Apple rumored to mass produce new 15" MacBook Pro in April, 13" in June

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  • mcarlingmcarling Posts: 1,105member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Automaticftp View Post


    If so, I'd never buy one. Not having the option to upgrade RAM and HD after purchase are instant disqualifiers for me.



    Then starting a few years from now, you'll never again be able to buy a new computer. You'll be stuck with pre-2015 computers for the rest of your life.
  • wizard69wizard69 Posts: 11,836member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigpics View Post


    I love this old chestnut. Another oft-repeated assertion totally lacking context.



    Maybe it wasn't well stated, but if you are buying value and longevity a laptop isn't your best choice.

    Quote:



    First, it assumes that everyone who needs more than an iPad - or even more than a base model 11.6" MB Air - for their work (or their other digital passions) always needs the latest, greatest, most tricked out desktop that exists this very moment.



    I'm not sure where you got that idea from at all. If anything desktops are an even better value when purchased as low end solutions.

    Quote:



    When in fact there are a range of people generally still bound mostly to desktops for reasons that include screen real estate, local storage, other peripherals (like the soon to be gone ODD's in all Apple notebooks) - and yes, horsepower for tasks that are more practical and productive with a more powerful computer. But they're not all rendering hours of complex compositing on full-length HD Video projects.



    All of which can done better and more economically via a desktop. I think you are missing my point, laptops are often a poor choice for portability and as a. Desktop replacement. Obviously many do need a portable computer that effectively replaces a desktop, but the vast majority of laptop buyers really don't need that portability or would be better severed by the likes of an iPad.

    Quote:



    Second, let's add a few terms to your sentence to make a point. I.e., here's a patently untrue statement in the same form: "I've yet to see a 2012, top of the line laptop that can realistically replace a good 2010 desktop and I'm pretty much convinced that it can never happen."



    So putting words in my mouth is the only way you can argue your point.

    Quote:



    Actually, this not only happens routinely, as witnessed by the number of folks who no longer have desktops at all, since the latest notebooks meet their needs, but also, technology happens at different rates for different components.



    Most of those people did not "need" those laptops. IPad is in many ways realigning people's thoughts about what they need in the way of portability and the compromises that come with laptops.

    Quote:



    The combo of the latest MB Pro and the 27" TB monitor has a screen that's going to be sweet and more than adequate for 95%+ of users for years - and ditto for ODD's, Ext. HDD's (and SSD's), printers, scanners, etc, while the CPU and the rest of the chip and motherboard bits are the parts that evolve so quickly (and for notebooks, hopefully, battery technology).



    You are missing the point entirely, you seem to have zeroed in on the idea that this is a performance discussion, frankly it is nothing of the sort. It is about value for the money, maintainability, flexibility, ergonomics and other factors. Laptops fail on all of these points when put up against a desktop.

    Quote:

    So third, and I'm fairly sure this is Apple's marketing notion as well, the combo of the TB monitor and MBP are going to bring in more revenue upfront (and cost us a premium, natch), but then, we get to have a) the advantages of a powerful-enough traveling computer and b) a desktop that's equivalent to the best desktop from 1-3 years earlier - at the cost of upgrading the just the notebook piece every few years.



    At this point I can buy a decent desktop, run and maintain it for years and instead buy an iPad every two years. It is a far better arrangement of hardware.

    Quote:

    And for those who currently need a desktop and a notebook, the cost of a MacBook + iMac is higher - and both will have obsolescent electronics in two years - neither with an upgrade path other than the replacement of both!



    OK so now you are supporting my point that laptops really can't replace desktops.

    Quote:





    The latest iMacs are sweet machines - and a perfect example of a system which a) won't travel in your briefcase, and b) will still have a great screen and plenty of storage when it's time to replace it. So the solution is to simply replace the CPU - which the Thunderbolt equipped MB Pros allow.



    You are extremely confused here.

    Quote:



    As Jobs said, there will still be a "truck" business for a good long while, and Apple's in it. But even for most power users, a Ford F150 will meet their needs and only a few will need huge semi-trucks like MB Pros. Especially when a new pickup - courtesy of Moore's Law - will do the haul of a few year old semi.



    You are all over the map here.

    Quote:



    Now you're contradicting yourself, at least mildly.



    Me? Have you read your post. You basically have pointed out why I see laptops as bad values and since the iMac is a laptop disquieted as a desktop why that machine sucks too! Thanks for the help.

    Quote:



    Do you really think the only machines people will need on the road in just two years will be iPad class? Arm's not going to get that good that fast, and 9.7" won't always cut it. I mean, if I'm going out to the coffeeshop, my iPad's plenty of computing power. But if I'm going on a three day business trip that's going to involve a lot of productivity work or on a two week vacation, I want (and neeed) a MacBook Pro.



