Because in a Pro portable device, I don't want something external that could be internal. And I still use the optical drive to receive files that are too big to email from other people and to transfer files from a non-networkable standalone CD-R drive. And I also burn music for people. As cheap as USB hard drive keys are, they're not as cheap as a blank CD-R.
In addition, some people still prefer DVDs (and Blu-rays for that matter) to streaming and downloadable files. What it really comes down to is why should I lose functionality when I "upgrade" to a new machine.
I agree with those who wonder what the difference is going to be between a MBA and a MBP. I would also consider a small solid-state drive to be a downgrade as well. I've put a 750GB drive into my MBP and that's what I need. As a consultant, I do lots of work for clients who do not want their files in the Cloud.
I think Apple is going to be making a big mistake if they don't maintain a distinction between these lines. They will lose the high-end users. If they want to have thin machines with solid state drives and no optical drive for people who mainly consume content, that's fine -- that's what the MBA line is for.
I do not want to trade hard disk space and the optical drive for slightly more speed and battery life - that's not a good tradeoff for me. The way Apple has responded to consumers' needs in the past is to have multiple lines of products and with customizations within each line. They need to maintain that. One size does not fit all.
Arr! Use a file-sharing site, all the other pirates, *ahem* consultants, use them.
The PRO model will come with a talking assistant to anticipate what you are doing and offer to help you by popping up in the lower right hand corner of the screen. Instead of being male or female the assistant will be in the shape of a common office object. People will all want a laptop with a built-in assistant, you'll see. Once more Apple gives the public what they didn't know they badly wanted!
I do hope they come with available no contract unlocked cell data built in like the iPad.
I have been trying to think of reasons why they have not done so so far, one reason might be that most people keep laptops three to four years, cell modem technology changes quite a lot over such a period.
retina macbook pros (I am sure screen resolution will be much higher at least, but I dread the 16:9 on the 15"...) and glare treated imacs. Very sweet indeed! Not for the bank account, but what can you do.
Wouldnt it be better to have a dedicated graphics card than an integrated
Depends on what you mean by 'better'. Dedicated graphics uses more battery power and more space on the motherboard and generates more heat. OTOH, it has greater performance. Defining 'better' requires that you define the premises.
There are tradeoffs. Which tradeoff is 'best' depends on the user and what they are doing with the computer. As integrated graphics becomes more powerful, the number of people who don't need dedicated graphics is growing. No one really knows if it has grown large enough for Apple to switch entirely to integrated graphics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NirvashUltimate
1. And i know this has been focused on only the 15 and 13 inch but what about the 17 inch?
It's a rumor. No one outside of Cupertino really knows. Currently, the 15" and 17" offer dedicated graphics in combination with integrated graphics. The 13" offers only integrated graphics. If I had to guess, I would expect that the 17" will continue to use dedicated graphics and probably the 15", as well.
Even after magnetic drives are no longer the capacity leader for the same volume (they already aren't in smaller drives) they will continue to be the cost-per-GB leader for many years to come.
If the laser based systems are perfected we could see capacity increase by at least 10X. That would put a lot more storage in a little space. It will be a very long time before we have 10 TB solid state solutions.
Quote:
I know of several people worried about these rumours of the MBP following the MBA design. I don't think it's an issue since the MBP has followed the MBA in the past and a high capacity drive is more important today for a Pro user than the ODD was a few years ago and that's still hanging around.
Apple knows this market pretty good, I don't see them giving up on magnetic drives so easily.
Quote:
The only legitimate issue are those that want the speed of the SSD and the capacity of the HDD via a dual drive system. This is less certain but I think Apple will offer this. Hopefully with a SSD card + HDD but they also have a patent for an SSD+HDD hybrid drive. I think the former is more likely.
Yes but dropping the optical makes this easy as PI. If you consider the blade type cards you could easily stuff three of them i the space of an optical drive with lots of free space all around. I'm hoping they don't go the blade route though but rather look at something far more forward looking. In any event I don't really see a hybrid solution as a big problem, it is just a matter of how Apple allocates the space freed up.
Because in a Pro portable device, I don't want something external that could be internal. And I still use the optical drive to receive files that are too big to email from other people and to transfer files from a non-networkable standalone CD-R drive. And I also burn music for people. As cheap as USB hard drive keys are, they're not as cheap as a blank CD-R.
