Nor for that matter any other company trying to turn things around economy wise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorryrider
I worked at an apple store... they work you to death... like the user said you can quite...I would say stay and become a union... Then the entire squeeze will stop... That's how retail workers, change Apple
Frankly this is the most disgusting post yet in this thread and highlights how unions have become the refuge of the lazy and shiftless. Unions came about and where extremely popular because they addressed real issues in the work place.
All apple is doing here is assuring coverage on their high traffic days, from all appearances they aren't even asking for more than 40 hours. If you think this justifies a union then you are grossly misinformed. Unions work best supporting workers who actually want to work, not the guy looking for someone to cover his backside while he slides through the day.
Or just go work at the Microsoft Store across the street... It's just like the Apple Store, only it's never busy in there, so you can take off every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday.
Right?
The Microsoft store across from the apple store at the valleyfair Santa Clara store has litterally 5 employees in the store and no customers most of the time hahah. Walk into the apple store there's 10x the customers and workers.
If you want to know the true meaning of hell, go ahead and work for the Gap or any apparel retail store.
You fold clothes on the floor. You fold clothes in the stockroom. You watch store managers get arrested on a regular basis for stealing money. You pretend to be interested in a product you know everyone else is selling with better quality. You do this for 40 or more hours a week, week after week to make ends meet.
Rinse. Wash. Repeat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorryrider
I worked at an apple store... they work you to death... like the user said you can quite...I would say stay and become a union... Then the entire squeeze will stop... That's how retail workers, change Apple
I have a simple question for everybody that thinks this is a bad development, how would you expect for Apple to cover weekend needs? It isn't like this is a request for overtime either, which might be the case during holidays or promotions.
Beyond that this sort of scheduling actually works out well for many people as it gives them a day in the week to schedule other business and personal issues. It is all a matter of perspective and ones ability to turn a schedule into a positive.
Yep - this is only showing up as "news" because it's Apple. The practice is making employees work weekend hours is common at all stores and restaurants. I know a guy who is an assistant manager at one of the NYC stores and his experience has been nothing but great. He used to work for a small chain in operations and now working retail has had a better overall experience.
Apple looks out for it's employees better than many chains. And I agree with others - yes, the stores are generally small and packed, but it hasn't been a negative for my shopping experience. I generally know what I'm going in for and have been able to execute my shopping with little trouble, even when the store I frequent is packed.
Comparing that to shopping at Target or Best Buy - there is no comparison. The Best Buy employees know less about Apple, or just come off like they don't care one way or the other. Their job is to move product and that's how it comes across. I get that, but I don't have to either like it or put up with it - and I don't.
I know where Apple could do better - figuring out a way to better serve enterprise customers. A business partner I work with went to a store to meet with the business services manager (who I got connected to through my local store business manager). His experience with the manager was great - but they had to try to talk through corporate needs, in the store, at a spot next to a training session of loud people. I'm not sure what the solution is - my business partner suggested meeting at his office, but then he couldn't try things out like he can in the store. I wonder if having a walled-off section makes sense, for those times when having a little privacy makes sense?
Sounds reasonable to me. People should be glad that they have jobs.
If anybody doesn't like it, then quit.
Some will. I actually expect the result of this to be a decrease in service levels at the Apple Stores. Several students over on Mac Rumors pointed out that 16 hours/week is all they are able to fit into their school schedules. The 24 hours/week requirement put in place will preclude them from being able to continue at the Apple Stores. That means a brain drain, as I assure you the college students are brighter and more in tune with Apple products than someone who has 24+ hours in their schedule because they have nothing else going on.
Let me make this brief: Stricter employers = less happy employees and less service. It's universally demonstrable. Your "let them quit' edict helps nobody. Grow up and start thinking.
Because the {union} fee is small compared to the benefit received?
Like most of your generalizations, this one is not correct.
I quit a union job many years ago in a retail store. After serving out my probationary period, I was told that to become a regular employee, I had to join the union. They were going to take a few percent of my salary. In return, I'd get a union card - and nothing else. I'd still be working for minimum wage. I'd still have no health insurance. I'd still not get any educational benefits. Basically, minimum wage, no other benefits, but the union got to keep a few percent of my pay.