    Nope I never said that. Rather for many it is a far better solution. In any event it comes back to my point, laptops are a poor mobility choice as are they a poor desktop replacement.

    Quote:



    We're in the middle of MULTIPLE transitions here - i.e., desktop to notebook, notebook to iPad, dumb phone to smart phone - and we'll ALWAYS be in the middle of multiple transitions. So the question is the best proximal solution to manage those at any time - both from Apple's point of view as a company and from ours as users.



    With transitions comes reevaluation of accepted practice.

    Quote:



    Sure, there's going to be roll-up screens, total voice interfaces and who knows what down the road - and today's iPads and iPhones will seem quaint looking back - but during the current transition deeper into the "post-PC" era - the combo of a TB-equipped pro-level notebook and a set of TB peripherals is going to be a great solution for many. Even if the great majority of those users will also have iPads and iPhones.



    Laptops will quickly end being seen as a waste of money for many common uses. This will happen much faster than you think. This isn't to discount many professional needs for laptops which will not go away. Rather this transition will have people rethinking the wisdom of buying laptops for their needs.
  • winterwinter Posts: 1,238member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    In his vision, it's still pushing a (nonexistent right now) retina display, so you'd want butterfish graphics.



    STOP AUTO-CORRECTING 'BETTER-ISH' TO BUTTERFISH, MOUNTAIN LION!



    http://i41.tinypic.com/1491u6a.jpg <--- Here is the Butterfish courtesy of Wikipedia.



    Now here is the question and this mainly goes to TS and wizard. It's a bit off topic though I think I can ask it here.



    Assuming Apple keeps the mini for the foreseeable future and I hope they do... how long will they keep the HDMI port or better yet, how long should they?



    Haswell? Rockwell? Beyond?



    Even though I love the MacBook Pro. Ever since going from my netbook to the mini, I love the idea of having my keyboard separate from my display which I have not had since having an ancient Gateway desktop that I disposed of in 2007.



    If I was given a new Ivy Bridge MacBook Pro, I would love it and treasure it. That being said, I just love the current Mini design.
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 40,857member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Winter View Post


    Assuming Apple keeps the mini for the foreseeable future and I hope they do? how long will they keep the HDMI port or better yet, how long should they?



    Depends on how long people still use one as a HTPC or projected computer.



    Apple has a smooth line upward on their boxes now: Apple TV?>Mac Mini?>iMac?>Mac Pro



    This is above the guidance upward on their handheld devices.



    iPod touch?>iPhone+iPad?>Apple TV.



    You get the iPod touch, you love it, you get the iPad because it's more fully-featured, you get an Apple TV with which you project your iPad to your television, and then you start to want a full Mac experience on a larger screen.



    So you get a Mac Mini and swap the Apple TV. And then you get an iMac.
  • winterwinter Posts: 1,238member
    My fault, I should have also included the following question. Will I have to switch to Thunderbolt anytime soon and buy an Apple monitor do you think? Is HDMI kind of dead in the water?
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 40,857member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Winter View Post


    My fault, I should have also included the following question. Will I have to switch to Thunderbolt anytime soon and buy an Apple monitor do you think? Is HDMI kind of dead in the water?



    Oh, you wouldn't have to do that anyway. Thunderbolt has adapters for everything.
  • hmmhmm Posts: 3,387member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mcarling View Post


    That ranks right up there with:

    - The automobile can never replace the horse for personal transportation.

    - Mobile phones can never replace fixed land-line phones.

    - Carbon tennis rackets can never replace wood.

    - Fountain pens can never replace quill pens.

    - The electric lightbulb can never replace gas lamps.

    - Radial tires can never replace bias-ply tires.

    - Jet aircraft can never replace propeller aircraft.

    - English can never replace French as the international language.

    - Packet-switched networks can never replace circuit-switched networks.



    ... except that the other predictions were all made before they were falsified. Now we have someone making a prediction that has already been falsified.



    It must be April Fool's Day.



    I think we can agree ipads are gaining popularity. The question is how users that require something beyond that capability in terms of raw performance or other functionality will be addressed a few years from today.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigpics View Post




    So third, and I'm fairly sure this is Apple's marketing notion as well, the combo of the TB monitor and MBP are going to bring in more revenue upfront (and cost us a premium, natch), but then, we get to have a) the advantages of a powerful-enough traveling computer and b) a desktop that's equivalent to the best desktop from 1-3 years earlier - at the cost of upgrading the just the notebook piece every few years.