In part that is my argument for getting rid of the optical. I'd much rather have a large HDD internal to the machine for bulk storage.
Quote:
In addition, some people still prefer DVDs (and Blu-rays for that matter) to streaming and downloadable files. What it really comes down to is why should I lose functionality when I "upgrade" to a new machine.
I'm sure people whined in the same manner when they had to start buying vinyl records as opposed to the wax cylinders and then those CD. Most people have moved on and now buy their audio as digital files. what it comes down to is that you either get with the times or you open an antique store.
Quote:
I agree with those who wonder what the difference is going to be between a MBA and a MBP. I would also consider a small solid-state drive to be a downgrade as well. I've put a 750GB drive into my MBP and that's what I need. As a consultant, I do lots of work for clients who do not want their files in the Cloud.
This is why everybody is so hot on the hybrid approach. You put in a 128GB drive for apps and OS usage and put your home directory on a magnetic drive. This gives you the combo of fast performance and bulk storage.
Quote:
I think Apple is going to be making a big mistake if they don't maintain a distinction between these lines. They will lose the high-end users. If they want to have thin machines with solid state drives and no optical drive for people who mainly consume content, that's fine -- that's what the MBA line is for.
I really don't know how many times we have to go over this but the optical is not a distinguishing feature of the MBP lines. Performance and capability is.
Quote:
I do not want to trade hard disk space and the optical drive for slightly more speed and battery life - that's not a good tradeoff for me. The way Apple has responded to consumers' needs in the past is to have multiple lines of products and with customizations within each line. They need to maintain that. One size does not fit all.
Again this isn't one size fits all. Rather it is a modern take on what a Pro computer needs to be. Apple will continue to keep the performance line separated from the entry level line. If they did't so many customers would leave as to sink the ship. Deletion of the optical isn't any different than the move away from the floppy.
This is the REAL issue here. Apple is slowly pulling out of the pro market product by product to focus on the consumer and semi-pro markets.
First to go was the server products. Then they dumbed down the pro software with FCP X. Next they will probably marry the MBA and MBP together into a more mass market device (maybe not this year but certainly within the next 18 months). Next it will be the end of the Mac Pro in favour of an iMac Pro or a beefed up Mac Mini. Eventually there will be no pro products left.
I had been waiting for the right moment to replace my MBP 15 (2008). But it'll be with one of the current Macbook Pro models. I enjoy making my own audio CDs and DVD. So, yes, the optical drive is part of the pro thing.
I seriously doubt Apple will be putting dual HDDs in any portable machine. Much more likely they will offer various combinations of separate SSD and HDD drives for the new MBPs.
I seriously doubt Apple will be putting dual HDDs in any portable machine. Much more likely they will offer various combinations of separate SSD and HDD drives for the new MBPs.
I am all for different opinions though I just cannot grasp the idea of still including an optical drive.
My friend and I had a bit of a debate about this and he brought up that some don't like to carry around a USB DVD drive. I said it was fair though Apple needs to move onward and not stay in neutral.
Soon optical media in general will become a thing of the past. Blu Ray players can already be picked up on the cheap and have been for quite some time. Content is all done virtually now pretty much.
Those who don't want Apple to move forward will have to be left behind and play catch-up later.
This is the REAL issue here. Apple is slowly pulling out of the pro market product by product to focus on the consumer and semi-pro markets.
I fail to see how the MBPs are any less of a Pro machine today than they where a year or two ago. Whatever will replace the Mac Pro will be Apples Pro solution for some time into the future. Not looking like today's Mac Pro does not make it any less of a Pro.
Quote:
First to go was the server products.
No Pro in his right mind would have been buying Apple server products in the first place. Thus sales didn't justify the engineering effort to produce the machine.
Quote:
Then they dumbed down the pro software with FCP X. Next they will probably marry the MBA and MBP together into a more mass market device (maybe not this year but certainly within the next 18 months). Next it will be the end of the Mac Pro in favour of an iMac Pro or a beefed up Mac Mini. Eventually there will be no pro products left.
Would you guys with all this negativity just stop! I mean really the Mac Pros replacement hasn't even hit the streets yet.
