It should be noted that Optus Australia proposes to, or at least is studying the roll-out of a 700MHz 4G network that will be compatible with the current iPad's 4G capabilities. Optus is Australia's second biggest mobile network operator.
Australia, like much of Europe and Asia, has little to no 4G coverage in most areas, so the notion that it's not compatible with 4G networks outside the US is almost certainly a transitory state. That said, the next model will almost certainly be out before 4G networks are significantly deployed outside of the US.
The new iPad. Not an original new iPad but an iPad as a new model. Also the new iPad is white. Not a true white as per the actual definition of what a white color is as there is no such thing as the color of white. But it is the closest resemblance to what we would consider white as a color to be. We hold no responsibility to what the definition of white is in connection to our iPad. Also black iPad should not be confused with a racial connection to the word black when thinking of a human being. All countries where the color black is explained as niegro should be understood as the color black as in reference to an iPad bezel color and has nothing to do with a persons skin color.
I am offended that Apple would sell white ipad's in a foreign country that has mostly yellow people. They should sell yellow iPads. Maybe Apple should change their color scheme per country.
Apple proposes refunds for Australian customers unhappy with '4G' iPad [u]
By Josh Ong
Published: 11:20 PM EST (08:20 PM PST)
In an effort to head off a lawsuit from Australia's consumer commission, Apple has proposed offering refunds to consumers in Australia who may have been misled into thinking that the new iPad would operate at 4G speeds in the country.
?it will email all Australian customers who bought the new iPad to offer them a refund, according to Reuters.
The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission warned on Tuesday that it planned to lodge a complaint against Apple over advertising for the third-generation iPad.
"The ACCC alleges that Apple's recent promotion of the 'new iPad with WiFi + 4G' is misleading because it represents to Australian consumers that the product 'iPad with WiFi + 4G' can, with a SIM card, connect to a 4G mobile data network in Australia, when this is not the case," the ACCC said in a statement.
An attorney representing Apple responded on Wednesday by revealing that the company is willing to offer refunds to Australian customers who expected 4G service when they purchased the new iPad, as noted by The Wall Street Journal.
According to the report, Apple senior counsel Paul Anastassiou said the company had also told the ACCC that it was willing to post disclaimers online and at retail locations informing customers that the iPad is incompatible with Australia's 4G networks.
And yet they, the ACCC, continued with the law suit.
It should be noted that Optus Australia proposes to, or at least is studying the roll-out of a 700MHz 4G network that will be compatible with the current iPad's 4G capabilities. Optus is Australia's second biggest mobile network operator.
The 700 in Australia is different to the 700 in the US. The good news is that Australia is aligning with Asia.
There's a nice diagram on the 8th page of this document, really easy explanation
Hopefully there will be devices that bridge those differences though soon enough - but right now even AT&T and Verizon have different 700Mhz 4G iPads!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka
And yet they, the ACCC, continued with the law suit.
4G standards are fractured enough that there'll be many 4G phones that will only work in one or 2 countries, in the beginning.
They really don't want every manufacturer to start marketing their "4G Xphones" with the explanation that it's not really 4G here, and then having consumers return their phones later.
And yet they, the ACCC, continued with the law suit.
Not so clear. Looks like this will be sorted in mediation of sorts. See:
The Federal Court has accepted an undertaking from Apple Pty Limited in response to an urgent application filed by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) earlier today.
The ACCC has alleged that the promotion of the "iPad with WiFi + 4G" by Apple Pty Limited and Apple Inc is misleading because it represents to Australian consumers that the product "iPad with WiFi + 4G" can, with a SIM card, connect to a 4G mobile data network in Australia, when this is not the case.
Today Apple Pty Ltd provided an undertaking to the Federal Court that until further order or hearing, Apple Pty Limited would as soon as is reasonably practicable and by no later than 5 April 2012:
display a statement that the “This product supports very fast cellular networks. It is not compatible with current Australian 4G LTE networks and WiMAX Networks” in its promotional materials, on its website and online store
distribute signage with the same wording to resellers to be displayed at points of sale
contact by email any persons for whom Apple Pty Limited has an email address and who have purchased the “iPad with WiFI + 4G” between 16 March and 28 March 2012 (including pre-orders prior to 16 March 2012) including statements to the effect that “This product supports very fast cellular networks. It is not compatible with current Australian 4G LTE networks and WiMAX Networks” and that such persons are entitled to return the product and request a refund within a timeframe specified in the email.
A directions hearing has been scheduled for 16 April 2012 at 9:30am. A mediation has been ordered for 18 April 2012. A hearing on liability has been set down commencing 2 May 2012.