Since then, I've had only non-union employees working for me. In every case, our pay and benefits were competitive with the union workers down the street. The difference is that the employee got to keep his full salary and was able to be rewarded for his performance, not what some rich union boss thought he should earn.
People need to know their place and their true value.
Retail workers are a dime a dozen.
But 'their true value' varies. For Apple, their retail stores are not like the 'dime a dozen' other retail chains out there. They are a cut above. The staff at Apple store are the outward face of Apple. Generally they are also the picture example of what customer facing retail staff should be like - knowledgable, keen, polite, not pushy.
Apple needs to go out of its way to ensure that there retail staff is happy and love their work. Treating them like cheap labor, lesser beings, and dime dozen kids, is not the way to go and will serve nobody well - least of all Apple.
But 'their true value' varies. For Apple, their retail stores are not like the 'dime a dozen' other retail chains out there. They are a cut above. The staff at Apple store are the outward face of Apple. Generally they are also the picture example of what customer facing retail staff should be like - knowledgable, keen, polite, not pushy.
Apple needs to go out of its way to ensure that there retail staff is happy and love their work. Treating them like cheap labor, lesser beings, and dime dozen kids, is not the way to go and will serve nobody well - least of all Apple.
I agree that Apple retail store employees are a cut above other retail store employees.
Hire more people. Don't need an MBA to figure this out. Duh!
With Apple's global market share, it should not be difficult to find people who are already somewhat familiar with Apple's products. Some training needed.
Don't be cheap. Spend some of that $100 billion. Clearly unhappy workers make for bad customer experience.
It is amazing how so many people are able to tell others how to spend the others money.
With unemployment around 8%, I am sure there are many that will step into the vacated jobs.
As Apple improves working conditions in Chinese factories, they move their retail employees toward what could eventually be a sweatshop model.
Give me a break.
Having spent quite of few of my high school and college years working retail, the Apple Store would be a GREAT place to work. The employees there seem to have it much easier than most of the surrounding stores. What Apple is asking for is not unreasonable - and is presumably intended to improve customer service. They are trying to weed out the "I only want to work a few hours a week" employees - and those employees are probably not (on average) as good as the ones who work enough hours to become knowledgable.
Exactly! The San Francisco Bay Area could double the size of virtually every store (especially in the South Bay) and double the number of stores.
I remember visiting the Valley Fair Mall Apple Store to purchase a G4 iMac. Fantastic shopping experience. The Valley Fair Mall Apple Store is now one of the worst shopping experiences imaginable. Every hour of every day of every week looks like last minute shopping for Christmas and can take 5 minutes just to walk to the Genius Bar.
The Short Hills Mall Apple Store, on a Sunday, 45 minutes before closing, looks exactly like this - 300+ crazed, spoiled, over-privileged white criminal a**holes (sorry George Carlin, but that line speaks the truth!) packed like sardines into a typical "mall sized" Apple Store. There's barely any room left for the workers, I actually do feel bad for them!
And this is why outsourcing is so popular. People elsewhere are willing to work whatever to have a paycheck. Here, people complain because they are expected to work for their check. You want to get paid then work what you're told or leave.
One truth in business is that if you have to ask for a raise, you probably don't deserve it. If you don't like a job, then leave it. Don't take a job so you can be paid to complain about it. This is exactly what our young workforce today is consisting of and I see no improvements coming any time soon.
This isn't china. There are labor laws in this country.
Forty hours a week is enough. People need weekends off to spend time with their families and remember why we do what we do.
You'll find out what I mean when you're old enough to go to work someday.
As a former sales manager for a national chain, I was required to be in the store Friday and Saturday. When Sunday shopping became legal here, we were expected to be in store Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
I knew the expectations, and so did everyone else who wanted those positions. I chose to leave just before we opened Sundays as I felt the price to pay was too high.Since we were on Salary + bonus, there were no hourly restrictions as to how many hours we'd work. Most managers would work 70+ hours during the Christmas rush.