Given that they use discrete graphics and Ivy Bridge only has a small CPU improvement, they might just revert to putting out another series of Sandy Bridge laptops as a stop-gap.
If HP do get to use Ivy Bridge then new MBPs won't be far off.
I really hope the date is wrong. It should have been in production for several weeks by now... I'm beyond anxious.
If the processors haven't been officially announced yet, lead time would be at most a month for the OEMs most likely. Intel is the one who delayed the processors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malcolmkettering
this is the BIG question?? what does this story mean for the next version of the 11" MBA? Not a mention of anything related to 11.
Processors that are most likely for the MBA line won't be released until June or July. Look for updates to the MBA after that
Tallest Skill says the optical drive is "retro", but I disagree and I hope they keep it in the iMac and MacBook Pro.
The reason the floppy disk went the way of the dodo is because the CD, DVD and Flash Disk killed it. It took three separate bits of media a decade to fully eradicate the Floppy from existence.
It will happen to the Optical Disk, but not now - why? There is currently no replacement for the optical disk when it comes to physical distribution.
I walk into a shop and pick a case up off the shelf and do you know what it will contain? An Optical Disk. Give someone a copy of something they can keep? Optical Disk. Give someone a copy of something without also giving them you entire hard disk or flash drive? Optical Disk. Permanent backup solution? Optical Disk!
I have backup DVDs going all the way back to 2005. I couldn't fit all that data onto my current 2TB setup along side my applications, more frequently used data and operating system. Given the price of Optical Media, its much cheaper to burn older data to disk for archival rather than letting it rot on a sector of a hard disk, taking up valuable space and prompting you to either permanently delete the older data or buy another hard disk.
Yeah, there are online solutions, I use box.com - but the 25GB limit for £60 a year is a joke when a pack of 20 Single-Layer DVDs for £5 gives me 94GBs AND I don't have to wait an eternity for it to download/upload.
The optical disk isn't going anywhere until people start doing the following:
-Distributing media and software on cards akin to the PlayStation Vita.
-Creating and distributing media playback devices that uses these cards as their primary storage format (whilst outselling DVD and Blu-Ray players) and;
-Making these cards as cheap or cheaper than optical media to make them a suitable alternative for backups and disposable copies.
TL;DR
Tape is still used and developed and Vinyl is still selling. Food for thought.
Comments
Because in a Pro portable device, I don't want something external that could be internal. And I still use the optical drive to receive files that are too big to email from other people and to transfer files from a non-networkable standalone CD-R drive. And I also burn music for people. As cheap as USB hard drive keys are, they're not as cheap as a blank CD-R.
In addition, some people still prefer DVDs (and Blu-rays for that matter) to streaming and downloadable files. What it really comes down to is why should I lose functionality when I "upgrade" to a new machine.
I agree with those who wonder what the difference is going to be between a MBA and a MBP. I would also consider a small solid-state drive to be a downgrade as well. I've put a 750GB drive into my MBP and that's what I need. As a consultant, I do lots of work for clients who do not want their files in the Cloud.
I think Apple is going to be making a big mistake if they don't maintain a distinction between these lines. They will lose the high-end users. If they want to have thin machines with solid state drives and no optical drive for people who mainly consume content, that's fine -- that's what the MBA line is for.
I do not want to trade hard disk space and the optical drive for slightly more speed and battery life - that's not a good tradeoff for me. The way Apple has responded to consumers' needs in the past is to have multiple lines of products and with customizations within each line. They need to maintain that. One size does not fit all.
Arr! Use a file-sharing site, all the other pirates, *ahem* consultants, use them.
The PRO model will come with a talking assistant to anticipate what you are doing and offer to help you by popping up in the lower right hand corner of the screen. Instead of being male or female the assistant will be in the shape of a common office object. People will all want a laptop with a built-in assistant, you'll see. Once more Apple gives the public what they didn't know they badly wanted!
In case anyone didn't get the joke:
http://oddisgood.com/pages/cd-clippy.html
Wrong. The current 13" MBP does NOT have a discrete GPU. Check the specs.
I was being sarcastic.
I do hope they come with available no contract unlocked cell data built in like the iPad.