The bizarre thing is that Apple and Telstra have not gone to advertise DC-HSPA+ as "4G". It would annoy some but that was a possible avenue, and DC-HSPA+ would have headed off a lot of this stuff. Apple still doesn't say anything about DC-HSPA+, maybe because it just doesn't want to change the name of WiFi + 4G because that's a monstrous undertaking now, and maybe it just wants to make the ACCC go away. That said, the sentence is clearer by Apple, and it seems some of those LTE graphics that may have been floating around have been nuked. Though "supports fast data networks but not 4G LTE and WiMax" can be even more confusing.
Apple Australia and Telstra should have gone to DC-HSPA+ and prove it as 4G so as to divert this gaffe. But the timeline was too short to act, probably... And maybe Telstra isn't able to reliably promise DC-HSPA+ coverage at this stage since it seems to be a stealth upgrade and it is focusing on 4G LTE.
You snooze, you lose, I guess. \
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander
I'm neither confused nor rolling my eyes. I like that Apple's principles have been understanding what people want and need, even when people SAY they want and need something else. People get fooled by marketing jargon all the time, people think that a device with 100 features MUST be better than a device with 50 features.
Apple understands what's actually important (mostly), and produces things that people will use effectively.
Now in terms of "Wifi + 4G", it really won't make any difference to people that the iPad isn't 4G. It's maximum speed is 42Mbps on Telstra 3G, with 6-18 Mbps being commonly reported. Our WiMax network (that is disappearing as it's rolling towards TDD-LTE) has historically been called "4G" too, but is slower than Telstra's latest 3G.
But the 4G term is very prominent in newspapers and marketing right now, being linked to the new networks here (in Australia) and never associated with DC-HSPA like AT&T is doing. I think Apple should use the terms commonly understood by consumers. And in fact they are not saying that DC-HSPA is 4G, they are saying the device IS 4G, just not Australian 4G. We're in Australia, so that's misleading.
No one was claiming they lied were they? Technically it does what it says it does. Have they been evasive or misleading about plainly stating the limitations? That's the assertions that have been made. Lying would be much more serious and few legitimate companies would go far nowadays. Listerine is the only one that I can think of as a possible candidate in the past few years.
No one was claiming they lied were they? Technically it does what it says it does. Have they been evasive or misleading about plainly stating the limitations? That's the assertions that have been made. Lying would be much more serious and few legitimate companies would go far nowadays. Listerine is the only one that I can think of as a possible candidate in the past few years.
Some people have a very loose definition of lying. It's seen here all the time with mistakes called lies, inadvertant misstatements called lies, or factually correct but incomplete statements called lies too. I've even seen just the vague claim "all your lies" bandied about with nothing specific attached to it. I think that for some any statement they personally disagree or don't like is considered a lie.\
if in doubt... if it is not listed on the box it is not supported... (referring to printers and such)
but, in apples case this is not true because they don't list what they support on the box... thus the problem Australia has with this... and just reading the tech. spec on the web site is not acceptable.
while wish i lived in australia (for the weather), it seems that a geek is better served living in the northern hemisphere... such as canada and usa... but ironically, soon for internet speed will be better in australia, than 95% percent of canada and usa.
As with nearly every other Apple "problem", it's a function of fandroid tunnel vision; and if you bitch long enough, someone will think you've discovered a problem.
They never advertised 4G LTE for other countries, clearly marked on every page that 4G LTE only worked in the US and Canada. The problem was that it said 4G... and it still does.
I ran the Macworld article suppporting my case in google translation tool and below you can see the result. It states that Apple admits that it was a mistake stating that 4G in Sweden was supported on the new iPad. See the translation (where google actually translates Ipad in Swedish to iPhone in English):
Apple: No 4g in Sweden
Joel Westerholm
Anna Mueller
Apple confirms that the new iPhone will not be able to handle 4g in Sweden even though it was promised on the Swedish site. "It was a mistake," says Apple.
Apple's Swedish press contact told Telekom Online that the new iPhone does not support 4G (LTE) in Sweden.
Until yesterday morning, it was Apple's Swedish site that 4G will be supported by Vodafone, Three, Telia and Tele second
- It was a mistake, says Petter Arnstedt, press officer at Apple in Sweden, to Telekom Online.
The reason is that the new iPhone does not handle the frequencies used for 4G in Sweden. It handles only lte in the bands 2.1 GHz and 700 MHz. Europe uses the 2.6 gigahertz and 800 megahertz. The bands that Apple is currently occupied by television and 3G.
The text that promised to 4g would work in Sweden was up on Apple's Swedish web notified until yesterday afternoon. But after MacWorld wrote about the problem of frequencies changed the text on the Apple site.
