Australian government accuses Apple of 'misleading' 4G claims with new iPad

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  • Reply 81 of 197
    john.bjohn.b Posts: 2,651member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    I'm still not seeing any change in wording on the Australian Apple store site

    http://store.apple.com/au/browse/hom...ad/select_ipad



    Not even a footnote that 4G isn't available to Australian's purchasing the iPad 4G.



    Did the ITU revoke 4G status for HSPA+ recently? No? Well, there you go.
  • Reply 82 of 197
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 15,604member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by John.B View Post


    Did the ITU revoke 4G status for HSPA+ recently? No? Well, there you go.



    I thought the discussion was about Australian's expectations, not the definition from the ITU. Is that what Australians expect 4G to be? What's the point of having country specific sales sites if the information on them isn't specific to that country?
  • Reply 83 of 197
    woodlinkwoodlink Posts: 198member
    Australian's apparently can't read English, or we have a very poorly defined standard for 4G just in the same way that we didn't have standards for Wi-Fi b,g and n.



    Or both.



    Put another shrimp on the barby.
  • Reply 84 of 197
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 15,604member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Woodlink View Post


    Australian's apparently can't read English, or we have a very poorly defined standard for 4G just in the same way that we didn't have standards for Wi-Fi b,g and n.



    Or both.



    Where on this page does Apple say that 4G isn't available to the Aussie iPad 4G? In fact where does it even say it's only available in North America, even in a tiny footnote somewhere? I don't see it as a reading failure as much as an advertising failure.

    http://store.apple.com/au/browse/hom...ad/select_ipad
  • Reply 85 of 197
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    I'm still not seeing any change in wording on the Australian Apple store site

    http://store.apple.com/au/browse/hom...ad/select_ipad



    Not even a footnote that 4G isn't available to Australian's purchasing the iPad 4G.



    References to LTE on the Au Store have been removed



    Quote:

    4G coverage is not available in all areas and varies by carrier. See your carrier for details.



    Quote:

    The iPad with Wi-Fi + 4G model can roam worldwide on fast GSM/UMTS networks, including HSPA, HSPA+, and DC-HSDPA. When you travel internationally, you can use a micro-SIM card from a local carrier. You can also connect to the 4G LTE networks of AT&T in the U.S. and Bell, Rogers, and Telus in Canada.



    The US iPad store site has been changed as well, but like Canada includes LTE.
  • Reply 86 of 197
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Where on this page does Apple say that 4G isn't available to the Aussie iPad 4G? In fact where does it even say it's only available in North America, even in a tiny footnote somewhere? I don't see it as a reading failure as much as an advertising failure.

    http://store.apple.com/au/browse/hom...ad/select_ipad



    The ad creates an impression. The impression is false.



    A careful reading might reveal the truth. Ads are too often read quickly.
  • Reply 87 of 197
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Where on this page does Apple say that 4G isn't available to the Aussie iPad 4G? In fact where does it even say it's only available in North America, even in a tiny footnote somewhere? I don't see it as a reading failure as much as an advertising failure.

    http://store.apple.com/au/browse/hom...ad/select_ipad



    Select a product. Even a blind man isn't as will see it.
  • Reply 88 of 197
    toruktoruk Posts: 38member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Onhka View Post


    So how many labels do you want?



    The appropriate amount used as necessary.



    Regarding the labelling of the cellular-enabled iPad in the United Kingdom, it should be labeled '3G' because the 3rd generation of mobile telecommunications is the highest generation of standard mobile telecommunication services the iPad supports in the United Kingdom.



    Furthermore, the cellular-enabled iPad supports frequencies within the spectrum band of 700 MHz to 2,100 MHz. However, the scheduled 4G LTE network in the United Kingdom will use the 800 MHz, 1,800 MHz and 2,600 MHz cellular bands whereas the iPad supports 4G LTE on the 700 MHz and 2,100 MHz bands.
  • Reply 89 of 197
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Hill60, why is it a footnote, intended as a technical clarification? Do you really honestly believe that a footnote is proper notice considering the site is only for Australian buyers of iPad's intended for use in Australia?



    A plain and simple "4G services are not available for Apple's iPad 4G in Australia" right above the selection box for iPad wi-fi with 4G would be more appropriate wouldn't it, assuming Apple didn't actually intend for there to be some confusion? I'm interested in your answer.



    1) It's the name of the device. Do you think Apple should have a different name for each country just because a user might not have access to certain network or because a country has chosen not to use the ITU'R's definition of '4G' because they deemed it unmarketable?



    2) If we start going down that route we have to say that 802.11n is only available for those with routers that are capable of 802.11n. Do you honestly support a lawsuit that says Apple claimed speeds 10x faster than 802.11g but only put in a technical footnote about you needing a router that supports 802.11n. Of course not! So all this irrationality now.



    3) Is there really a law that has defined '4G' being LTE Advance in Australia or it just an accepted marketing term?





    PS: It's fine that Australia and other countries don't want to follow the ITU-R's definition of '4G". They have that right just as T-Mobile USA had that right back in 2009 which eventually caused the ITU-R to redefine their very, very stupid gap between '3G' and '4G' but the same questions remain: WHy does Apple have to now cater to all these countries that aren't following the ITU-R's definition? Why should Apple have a new name for the device in every country that chooses not to recognize the ITU-R's accepted use of '4G'?
  • Reply 90 of 197
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    I thought the discussion was about Australian's expectations, not the definition from the ITU. Is that what Australians expect 4G to be? What's the point of having country specific sales sites if the information on them isn't specific to that country?