    If the ipad becomes the prime choice for portability reasons (although I really liked Sony's April fools joke) what complements it? I'm saying that the notebook form factor is 100% pointless if you don't take it with you. This isn't the argument of kill anything that doesn't move millions per quarter, which is how most people extrapolate Apple's strategy. It's more a question of where you see things. If the previous portable choice becomes a stationary machine, should it retain a similar design? At that point an updated mini with the TB display could be a better option (even though I think I think the TB display could see a few improvements, there are some things they did exceptionally well on it).



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Winter View Post


    http://i41.tinypic.com/1491u6a.jpg <--- Here is the Butterfish courtesy of Wikipedia.



    That fish makes me want an aquarium. I thought of getting a pet a while ago, although I wasn't sure if it should be a frog or a turtle. Chameleons are cool, but they don't live very long.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Winter View Post


    If I was given a new Ivy Bridge MacBook Pro, I would love it and treasure it. That being said, I just love the current Mini design.



    I don't mind the mini form factor. I just wish it was slightly less limiting. You know part of the trend away from things like the mac pro at the lower end is that many segments of that line haven't been moving very fast. Turbo boost bridges clock speed gaps somewhat. Hyperthreading is available in less expensive computer options, etc. While everyone always claims it's the Xeons that cost so much, that's only true at the top end.
  • wizard69wizard69 Posts: 11,836member
    I never knew butterfish even existed until today.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    In his vision, it's still pushing a (nonexistent right now) retina display, so you'd want butterfish graphics.



    STOP AUTO-CORRECTING 'BETTER-ISH' TO BUTTERFISH, MOUNTAIN LION!



  • wizard69wizard69 Posts: 11,836member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Winter View Post


    http://i41.tinypic.com/1491u6a.jpg <--- Here is the Butterfish courtesy of Wikipedia.



    Now here is the question and this mainly goes to TS and wizard. It's a bit off topic though I think I can ask it here.



    Assuming Apple keeps the mini for the foreseeable future and I hope they do... how long will they keep the HDMI port or better yet, how long should they?



    I would imagine for a long time as that port is used more than you might imagine. However this is Apple we are talking about here, so who really knows!



    Quote:



    Haswell? Rockwell? Beyond?



    I would imagine for as long as Intel supports the protocol in hardware. At least in an ideal world that would happen. You see for what it is the Mini is very useful in a number of different applications and some organizations see it as a standard compact platform.

    Quote:





    Even though I love the MacBook Pro. Ever since going from my netbook to the mini, I love the idea of having my keyboard separate from my display which I have not had since having an ancient Gateway desktop that I disposed of in 2007.



    All you need now is an iPad! 😜

    Quote:



    If I was given a new Ivy Bridge MacBook Pro, I would love it and treasure it. That being said, I just love the current Mini design.



    what is even nicer to dream about is where that little Mini will be in three to fie years. SoC tech will put a lot of power in that little box. If you have been around computers for as long as I've been it is amazing.
  • winterwinter Posts: 1,238member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil


    Oh, you wouldn't have to do that anyway. Thunderbolt has adapters for everything.



    I might want better screen resolution though for now I am happy. Thunderbolt is here to stay for a while as well.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69


    All you need now is an iPad!



    I am tempted however I do not have a need for one at this time.
  • amtiamti Posts: 19member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mcarling View Post


    I expect the next 13" MacBook Pro to look more like this:



    - No ODD.

    - Modified Air form (slightly thicker to accommodate a bigger battery and greater airflow).

    - Ivy bridge with integrated GPU, quad-core.

    - Discrete GPU.

    - 4 GB RAM, 8 GB option.

    - Blade form SSD bay with 128/256/512 GB drive.

    - No HDD.

    - RAM, SSD not user replaceable.

    - 2560x1600 resolution.

    - Glossy screen without glass panel. Option for matte without glass panel.

    - One TB port.

    - Two or three USB 2 ports.

    - One card slot.

    - Ethernet port.

    - 8 hour battery.



    If they can offer a decent quality 512 GB SSD for good price, I would live without the HDD. Maybe they could make a discrete GPU that fits in the HDD bay, and offer a choice between HDD or discrete GPU.



    Not being able to user upgrade the SSD/RAM/HDD is a problem on a 'Pro' version. Get away with it on the more consumer oriented Air, but not the Pro.