In Sweden, one could use the new iPhone to surf in 3G with a maximum of 42 megabits per second, if the mobile network technology supports HSPA + dc.
When MacWorld reaches Petter Arnstedt he has no further comment, but refers to what is in the Telecom Online.
Comments
Australia, like much of Europe and Asia, has little to no 4G coverage in most areas, so the notion that it's not compatible with 4G networks outside the US is almost certainly a transitory state. That said, the next model will almost certainly be out before 4G networks are significantly deployed outside of the US.
The new iPad. Not an original new iPad but an iPad as a new model. Also the new iPad is white. Not a true white as per the actual definition of what a white color is as there is no such thing as the color of white. But it is the closest resemblance to what we would consider white as a color to be. We hold no responsibility to what the definition of white is in connection to our iPad. Also black iPad should not be confused with a racial connection to the word black when thinking of a human being. All countries where the color black is explained as niegro should be understood as the color black as in reference to an iPad bezel color and has nothing to do with a persons skin color.
I am offended that Apple would sell white ipad's in a foreign country that has mostly yellow people. They should sell yellow iPads. Maybe Apple should change their color scheme per country.
Troll!!!!!!
I assumed Apple made the changes on their own. I didn't realize they had already been ordered by a court.
AppleInsider reported on Tuesday the 27 that
Apple proposes refunds for Australian customers unhappy with '4G' iPad [u]
By Josh Ong
Published: 11:20 PM EST (08:20 PM PST)
In an effort to head off a lawsuit from Australia's consumer commission, Apple has proposed offering refunds to consumers in Australia who may have been misled into thinking that the new iPad would operate at 4G speeds in the country.
?it will email all Australian customers who bought the new iPad to offer them a refund, according to Reuters.
The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission warned on Tuesday that it planned to lodge a complaint against Apple over advertising for the third-generation iPad.
"The ACCC alleges that Apple's recent promotion of the 'new iPad with WiFi + 4G' is misleading because it represents to Australian consumers that the product 'iPad with WiFi + 4G' can, with a SIM card, connect to a 4G mobile data network in Australia, when this is not the case," the ACCC said in a statement.
An attorney representing Apple responded on Wednesday by revealing that the company is willing to offer refunds to Australian customers who expected 4G service when they purchased the new iPad, as noted by The Wall Street Journal.
According to the report, Apple senior counsel Paul Anastassiou said the company had also told the ACCC that it was willing to post disclaimers online and at retail locations informing customers that the iPad is incompatible with Australia's 4G networks.
And yet they, the ACCC, continued with the law suit.
It should be noted that Optus Australia proposes to, or at least is studying the roll-out of a 700MHz 4G network that will be compatible with the current iPad's 4G capabilities. Optus is Australia's second biggest mobile network operator.
The 700 in Australia is different to the 700 in the US. The good news is that Australia is aligning with Asia.
There's a nice diagram on the 8th page of this document, really easy explanation
http://www.rsm.govt.nz/cms/pdf-libra...esentation.pdf
Hopefully there will be devices that bridge those differences though soon enough - but right now even AT&T and Verizon have different 700Mhz 4G iPads!
And yet they, the ACCC, continued with the law suit.
4G standards are fractured enough that there'll be many 4G phones that will only work in one or 2 countries, in the beginning.
They really don't want every manufacturer to start marketing their "4G Xphones" with the explanation that it's not really 4G here, and then having consumers return their phones later.
http://m.cnet.com.au/ipad-lte-issue-...-339333528.htm
Note also that our 700mhz is due for a 2015 release... A little while off!
And yet they, the ACCC, continued with the law suit.
Not so clear. Looks like this will be sorted in mediation of sorts. See:
The Federal Court has accepted an undertaking from Apple Pty Limited in response to an urgent application filed by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) earlier today.
The ACCC has alleged that the promotion of the "iPad with WiFi + 4G" by Apple Pty Limited and Apple Inc is misleading because it represents to Australian consumers that the product "iPad with WiFi + 4G" can, with a SIM card, connect to a 4G mobile data network in Australia, when this is not the case.
Today Apple Pty Ltd provided an undertaking to the Federal Court that until further order or hearing, Apple Pty Limited would as soon as is reasonably practicable and by no later than 5 April 2012:
display a statement that the “This product supports very fast cellular networks. It is not compatible with current Australian 4G LTE networks and WiMAX Networks” in its promotional materials, on its website and online store
distribute signage with the same wording to resellers to be displayed at points of sale
contact by email any persons for whom Apple Pty Limited has an email address and who have purchased the “iPad with WiFI + 4G” between 16 March and 28 March 2012 (including pre-orders prior to 16 March 2012) including statements to the effect that “This product supports very fast cellular networks. It is not compatible with current Australian 4G LTE networks and WiMAX Networks” and that such persons are entitled to return the product and request a refund within a timeframe specified in the email.