I have been trying to think of reasons why they have not done so so far, one reason might be that most people keep laptops three to four years, cell modem technology changes quite a lot over such a period.
Wouldnt it be better to have a dedicated graphics card than an integrated
Depends on what you mean by 'better'. Dedicated graphics uses more battery power and more space on the motherboard and generates more heat. OTOH, it has greater performance. Defining 'better' requires that you define the premises.
There are tradeoffs. Which tradeoff is 'best' depends on the user and what they are doing with the computer. As integrated graphics becomes more powerful, the number of people who don't need dedicated graphics is growing. No one really knows if it has grown large enough for Apple to switch entirely to integrated graphics.
1. And i know this has been focused on only the 15 and 13 inch but what about the 17 inch?
It's a rumor. No one outside of Cupertino really knows. Currently, the 15" and 17" offer dedicated graphics in combination with integrated graphics. The 13" offers only integrated graphics. If I had to guess, I would expect that the 17" will continue to use dedicated graphics and probably the 15", as well.
Even after magnetic drives are no longer the capacity leader for the same volume (they already aren't in smaller drives) they will continue to be the cost-per-GB leader for many years to come.
If the laser based systems are perfected we could see capacity increase by at least 10X. That would put a lot more storage in a little space. It will be a very long time before we have 10 TB solid state solutions.
I know of several people worried about these rumours of the MBP following the MBA design. I don't think it's an issue since the MBP has followed the MBA in the past and a high capacity drive is more important today for a Pro user than the ODD was a few years ago and that's still hanging around.
Apple knows this market pretty good, I don't see them giving up on magnetic drives so easily.
The only legitimate issue are those that want the speed of the SSD and the capacity of the HDD via a dual drive system. This is less certain but I think Apple will offer this. Hopefully with a SSD card + HDD but they also have a patent for an SSD+HDD hybrid drive. I think the former is more likely.
Yes but dropping the optical makes this easy as PI. If you consider the blade type cards you could easily stuff three of them i the space of an optical drive with lots of free space all around. I'm hoping they don't go the blade route though but rather look at something far more forward looking. In any event I don't really see a hybrid solution as a big problem, it is just a matter of how Apple allocates the space freed up.
Because in a Pro portable device, I don't want something external that could be internal. And I still use the optical drive to receive files that are too big to email from other people and to transfer files from a non-networkable standalone CD-R drive. And I also burn music for people. As cheap as USB hard drive keys are, they're not as cheap as a blank CD-R.
In part that is my argument for getting rid of the optical. I'd much rather have a large HDD internal to the machine for bulk storage.
In addition, some people still prefer DVDs (and Blu-rays for that matter) to streaming and downloadable files. What it really comes down to is why should I lose functionality when I "upgrade" to a new machine.
I'm sure people whined in the same manner when they had to start buying vinyl records as opposed to the wax cylinders and then those CD. Most people have moved on and now buy their audio as digital files. what it comes down to is that you either get with the times or you open an antique store.
I agree with those who wonder what the difference is going to be between a MBA and a MBP. I would also consider a small solid-state drive to be a downgrade as well. I've put a 750GB drive into my MBP and that's what I need. As a consultant, I do lots of work for clients who do not want their files in the Cloud.
This is why everybody is so hot on the hybrid approach. You put in a 128GB drive for apps and OS usage and put your home directory on a magnetic drive. This gives you the combo of fast performance and bulk storage.
I think Apple is going to be making a big mistake if they don't maintain a distinction between these lines. They will lose the high-end users. If they want to have thin machines with solid state drives and no optical drive for people who mainly consume content, that's fine -- that's what the MBA line is for.
I really don't know how many times we have to go over this but the optical is not a distinguishing feature of the MBP lines. Performance and capability is.
I do not want to trade hard disk space and the optical drive for slightly more speed and battery life - that's not a good tradeoff for me. The way Apple has responded to consumers' needs in the past is to have multiple lines of products and with customizations within each line. They need to maintain that. One size does not fit all.
Again this isn't one size fits all. Rather it is a modern take on what a Pro computer needs to be. Apple will continue to keep the performance line separated from the entry level line. If they did't so many customers would leave as to sink the ship. Deletion of the optical isn't any different than the move away from the floppy.
It's just not a smart fit for the average user.
