Hey look at that America! People who actually want to work and improve their economy and position in life and realize that they are not entitled to the good life but have to work for it. People who don't complain about every little nitpicky detail about their workplace. Wow!
It is not about making workers abroad happy, it is about making them uncompetitive in a futile attempt to make jobs come back to US.
First, that's not going to happen (and who on earth wants it to?!?! )
Second, why do you hate the Chinese people so much that you want to put them out of work and knock them off the ladder they're using to climb out of poverty?
First, that's not going to happen (and who on earth wants it to?!?! )
Second, why do you hate the Chinese people so much that you want to put them out of work and knock them off the ladder they're using to climb out of poverty?
No, blame the rapidly growing set of socialist Americans that feel everyone needs to be forced to live by a set of government mandated rules rather than by personal choice.
Actually, we kind of do know what we're doing. There is such a thing as repetitive stress injury (RSI) that will occur if these people continue to work assembly lines 60+ hours/week. If you want your iPhone so cheap that you want workers in another country maimed for life, you are sub-human. There is nothing whatsoever stupid about cutting their time to 49 hours a week. Oh, and by the way, 49 hours/week is the law there. So your objection about westerners not knowing about eastern cultures falls badly flat. Grow up and learn something.
LOL!! Well, looks like it's Whiteman's Burden all over again.. all coming from the know-it-all condescending western liberals.
I detested the Mike Daisy furor and believe that when you remove his lies, everything else he talked about was public knowledge and on Apple's radar.
That said, I'm even more disgusted by the commentors here who are saying that its none of our business. Nonsense. Its the ability of Chinese companies to exploit their workers (among all of the other 'externalities' that they are able to entice American companies with) that have decimated American manufacturing. Its in our interest to use every bit of leverage we have to force them in every way possible to improve not only labor conditions and wages, but pollution as well.
This is the best article and news I've seen in years.
Go Apple, even if it did take a bit of a kick in the pants.
Here's a likely outcome: Apple's costs may actually fall, since there is less overtime (which is usually paid at >1x of standard wages)!
Ah, the irony.
The unintended consequences that do-gooders leave behind never ceases to amaze me....
Overtime is usually the least expensive time an employer pays for because it is a marginal cost, and other expenses increases little which more than compensates for the additional pay.
I actually some were foolish enough to except Foxconn to start paying them the minimum of the country/state they reside in.
If they can't allow people to work as many hours then you build more dorms and hire more people. We saw the number of people lining up. Of course, now you have more idle young adults and a lot more of them in a much more crowded space. Will these myopic westerners consider the dangers of that situation?
Like it or not, the situation in these countries is very different than it is here. These people can be hundreds of miles from their families, and even the wages they make are far higher than what they would make at home. So sure, many don't mind working what we would consider to be backbreaking hours. They're used to that.
If not in a factory, they would be working 12 hours a day on the farm for far less. But that's how developing countries move up into the developed world. It's only once they get there that people don't want to work hard anymore.
So here, people can't wait to finish their 8 hours and run home to do nothing of import. But there, they'd rather be working.
I keep saying that our standards are not theirs, and we have no right to try to make it so. So, safe working conditions, minimum wages and benefits, yes. But otherwise, we should leave them alone.
We look at Europe, and see some countries where working conditions are, from our viewpoint in the US, ridiculous. We think that it's one of the causes of their problems. They often get 8 weeks vacation, 6 weeks sick leave. Retire after 20 years, etc. they think we're barbarians because WE work too hard. So, it's all relative.
If Chinese law limits a work week to 49 hours then that should be respected, for better or worse.
I take no issue with the law being followed by I do take issue with those that wanted to see hours reduced for the benefit of the Foxconn workers. Are things really better for them if they make less money, have more free time between shifts in a factory town, and there are 25% more employees needed within the same space to take up the slack now created by a reduction of working hours? It's good for those workers that are trying to get into Foxconn, but I see issues for those already gainful employed.
How much of a weekly wage lose is it? If workers try to save up while working at Foxconn for 2 years how much longer will they have to work in order to save up the same amount?
Actually, we kind of do know what we're doing. There is such a thing as repetitive stress injury (RSI) that will occur if these people continue to work assembly lines 60+ hours/week. If you want your iPhone so cheap that you want workers in another country maimed for life, you are sub-human. There is nothing whatsoever stupid about cutting their time to 49 hours a week. Oh, and by the way, 49 hours/week is the law there. So your objection about westerners not knowing about eastern cultures falls badly flat. Grow up and learn something.
Oh please. We have the same problem here. If we can't fix these problems here first, we have no right to insist they do it there.
This is up to the Chinese government, if they really want things to change, in a dictatorship, they can easily force that change. The courts are politically controlled. They execute people for doing things we consider to be a 5 year sentence. If they REALLY thought this was so bad, they would have stopped it. But the truth is that they don't. The laws there are a crock.
If workers can't work enough hours to make a good living and so quit, it may force Foxconn to pay them more to compensate or risk a high turnover and quality problems from the loss of trained labor. Or maybe not. Maybe it'll just hire more workers from the seemingly endless supply. So it could end up actually caring less about the welfare of its workers' families.