A directions hearing has been scheduled for 16 April 2012 at 9:30am. A mediation has been ordered for 18 April 2012. A hearing on liability has been set down commencing 2 May 2012.
Release # NR 059/12
Issued: 28th March 2012
http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index...fromItemId/142
Apple Australia and Telstra should have gone to DC-HSPA+ and prove it as 4G so as to divert this gaffe. But the timeline was too short to act, probably... And maybe Telstra isn't able to reliably promise DC-HSPA+ coverage at this stage since it seems to be a stealth upgrade and it is focusing on 4G LTE.
You snooze, you lose, I guess.
I'm neither confused nor rolling my eyes. I like that Apple's principles have been understanding what people want and need, even when people SAY they want and need something else. People get fooled by marketing jargon all the time, people think that a device with 100 features MUST be better than a device with 50 features.
Apple understands what's actually important (mostly), and produces things that people will use effectively.
Now in terms of "Wifi + 4G", it really won't make any difference to people that the iPad isn't 4G. It's maximum speed is 42Mbps on Telstra 3G, with 6-18 Mbps being commonly reported. Our WiMax network (that is disappearing as it's rolling towards TDD-LTE) has historically been called "4G" too, but is slower than Telstra's latest 3G.
But the 4G term is very prominent in newspapers and marketing right now, being linked to the new networks here (in Australia) and never associated with DC-HSPA like AT&T is doing. I think Apple should use the terms commonly understood by consumers. And in fact they are not saying that DC-HSPA is 4G, they are saying the device IS 4G, just not Australian 4G. We're in Australia, so that's misleading.
Not so clear. Looks like this will be sorted in mediation of sorts
Apply hasn't lied?
Well worth the read.
Apply hasn't lied?
Well worth the read.
No one was claiming they lied were they? Technically it does what it says it does. Have they been evasive or misleading about plainly stating the limitations? That's the assertions that have been made. Lying would be much more serious and few legitimate companies would go far nowadays. Listerine is the only one that I can think of as a possible candidate in the past few years.
No one was claiming they lied were they? Technically it does what it says it does. Have they been evasive or misleading about plainly stating the limitations? That's the assertions that have been made. Lying would be much more serious and few legitimate companies would go far nowadays. Listerine is the only one that I can think of as a possible candidate in the past few years.
No?
Take your pick.
but, in apples case this is not true because they don't list what they support on the box... thus the problem Australia has with this... and just reading the tech. spec on the web site is not acceptable.
while wish i lived in australia (for the weather), it seems that a geek is better served living in the northern hemisphere... such as canada and usa... but ironically, soon for internet speed will be better in australia, than 95% percent of canada and usa.
Cheers
They never advertised 4G LTE for other countries, clearly marked on every page that 4G LTE only worked in the US and Canada. The problem was that it said 4G... and it still does.
I ran the Macworld article suppporting my case in google translation tool and below you can see the result. It states that Apple admits that it was a mistake stating that 4G in Sweden was supported on the new iPad. See the translation (where google actually translates Ipad in Swedish to iPhone in English):
Apple: No 4g in Sweden
Joel Westerholm
Anna Mueller
Apple confirms that the new iPhone will not be able to handle 4g in Sweden even though it was promised on the Swedish site. "It was a mistake," says Apple.
Apple's Swedish press contact told Telekom Online that the new iPhone does not support 4G (LTE) in Sweden.
Until yesterday morning, it was Apple's Swedish site that 4G will be supported by Vodafone, Three, Telia and Tele second
- It was a mistake, says Petter Arnstedt, press officer at Apple in Sweden, to Telekom Online.
The reason is that the new iPhone does not handle the frequencies used for 4G in Sweden. It handles only lte in the bands 2.1 GHz and 700 MHz. Europe uses the 2.6 gigahertz and 800 megahertz. The bands that Apple is currently occupied by television and 3G.
The text that promised to 4g would work in Sweden was up on Apple's Swedish web notified until yesterday afternoon. But after MacWorld wrote about the problem of frequencies changed the text on the Apple site.
In Sweden, one could use the new iPhone to surf in 3G with a maximum of 42 megabits per second, if the mobile network technology supports HSPA + dc.
When MacWorld reaches Petter Arnstedt he has no further comment, but refers to what is in the Telecom Online.