This is the REAL issue here. Apple is slowly pulling out of the pro market product by product to focus on the consumer and semi-pro markets.
First to go was the server products. Then they dumbed down the pro software with FCP X. Next they will probably marry the MBA and MBP together into a more mass market device (maybe not this year but certainly within the next 18 months). Next it will be the end of the Mac Pro in favour of an iMac Pro or a beefed up Mac Mini. Eventually there will be no pro products left.
I seriously doubt Apple will be putting dual HDDs in any portable machine. Much more likely they will offer various combinations of separate SSD and HDD drives for the new MBPs.
Like the iMac.
So, yes, the optical drive is part of the pro thing.
You're confusing "pro" with "retro".
My friend and I had a bit of a debate about this and he brought up that some don't like to carry around a USB DVD drive. I said it was fair though Apple needs to move onward and not stay in neutral.
Soon optical media in general will become a thing of the past. Blu Ray players can already be picked up on the cheap and have been for quite some time. Content is all done virtually now pretty much.
Those who don't want Apple to move forward will have to be left behind and play catch-up later.
This is the REAL issue here. Apple is slowly pulling out of the pro market product by product to focus on the consumer and semi-pro markets.
I fail to see how the MBPs are any less of a Pro machine today than they where a year or two ago. Whatever will replace the Mac Pro will be Apples Pro solution for some time into the future. Not looking like today's Mac Pro does not make it any less of a Pro.
First to go was the server products.
No Pro in his right mind would have been buying Apple server products in the first place. Thus sales didn't justify the engineering effort to produce the machine.
Then they dumbed down the pro software with FCP X. Next they will probably marry the MBA and MBP together into a more mass market device (maybe not this year but certainly within the next 18 months). Next it will be the end of the Mac Pro in favour of an iMac Pro or a beefed up Mac Mini. Eventually there will be no pro products left.
Would you guys with all this negativity just stop! I mean really the Mac Pros replacement hasn't even hit the streets yet.
http://asia.cnet.com/crave/hp-to-lau...k-62214184.htm
Given that they use discrete graphics and Ivy Bridge only has a small CPU improvement, they might just revert to putting out another series of Sandy Bridge laptops as a stop-gap.
If HP do get to use Ivy Bridge then new MBPs won't be far off.
I really hope the date is wrong. It should have been in production for several weeks by now... I'm beyond anxious.
If the processors haven't been officially announced yet, lead time would be at most a month for the OEMs most likely. Intel is the one who delayed the processors.
this is the BIG question?? what does this story mean for the next version of the 11" MBA? Not a mention of anything related to 11.
Processors that are most likely for the MBA line won't be released until June or July. Look for updates to the MBA after that
The reason the floppy disk went the way of the dodo is because the CD, DVD and Flash Disk killed it. It took three separate bits of media a decade to fully eradicate the Floppy from existence.
It will happen to the Optical Disk, but not now - why? There is currently no replacement for the optical disk when it comes to physical distribution.
I walk into a shop and pick a case up off the shelf and do you know what it will contain? An Optical Disk. Give someone a copy of something they can keep? Optical Disk. Give someone a copy of something without also giving them you entire hard disk or flash drive? Optical Disk. Permanent backup solution? Optical Disk!
I have backup DVDs going all the way back to 2005. I couldn't fit all that data onto my current 2TB setup along side my applications, more frequently used data and operating system. Given the price of Optical Media, its much cheaper to burn older data to disk for archival rather than letting it rot on a sector of a hard disk, taking up valuable space and prompting you to either permanently delete the older data or buy another hard disk.
Yeah, there are online solutions, I use box.com - but the 25GB limit for £60 a year is a joke when a pack of 20 Single-Layer DVDs for £5 gives me 94GBs AND I don't have to wait an eternity for it to download/upload.
The optical disk isn't going anywhere until people start doing the following:
-Distributing media and software on cards akin to the PlayStation Vita.
-Creating and distributing media playback devices that uses these cards as their primary storage format (whilst outselling DVD and Blu-Ray players) and;
-Making these cards as cheap or cheaper than optical media to make them a suitable alternative for backups and disposable copies.
TL;DR
Tape is still used and developed and Vinyl is still selling. Food for thought.