Comments
I worked at an apple store... they work you to death... like the user said you can quite...I would say stay and become a union... Then the entire squeeze will stop... That's how retail workers, change Apple
Frankly this is the most disgusting post yet in this thread and highlights how unions have become the refuge of the lazy and shiftless. Unions came about and where extremely popular because they addressed real issues in the work place.
All apple is doing here is assuring coverage on their high traffic days, from all appearances they aren't even asking for more than 40 hours. If you think this justifies a union then you are grossly misinformed. Unions work best supporting workers who actually want to work, not the guy looking for someone to cover his backside while he slides through the day.
I agree! This is an unfortunate reality for people at many large corporations
People need to know their place and their true value.
Retail workers are a dime a dozen.
Or just go work at the Microsoft Store across the street... It's just like the Apple Store, only it's never busy in there, so you can take off every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday.
Right?
The Microsoft store across from the apple store at the valleyfair Santa Clara store has litterally 5 employees in the store and no customers most of the time hahah. Walk into the apple store there's 10x the customers and workers.
You fold clothes on the floor. You fold clothes in the stockroom. You watch store managers get arrested on a regular basis for stealing money. You pretend to be interested in a product you know everyone else is selling with better quality. You do this for 40 or more hours a week, week after week to make ends meet.
Rinse. Wash. Repeat.
I worked at an apple store... they work you to death... like the user said you can quite...I would say stay and become a union... Then the entire squeeze will stop... That's how retail workers, change Apple
Beyond that this sort of scheduling actually works out well for many people as it gives them a day in the week to schedule other business and personal issues. It is all a matter of perspective and ones ability to turn a schedule into a positive.
Apple looks out for it's employees better than many chains. And I agree with others - yes, the stores are generally small and packed, but it hasn't been a negative for my shopping experience. I generally know what I'm going in for and have been able to execute my shopping with little trouble, even when the store I frequent is packed.
Comparing that to shopping at Target or Best Buy - there is no comparison. The Best Buy employees know less about Apple, or just come off like they don't care one way or the other. Their job is to move product and that's how it comes across. I get that, but I don't have to either like it or put up with it - and I don't.
I know where Apple could do better - figuring out a way to better serve enterprise customers. A business partner I work with went to a store to meet with the business services manager (who I got connected to through my local store business manager). His experience with the manager was great - but they had to try to talk through corporate needs, in the store, at a spot next to a training session of loud people. I'm not sure what the solution is - my business partner suggested meeting at his office, but then he couldn't try things out like he can in the store. I wonder if having a walled-off section makes sense, for those times when having a little privacy makes sense?
Sounds reasonable to me. People should be glad that they have jobs.
If anybody doesn't like it, then quit.
Some will. I actually expect the result of this to be a decrease in service levels at the Apple Stores. Several students over on Mac Rumors pointed out that 16 hours/week is all they are able to fit into their school schedules. The 24 hours/week requirement put in place will preclude them from being able to continue at the Apple Stores. That means a brain drain, as I assure you the college students are brighter and more in tune with Apple products than someone who has 24+ hours in their schedule because they have nothing else going on.
Let me make this brief: Stricter employers = less happy employees and less service. It's universally demonstrable. Your "let them quit' edict helps nobody. Grow up and start thinking.
I have a simple question for everybody that thinks this is a bad development, how would you expect for Apple to cover weekend needs?
It's called "hiring". Look it up.
Because the {union} fee is small compared to the benefit received?
Like most of your generalizations, this one is not correct.
I quit a union job many years ago in a retail store. After serving out my probationary period, I was told that to become a regular employee, I had to join the union. They were going to take a few percent of my salary. In return, I'd get a union card - and nothing else. I'd still be working for minimum wage. I'd still have no health insurance. I'd still not get any educational benefits. Basically, minimum wage, no other benefits, but the union got to keep a few percent of my pay.
Since then, I've had only non-union employees working for me. In every case, our pay and benefits were competitive with the union workers down the street. The difference is that the employee got to keep his full salary and was able to be rewarded for his performance, not what some rich union boss thought he should earn.
