few words that basically mean that they scan all my incoming and outgoing emails to make these determinations and "learn" via the data, and save and archive it for the purpose of better customer experience. Maybe the old version of Yahoo does this anyway, but putting potential spam in my junk folder by virtue of the subject and if the sender isn't in my contacts is enough... if the better way is to know right off the bat that not only my contacts but supposedly private emails get scanned and used for data mining. Then again, maybe we all just have to accept this? It certainly is coming from all angles, Google being the most obvious but maybe, for example, there is no other commercial email route that is less so? Dunno, but it's not a good feeling.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    And how's that different than just handing over your trade secrets or copywritten creations to them? That's not 'retaining the copyright' at all. That's completely abolishing it in favor of a bastardization of CC licensing.



    The difference seems that Google is granted the right to use as they wish but you are not relinquishing any rights to keep using as you wish, and also they don't have the right to sell the ownership or rights to a third party. They can modify, publish and display as they desire, but they can't stop you from still doing it and they can't profit from it other than as used by displaying within Google. I might be wrong about that across the board, but that's what I take away from it overall. It is cockamamie but only in context of rational intellectual communication as we knew it pre-Google era. Sadly it doesn't seem all that out of place these days.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    So why isn't this the standard across all their services?



    If I were to give them the benefit of the doubt it I would say because it enables them to have a simpler ground level agreement, and then each service can have one which specifically addresses the issue further, and that these individual service TOS's may negate parts of the broad TOS is just typical legalese which shouldn't be looked at too negatively. OTOH we're talking about the company who went into users' Safari settings and flipped them to their favor without user permission or knowledge, so don't think for a minute that I would give Google any such BOD : )







    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Is there a means by which to opt out of this?



    I think once you have a Google account, like me and 90% of everyone, you're done for : )
  • lllllemonlllllemon Posts: 2member


    What is the answer to whether the data is encrypted on its way to the server?


     


    Thank you.

  • lllllemonlllllemon Posts: 2member


    Ah, guess I had to word the search differently.  Found my answer to whether the data is encrypted in the airspace between computer and server:


     


    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4865?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US


     


    lllllemon

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