Apple retains master decryption key for iCloud

124»

Comments

  • gatorguygatorguy Posts: 14,132member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post


    Apple won't randomly scan through data. Firstly, it would be against god knows how many laws. Only if the account is a suspect of a crime or a threat the national security would Apple then be warranted to inspect the data.



    If they can't view the data until warranted by the authorities, then thats okay in my books unlike Google or Facebook that scan everything you do.



    IE: There is a 'like' button on a website. Even if you don't click it, Facebook know you've been there by checking the location of the button instance with the information stored in the browser cookies.



    There was a bit of a dust-up last week when Microsoft started blocking links to Pirate Bay. . .

    found in IM's!



    Yes our communications are being monitored. Perhaps not by a real person in most cases, but certainly thru server-side software at the least.

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/03...pirate_bay_im/
  • benanderson89benanderson89 Posts: 580member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    There was a bit of a dust-up last week when Microsoft started blocking links to Pirate Bay. . .

    found in IM's!



    Yes our communications are being monitored. Perhaps not by a real person in most cases, but certainly thru server-side software at the least.

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/03...pirate_bay_im/



    Thats slightly different, however. All messages go through the Microsoft servers for routing to their correct destination and (if you selected the option) stored and logged ("chat history").



    All data (especially strings) going to a server is parsed and any characters that have the potential for exploit are escaped or encoded in a safer format. Microsoft would've just added an extra line of code that checks for the presence of "piratebay" in the string.



    Code:


    if(message.indexOf("piratebay") !== -1){

    //continue with message

    }else{

    //throw away message

    }





    It says no where in the EULA that the messages transmitted over the MSN Messenger Protocol are collected, analysed and sold.
  • vandilvandil Posts: 187member
    Store anything sensitive/private on an encrypted disk image. Done.
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post


    Apple won't randomly scan through data. Firstly, it would be against god knows how many laws. Only if the account is a suspect of a crime or a threat the national security would Apple then be warranted to inspect the data.



    If they can't view the data until warranted by the authorities, then thats okay in my books unlike Google or Facebook that scan everything you do.



    I don't believe that's correct. Read the original article:

    "The iCloud Terms and Conditions contain provisions for Apple to "pre-screen, move, refuse, modify and/or remove" content that is found to be objectionable. The company also retains the right to "access, use, preserve and/or disclose" account information and content to law enforcement authorities. The report noted that Apple's Terms allow it to check content for copyright infringement as per the Digital Millennium Copyright Act."



    Apple has the right to check content for copyright infringement. They also have the right to pre-screen content to see if it is objectionable (per the iCloud T&C).



    But feel free to show which of "god knows how many laws" Apple is violating.
  • absolutedesignzabsolutedesignz Posts: 1,930member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post


    Apart from the glaring fact of That's how their chuffing business model works.



    Oh okay...so they sell "Tim Jones from 123 Main St. 25 years old with a live in girlfriend and a dog named Brandy. Likes the New York Giants and the Yankees and is a Lakers fan. Makes about 45k a year as an accountant in Northern New Jersey and visits his mom every other weekend for a homecooked meal and to see how she's doing." To advertisers?



    OR do they aggregate the anonymized data of hundreds of thousands of people with certain interests and feed them targeted ads and the advertisers pay for the exposure?



    Stop lying dude.



    Hell..Apple profits off of child labor and horrible working conditions overseas!!!!!!



    I can FUD too.



    (PS, I do not believe that)
  • blah64blah64 Posts: 767member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post


    Oh okay...so they sell "Tim Jones from 123 Main St. 25 years old with a live in girlfriend and a dog named Brandy. Likes the New York Giants and the Yankees and is a Lakers fan. Makes about 45k a year as an accountant in Northern New Jersey and visits his mom every other weekend for a homecooked meal and to see how she's doing." To advertisers?



    OR do they aggregate the anonymized data of hundreds of thousands of people with certain interests and feed them targeted ads and the advertisers pay for the exposure?



    Used to be the latter was enough. Now the former is closer to what happens.



    Thank you for allowing a simple comparison of what's kinda-okay vs. unacceptable.
  • shaun, ukshaun, uk Posts: 1,050member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Then don't use iCloud. Problem solved.



