Ex Apple engineer claims Steve Jobs rejected new Apple TV UI 5 years ago [u]

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Comments

  • milkmagemilkmage Posts: 151member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by isaidso View Post


    Why would "a menu" called "Apps" be bad?



    I have around 150 apps on my phone. a menu with one third of that looks like this



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    the same can be accomplished in 2 5x5 grids of 25 each.
  • rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Do you mean 'apparently' because he allowed this UI to pass or because it's been reported that's the case? Steve Jobs himself said Ive has more operational power than anyone else at Apple:



    'He called Jonathan Ive, Apple?s design chief, his ?spiritual partner? at Apple. He told Isaacson that Ive had ?more operation power? at Apple than anyone besides Jobs himself ? that there?s no one at the company who can tell Ive what to do. That, says Jobs, is ?the way I set it up.?'



    http://www.edibleapple.com/2011/10/2...es-steve-jobs/



    That page also has a good quote about why companies can fail and I suspect the further on Apple goes without a new revolution, we will hear more allusions to the artists being ignored in favour of the sales guys.







    It might seem less functional just now but if they add items, drop-down menus would get very cluttered. An icon view can be customised to put your favourite items only a few small clicks away. Step 1 is building a scalable design, the menu system was not scalable.



    Jony Ive is a hardware designer. I wish his ID team had involvement in software UI design but their area of expertise seems to be hardware only. On the hardware side you can really see they've hit their stride. Clean, minimalist look and all the hardware designs seems to gel really well, nothing out of place. I don't think they've found it yet on the software side. Below is a great blog posting on the aesthetic dichotomy between Apple's hardware design and software UI. Perhaps Steve wasn't as obsessed on the software side, or maybe he just had better taste when it came to hardware than software.



    http://madebymany.com/blog/apples-aesthetic-dichotomy
  • justflybobjustflybob Posts: 1,337member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    I just don't get why they wouldn't have just gone with a direct iOS lookalike though, you know?



    Something like this.



    I think the answer in the near future will be somewhere between what you and SolipsismX have liked and disliked about the current interface. Always hard to please everyone, but you both bring up points that should be considered for any future modifications.



    I do like the icons over the menus, but part of that has to do with the simplicity, or difficulty, of navigating with the Apple Remote. Lot's of "oh &^%^&" moments if you are even remotely visually or physically impaired.



    There is still an awful lot of room for improvement, though. Stayed tuned!
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


    Jony Ive is a hardware designer. I wish his ID team had involvement in software UI design but their area of expertise seems to be hardware only. On the hardware side you can really see they've hit their stride. Clean, minimalist look and all the hardware designs seems to gel really well, nothing out of place. I don't think they've found it yet on the software side. Below is a great blog posting on the aesthetic dichotomy between Apple's hardware design and software UI. Perhaps Steve wasn't as obsessed on the software side, or maybe he just had better taste when it came to hardware than software.



    http://madebymany.com/blog/apples-aesthetic-dichotomy



    I think that's very misleading. The user must interact with the software while the hardware should get out of the way. Thus, it is easier to make clean, simple hardware than doing the same with software.
  • cjcampbellcjcampbell Posts: 93member
    Well, I hate to say it, but change the background color from black to white and you have the Nintendo Wii!
  • not1lostnot1lost Posts: 136member
    Looks llike some kinda andriod crap!
  • rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    I think that's very misleading. The user must interact with the software while the hardware should get out of the way. Thus, it is easier to make clean, simple hardware than doing the same with software.



    Sorry but I think the hardware is very elegant, high end looking products. The software looks cheap - fake book shelves, faux leather etc. Yuck.
  • rickertbrickertb Posts: 34member
    Agree!



    New UI looks like crap!

    We have one in our boardroom at work, but this is a no show.



    This is the worst UI I have even seen from Apple
  • slurpyslurpy Posts: 4,469member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kymcha View Post


    I don't care that it is now a grid of icons but the implementation is crap. Most TV screens would be 40" or more and they can't fit all the icons on the screen ? Massive huge plates for icons, reminds me of Lotus Notes ... I think I'm going to be sick.



    Yeah, because fitting as many icons as possible while making them fucking tiny would be a brilliant for a TV, right, because everyone sits 5 inches away?



    Seriously, some of you can't even think for 5 seconds before making idiotic statements. Apple didn't just pull this out of it's ass. It's the richest company in the world, and one of the most careful. I'm pretty sure they made a couple hundred mockups with different sized icons, etc, before deciding on this specific, implementation for a myriad of reasons.
  • tontontonton Posts: 14,063member
    Count me in as one of those who think that the new interface is ugly as sin. I cringe every time I look at it. And I agree that the blue outline is way too hard to see.



    The icon grid may be a step forward, but apple failed horribly in aesthetics this time around.
  • razorpitrazorpit Posts: 808member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by msantti View Post


    Jobs was still alive when we started to get "leather" in iOS.



    How did that happen?