Comments
Disclosure: I'm an American.
amen! why don't we just raise prices on all goods manufactured outside U.S. so those idiots concerned about working conditions abroad are happy.
It is not about making workers abroad happy, it is about making them uncompetitive in a futile attempt to make jobs come back to US.
It is not about making workers abroad happy, it is about making them uncompetitive in a futile attempt to make jobs come back to US.
First, that's not going to happen (and who on earth wants it to?!?!
Second, why do you hate the Chinese people so much that you want to put them out of work and knock them off the ladder they're using to climb out of poverty?
First, that's not going to happen (and who on earth wants it to?!?!
Second, why do you hate the Chinese people so much that you want to put them out of work and knock them off the ladder they're using to climb out of poverty?
Have you ever heard about irony?
They can blame righteous Americans..
No, blame the rapidly growing set of socialist Americans that feel everyone needs to be forced to live by a set of government mandated rules rather than by personal choice.
Actually, we kind of do know what we're doing. There is such a thing as repetitive stress injury (RSI) that will occur if these people continue to work assembly lines 60+ hours/week. If you want your iPhone so cheap that you want workers in another country maimed for life, you are sub-human. There is nothing whatsoever stupid about cutting their time to 49 hours a week. Oh, and by the way, 49 hours/week is the law there. So your objection about westerners not knowing about eastern cultures falls badly flat. Grow up and learn something.
LOL!! Well, looks like it's Whiteman's Burden all over again.. all coming from the know-it-all condescending western liberals.
But the conditions are better now¡
Yes؟
They'll be able to employ more people now, too.
Have you ever heard about irony?
Yes. You?
Yes؟
They'll be able to employ more people now, too.
Oh dear.
Ah, the irony.
The unintended consequences that do-gooders leave behind never ceases to amaze me....
They really should just have an Apple employee there to run things so everything is fair.
That said, I'm even more disgusted by the commentors here who are saying that its none of our business. Nonsense. Its the ability of Chinese companies to exploit their workers (among all of the other 'externalities' that they are able to entice American companies with) that have decimated American manufacturing. Its in our interest to use every bit of leverage we have to force them in every way possible to improve not only labor conditions and wages, but pollution as well.
This is the best article and news I've seen in years.
Go Apple, even if it did take a bit of a kick in the pants.
Oh dear.
Read closely.
Here's a likely outcome: Apple's costs may actually fall, since there is less overtime (which is usually paid at >1x of standard wages)!
Ah, the irony.
The unintended consequences that do-gooders leave behind never ceases to amaze me....
Overtime is usually the least expensive time an employer pays for because it is a marginal cost, and other expenses increases little which more than compensates for the additional pay.
I actually some were foolish enough to except Foxconn to start paying them the minimum of the country/state they reside in.
If they can't allow people to work as many hours then you build more dorms and hire more people. We saw the number of people lining up. Of course, now you have more idle young adults and a lot more of them in a much more crowded space. Will these myopic westerners consider the dangers of that situation?
Like it or not, the situation in these countries is very different than it is here. These people can be hundreds of miles from their families, and even the wages they make are far higher than what they would make at home. So sure, many don't mind working what we would consider to be backbreaking hours. They're used to that.
If not in a factory, they would be working 12 hours a day on the farm for far less. But that's how developing countries move up into the developed world. It's only once they get there that people don't want to work hard anymore.
So here, people can't wait to finish their 8 hours and run home to do nothing of import. But there, they'd rather be working.
I keep saying that our standards are not theirs, and we have no right to try to make it so. So, safe working conditions, minimum wages and benefits, yes. But otherwise, we should leave them alone.
We look at Europe, and see some countries where working conditions are, from our viewpoint in the US, ridiculous. We think that it's one of the causes of their problems. They often get 8 weeks vacation, 6 weeks sick leave. Retire after 20 years, etc. they think we're barbarians because WE work too hard. So, it's all relative.
Let them work what they want. Sheese.
If Chinese law limits a work week to 49 hours then that should be respected, for better or worse.
I take no issue with the law being followed by I do take issue with those that wanted to see hours reduced for the benefit of the Foxconn workers. Are things really better for them if they make less money, have more free time between shifts in a factory town, and there are 25% more employees needed within the same space to take up the slack now created by a reduction of working hours? It's good for those workers that are trying to get into Foxconn, but I see issues for those already gainful employed.
How much of a weekly wage lose is it? If workers try to save up while working at Foxconn for 2 years how much longer will they have to work in order to save up the same amount?
Actually, we kind of do know what we're doing. There is such a thing as repetitive stress injury (RSI) that will occur if these people continue to work assembly lines 60+ hours/week. If you want your iPhone so cheap that you want workers in another country maimed for life, you are sub-human. There is nothing whatsoever stupid about cutting their time to 49 hours a week. Oh, and by the way, 49 hours/week is the law there. So your objection about westerners not knowing about eastern cultures falls badly flat. Grow up and learn something.
Oh please. We have the same problem here. If we can't fix these problems here first, we have no right to insist they do it there.
This is up to the Chinese government, if they really want things to change, in a dictatorship, they can easily force that change. The courts are politically controlled. They execute people for doing things we consider to be a 5 year sentence. If they REALLY thought this was so bad, they would have stopped it. But the truth is that they don't. The laws there are a crock.