    Just doubling the current MBP res (from 1280 x 800 to 2560x1600) will still leave it with effectively less screen real estate than the Air (unless Apple make the UI truly resolution independent). Can't see that lower res being acceptable in the 'Pro' version. The 'base' res will have to be the same as the Air (1440 x 900, or double for retina).
  • wizard69wizard69 Posts: 11,836member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Amti View Post


    If they can offer a decent quality 512 GB SSD for good price, I would live without the HDD. Maybe they could make a discrete GPU that fits in the HDD bay, and offer a choice between HDD or discrete GPU.



    Actually deleting the optical would leave more than enough room for a fairly good GPU in the 13" model and of course the 15" already has the room for a GPU. Note; I'm talking about leaving room for the HDD in the 13". As for an SSD, well I don't see a problem there either, put it on a pluggable card and it realistically can be put anywhere in the machine.

    Quote:



    Not being able to user upgrade the SSD/RAM/HDD is a problem on a 'Pro' version. Get away with it on the more consumer oriented Air, but not the Pro.



    A big problem and frankly I don't see Apple getting away from that capability. They might find themselves using different technology but they can't really expect to sell disposable computers to the pro market.

    Quote:



    Just doubling the current MBP res (from 1280 x 800 to 2560x1600) will still leave it with effectively less screen real estate than the Air (unless Apple make the UI truly resolution independent).



    Resolution independence is already in Lion. Besides resolution indepence isnt about more screen real estate, but rather making sure there is a 1:1 ratio with the real world.

    Quote:



    Can't see that lower res being acceptable in the 'Pro' version. The 'base' res will have to be the same as the Air (1440 x 900, or double for retina).



    Apple will ship whatever they are capable of shipping. That means screens that can be massed produced. If that is 2X the current machines then great. If only 1.5x is practicle then that is what they will ship with. Apple has been extremely vocal to developer telling them not to expect 2X in every case. So maybe it is possible on the 13" screen but maybe not the 17" screen or iMacs.



    We shall see.
  • mcarlingmcarling Posts: 1,105member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    what is even nicer to dream about is where that little Mini will be in three to fie years. SoC tech will put a lot of power in that little box. If you have been around computers for as long as I've been it is amazing.



    Yes. Just two years from now, in 2014, Apple will be able to introduce a Mac Mini faster than today's entry-level Mac Pro.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Amti View Post


    If they can offer a decent quality 512 GB SSD for good price, I would live without the HDD.



    A 512GB SSD in 2012 will be one of those things that if you have to ask about the price, you can't afford it. I expect it to cost more than the 2011 price of the 256GB SSD. The good news is that prices will continue to drop fast.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Amti View Post


    Maybe they could make a discrete GPU that fits in the HDD bay, and offer a choice between HDD or discrete GPU.



    I rather suspect Apple would put the GPU on the motherboard.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Amti View Post


    Not being able to user upgrade the SSD/RAM/HDD is a problem on a 'Pro' version. Get away with it on the more consumer oriented Air, but not the Pro.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    [Apple] can't really expect to sell disposable computers to the pro market.



    I strongly disagree. For another few years, MacBook Pro SSD and RAM will be upgradeable by taking the machine to an Apple service provider. Most pro users will not have a big problem with that. By about 2015, SoC integration will reach the point that RAM will be on the same chip (not yet the same die) as the CPU. When that happens, it's Game Over for RAM upgrades. The same will happen for SSD in about 2016 or 2017. Pros will be delighted with the price, performance, and reliability of their disposable products.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Apple will ship whatever they are capable of shipping. That means screens that can be massed produced. If that is 2X the current machines then great. If only 1.5x is practicle then that is what they will ship with. Apple has been extremely vocal to developer telling them not to expect 2X in every case. So maybe it is possible on the 13" screen but maybe not the 17" screen or iMacs.



    All of this can be produced now. The only question is the yields. For example, take the 9.7" 2048x1536 iPad display. These are cut from large sheets. It's quite possible to cut 19.4" 4096x3072 displays from these same sheets. The only problem is that the yields will be lower.



    What I don't know is this: Is it practical to take a failed 4096x3072 display and cut it into four 2048x1536 displays in the hope that two or three of them are good? I suspect not. One the other hand, it may be possible to test the whole sheet before cutting it into displays and then automatically cut the sheet to yield large displays where possible and smaller displays otherwise.
  • amtiamti Posts: 19member
    Quote:

    Just two years from now, in 2014, Apple will be able to introduce a Mac Mini faster than today's entry-level Mac Pro.



    We live in interesting times.
  • winterwinter Posts: 1,238member
    Pros will be delighted with their new disposable products? This poses a different question.



    How does Apple handle on the oncoming flood of e-waste?
  • diggitidiggiti Posts: 15member


    I called it ! (partially) no more 17"

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