People need to know their place
....said the troll.
Your "let them quit' edict helps nobody.
I disagree. I believe that Apple retail store jobs are in high demand, so it won't be a problem to get other workers if a few quit.
As I previously stated, retail employees shouldn't think too highly of themselves, in my opinion.
People need to know their place and their true value.
Retail workers are a dime a dozen.
But 'their true value' varies. For Apple, their retail stores are not like the 'dime a dozen' other retail chains out there. They are a cut above. The staff at Apple store are the outward face of Apple. Generally they are also the picture example of what customer facing retail staff should be like - knowledgable, keen, polite, not pushy.
Apple needs to go out of its way to ensure that there retail staff is happy and love their work. Treating them like cheap labor, lesser beings, and dime dozen kids, is not the way to go and will serve nobody well - least of all Apple.
But 'their true value' varies. For Apple, their retail stores are not like the 'dime a dozen' other retail chains out there. They are a cut above. The staff at Apple store are the outward face of Apple. Generally they are also the picture example of what customer facing retail staff should be like - knowledgable, keen, polite, not pushy.
Apple needs to go out of its way to ensure that there retail staff is happy and love their work. Treating them like cheap labor, lesser beings, and dime dozen kids, is not the way to go and will serve nobody well - least of all Apple.
I agree that Apple retail store employees are a cut above other retail store employees.
Hire more people. Don't need an MBA to figure this out. Duh!
With Apple's global market share, it should not be difficult to find people who are already somewhat familiar with Apple's products. Some training needed.
Don't be cheap. Spend some of that $100 billion. Clearly unhappy workers make for bad customer experience.
It is amazing how so many people are able to tell others how to spend the others money.
With unemployment around 8%, I am sure there are many that will step into the vacated jobs.
Forty hours a week is enough. People need weekends off to spend time with their families and remember why we do what we do.
They are not requiring people to work more than 40 hours per week. Try reading the story again after a cup of coffee or something.
-kpluck
As Apple improves working conditions in Chinese factories, they move their retail employees toward what could eventually be a sweatshop model.
Give me a break.
Having spent quite of few of my high school and college years working retail, the Apple Store would be a GREAT place to work. The employees there seem to have it much easier than most of the surrounding stores. What Apple is asking for is not unreasonable - and is presumably intended to improve customer service. They are trying to weed out the "I only want to work a few hours a week" employees - and those employees are probably not (on average) as good as the ones who work enough hours to become knowledgable.
Exactly! The San Francisco Bay Area could double the size of virtually every store (especially in the South Bay) and double the number of stores.
I remember visiting the Valley Fair Mall Apple Store to purchase a G4 iMac. Fantastic shopping experience. The Valley Fair Mall Apple Store is now one of the worst shopping experiences imaginable. Every hour of every day of every week looks like last minute shopping for Christmas and can take 5 minutes just to walk to the Genius Bar.
The Short Hills Mall Apple Store, on a Sunday, 45 minutes before closing, looks exactly like this - 300+ crazed, spoiled, over-privileged white criminal a**holes (sorry George Carlin, but that line speaks the truth!) packed like sardines into a typical "mall sized" Apple Store. There's barely any room left for the workers, I actually do feel bad for them!
One truth in business is that if you have to ask for a raise, you probably don't deserve it. If you don't like a job, then leave it. Don't take a job so you can be paid to complain about it. This is exactly what our young workforce today is consisting of and I see no improvements coming any time soon.
This isn't china. There are labor laws in this country.
Forty hours a week is enough. People need weekends off to spend time with their families and remember why we do what we do.
You'll find out what I mean when you're old enough to go to work someday.
As a former sales manager for a national chain, I was required to be in the store Friday and Saturday. When Sunday shopping became legal here, we were expected to be in store Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
I knew the expectations, and so did everyone else who wanted those positions. I chose to leave just before we opened Sundays as I felt the price to pay was too high.Since we were on Salary + bonus, there were no hourly restrictions as to how many hours we'd work. Most managers would work 70+ hours during the Christmas rush.