    So you're saying Apple is technically and legally correct and therefore shouldn't be sued. Glad to hear it.
  • Reply 91 of 197
    john.bjohn.b Posts: 2,651member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Toruk View Post


    Furthermore, the cellular-enabled iPad supports frequencies within the spectrum band of 700 MHz to 2,100 MHz. However, the scheduled 4G LTE network in the United Kingdom will use the 800 MHz, 1,800 MHz and 2,600 MHz cellular bands whereas the iPad supports 4G LTE on the 700 MHz and 2,100 MHz bands.



    Be sure to update us when that becomes a real "first-world" problem for you.



    I'll bet there is a world-mode LTE iPad (4th gen) long before LTE is actually rolled out across the UK.
  • Reply 92 of 197
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 15,604member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Onhka View Post


    Select a product. Even a blind man isn't as will see it.



    I did. This is the only statement about 4G that I see. Did I miss it? I'll be the first to admit my eyesight isn't near what it used to be.



    "The iPad with Wi-Fi + 4G model can roam worldwide on fast GSM/UMTS networks, including HSPA, HSPA+, and DC-HSDPA. When you travel internationally, you can use a micro-SIM card from a local carrier. You can also connect to the 4G LTE networks of AT&T in the U.S. and Bell, Rogers, and Telus in Canada."
  • Reply 93 of 197
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 15,604member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    So you're saying Apple is technically and legally correct and therefore shouldn't be sued. Glad to hear it.



    That's certainly not for me to decide.

    IMO the advertising could be considered misleading. Perhaps the Aussie government thinks so too. Or not.
  • Reply 94 of 197
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    That's certainly not for me to decide.

    IMO the advertising could be considered misleading. Perhaps the Aussie government thinks so too. Or not.



    This whole thing is very odd. I've never seen a case where using the definition of a standards body is considered misleading but using the colloquial definition generated by marketing firms is the legal definition.
  • Reply 95 of 197
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by John.B View Post


    I'll bet there is a world-mode LTE iPad (4th gen) long before LTE is actually rolled out across the UK.



    I have been unsuccessful in finding out how many LTE bands are supported by the Qualcomm MDM9615 presumed to be used in the 6th gen iPhone. Anyone know this?
  • Reply 96 of 197
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


    your iPhone says that because it is a 4g device. It just isn't an LTE device. But it is a legit status based on the actual definition of 4g which is based on speed and not style. Your iPhone was in an area with the required speed to be termed 4g



    OK I'm confused then. Is my phone supposed to be faster now? I didn't see 4G in the status bar until I updated to the latest version of iOS.
  • Reply 97 of 197
    sockrolidsockrolid Posts: 2,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has announced it will take Apple to court over "misleading" advertisements showing its newest touchscreen tablet runs at 4G speeds in Australia. [...]



    AT&T is misleading consumers as well. They've re-named their HSPA+ network "4G" on their coverage maps.

    Neither LTE nor HSPA+ is "4G." LTE's full name is "3rd Generation Partnership Project Long Term Evolution."

    And "real 4G" exists only in laboratories.



    Here's a link to definitions of HSPA+ and LTE (appropriately on 3GPP.org):



    http://www.3gpp.org/Specifications
  • Reply 98 of 197
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post


    AT&T is misleading consumers as well. They've re-named their HSPA+ network "4G" on their coverage maps.

    Neither LTE nor HSPA+ is "4G." LTE's full name is "3rd Generation Partnership Project Long Term Evolution."

    And "real 4G" exists only in laboratories.



    Here's a link to definitions of HSPA+ and LTE (appropriately on 3GPP.org):



    http://www.3gpp.org/Specifications



    It's like Ground Hog's day around here. Again, the ITU is the definition that everyone first grabbed onto but they changed their definition in 2010. So why do you continue to use their antiquated and out of data definition? Also, since when is a cardinal number followed by a letter protected by and governed by the US government? Could you not call the iPhone 4 the 4G iPhone without being sued by the US government? Did we not refer to many iPods in this way without it being confusing we weren't referring to the ITU's definition of 2G, 3G, and 4G?
  • Reply 99 of 197
    john.bjohn.b Posts: 2,651member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


    OK I'm confused then. Is my phone supposed to be faster now? I didn't see 4G in the status bar until I updated to the latest version of iOS.



    The ITU reclassified HSPA+ as "4G". Apple subsequently updated the status bar to report 4G for an HSPA+ data connection, starting in iOS 5.1.
  • Reply 100 of 197
    shaun, ukshaun, uk Posts: 1,050member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Toruk View Post


    I agree. The iPad supports the 700 MHz and 2,100 MHz frequencies which is used in the United States and Canada for 4G LTE networking. The present and future 4G networks in Europe will use the 800 MHz, 1,800 MHz and 2,600 MHz cellular bands.



    The cellular-enable iPad should be labeled accordingly, i.e. '3G' worldwide and '4G' in the United States and Canada.



    Good point. The iPad 3 will NEVER be 4G compatible in the UK in its current format so how they can advertise it as 4G is beyond me. It's totally misleading to the average person. They should REMOVE all references to 4G outside the US and Canada.
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