    THANK YOU for mentioning this! The new Apple TV UI is a work of flippn' art compared to what has happen with all the leather and stitching. I still think the calendar app in Lion looks like something that escaped from the Lotus Notes labs in 1997.



    One thing I just thought of, can some one please ask this engineer if he is refering to the same Steve Jobs that also originally turned down the idea of apps on the iPhone, or can people change their mind on things?



    Damn, as I'm reading the posts I see I wasn't the first to reference Lotus Notes. Oh well I guess that goes to show how bad of a UI that project was/is.
  • yensid98yensid98 Posts: 302member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    Count me in as one of those who think that the new interface is ugly as sin. I cringe every time I look at it. And I agree that the blue outline is way too hard to see.



    The icon grid may be a step forward, but apple failed horribly in aesthetics this time around.



    "Ugly as sin"? Really? I think that's going a bit too far. It's not at all ugly in my book, just not implemented well. Users need to be able to arrange the icons in an order of their choosing and sub menus should match the main ones.



    It seems a main contention is that the Movie and TV Show posters take up half the screen and I'd agree that it's not the most user friendly solution. I see it as Apple trying to keep the focus on purchasing and renting over accessing personal content. Though I see the business reasons for doing such a thing, being a user I'd much rather only see those posters if I was actually looking to make a purchase. Again, this isn't an ugly OS decision, but one not in the best interest of users.
  • adonissmuadonissmu Posts: 1,723member
    Lol at everyone jumping on the bandwagon. I think this is a step up from the last UI design of Apple TV.
  • kotatsukotatsu Posts: 1,010member
    The way I see it, the biggest problem with the ATV at present is a lack of vision/effort. The current UI is a hodgepodge of some iOS elements stuck over various old ATV text and cover art based elements. There's no consistency, and so it's a mess.



    If Apple want to go down the iOS route, then make it like iOS. Open up an app store and let third parties make their own 'channel' apps. Each would inevitably be their own little worlds with different interfaces. Not ideal, but it's the current situation on the iPhone and iPad, and those devices seem rather popular. It would be the quickest way to make the ATV into a truly useful, mass market product.



    The other route would be to essentially do what Microsoft are trying to do with the Xbox. Decide on a single interface design and use it everywhere. For third party content, develop their 'apps' in-house and so force them to use the same consistent UI. Add universal voice search to allow users to find content across all providers in a single search.



    Either way would be better than the current ATV debacle.
  • philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,286member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kymcha View Post


    Massive huge plates for icons, reminds me of Lotus Notes ... I think I'm going to be sick.



    I thought Microsoft had a monopoly in creating crap software, but after having to work (and administer) Lotus Notes (and Domino) I realized they didn't. Now it's becoming mainstream, safe Apple.
  • pondosinatrapondosinatra Posts: 463member
    I don't have an AppleTV, but the interface has to be better than OS X which is a god awful patchwork of 10 years of mucking about without adhering to consistent guidelines.
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 39,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post


    I don't have an AppleTV, but the interface has to be better than OS X which is a god awful patchwork of 10 years of mucking about without adhering to consistent guidelines.



    Having nothing to do with the thread. Nice try.
  • sierrajeffsierrajeff Posts: 366member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Corrections View Post


    How ridiculous. The previous UI was a clumsy bunch of pulldown menus.



    They weren't pulldown menus - the user didn't have to do anything to make them appear (like a click), merely scroll to the header.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Corrections View Post


    That's supposed to be better than the more cohesive, iOS-like Home screen?



    One of several ways it was better: I could be down in one of the menus, and simply right-click the wheel to access another menu (e.g., go from TV Shows to Internet). I didn't have to go back up to the top before I could go over to another option.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Corrections View Post


    It's not ugly, certainly better looking and easier to use than Google TV.



    Ah yes, "Better than Google" being such a high standard.
  • sierrajeffsierrajeff Posts: 366member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post


    I still like the *first* UI best.



    I'll never use MLB, so why the hell do I have to look at it?



    +1. If only a user could customize the new interface -- such an incredibly simple request -- it'd be lightyears better.
  • rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by razorpit View Post


    THANK YOU for mentioning this! The new Apple TV UI is a work of flippn' art compared to what has happen with all the leather and stitching. I still think the calendar app in Lion looks like something that escaped from the Lotus Notes labs in 1997.



    One thing I just thought of, can some one please ask this engineer if he is refering to the same Steve Jobs that also originally turned down the idea of apps on the iPhone, or can people change their mind on things?



    Damn, as I'm reading the posts I see I wasn't the first to reference Lotus Notes. Oh well I guess that goes to show how bad of a UI that project was/is.



    I think it's unfortunate we get stories like this b/c not everything under Steve's watch was perfect or great. There's plenty of 'kitsch' in OS X and iOS that all happened under Steve's watch. On the hardware side Apple moved into a classy glass/aluminum/stainless steel theme. On the software side they have some work to do, IMO.
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