    Now, how are you going to keep all your private information out of Google's hands?



    I already said that I don't use iCloud. I wish people would read the OP before they comment.



    I don't use Google either. There are plenty of good search engines that don't collate your search history. Alternatively you can buy programs that hide your IP address.



    I don't use Facebook, Google+, Twitter or any social networking sites because I have a life.



    I agree that it's an ongoing battle to stop companies and governments from invading our privacy. When I was at school I read a famous book called 1984 by George Orwell. The nightmare scenario portrayed in that book has stayed with me ever since as a warning to what can happen if we don?t fight to stop it. At the time it seemed so farfetched but now much of it is reality. Our own governments spy on our phone calls, emails, etc. CCTV cameras are everywhere. Even our internet searches are recorded. Big Brother is here and he's watching everyone of us.
  • benanderson89benanderson89 Posts: 580member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    I don't believe that's correct. Read the original article:

    "The iCloud Terms and Conditions contain provisions for Apple to "pre-screen, move, refuse, modify and/or remove" content that is found to be objectionable. The company also retains the right to "access, use, preserve and/or disclose" account information and content to law enforcement authorities. The report noted that Apple's Terms allow it to check content for copyright infringement as per the Digital Millennium Copyright Act."



    Apple has the right to check content for copyright infringement. They also have the right to pre-screen content to see if it is objectionable (per the iCloud T&C).



    But feel free to show which of "god knows how many laws" Apple is violating.



    Yes, they can pre-screen move, refuse, modify etc data that is FOUND to be objectionable and pass it on to AUTHORITIES or Apple will TERMINATE the account.



    There is also no mention of checking for copyright infringement in iCloud's T&Cs. I've got it open in another window right now.

    Just read it and see:

    Quote:

    You will not use the service to

    [...]

    e.\tengage in any copyright infringement or other intellectual property infringement (including uploading any content to which you do not have the right to upload), or disclose any trade secret or confidential information in violation of a confidentiality, employment, or nondisclosure agreement;



    Quote:

    You acknowledge that Apple is not responsible or liable in any way for any Content provided by others and has no duty to pre-screen such Content. However, Apple reserves the right at all times to determine whether Content is appropriate and in compliance with this Agreement, and may pre-screen, move, refuse, modify and/or remove Content at any time, without prior notice and in its sole discretion, if such Content is found to be in violation of this Agreement or is otherwise objectionable.



    Quote:

    Copyright Notice - DMCA



    If you believe that any Content in which you claim copyright has been infringed by anyone using the Service, please contact Apple's Copyright Agent as described in our Copyright Policy at http://www.apple.com/legal/trademark...copyright.html. Apple may, in its sole discretion, suspend and/or terminate Accounts of users that are found to be repeat infringers.



    Quote:

    Access to Your Account and Content



    Apple reserves the right to take steps Apple believes are reasonably necessary or appropriate to enforce and/or verify compliance with any part of this Agreement. You acknowledge and agree that Apple may, without liability to you, access, use, preserve and/or disclose your Account information and Content to law enforcement authorities, government officials, and/or a third party, as Apple believes is reasonably necessary or appropriate, if legally required to do so or if we have a good faith belief that such access, use, disclosure, or preservation is reasonably necessary to: (a) comply with legal process or request; (b) enforce this Agreement, including investigation of any potential violation thereof; (c) detect, prevent or otherwise address security, fraud or technical issues; or (d) protect the rights, property or safety of Apple, its users, a third party, or the public as required or permitted by law.



    Apple CAN screen your data, but they must first be notified either by someone claiming infringement or the authorities. It says it in plain English.









    I can think of three laws where randomly checking data and emails would apply:

    Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act

    Data Protection Directive

    Data Protection Act



    In Europe, Apple cannot randomly analyse data unless there is reason to do so. To "check that it doesn't break the T&Cs because of reasons" is not good enough.
  • benanderson89benanderson89 Posts: 580member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post


    Oh okay...so they sell "Tim Jones from 123 Main St. 25 years old with a live in girlfriend and a dog named Brandy. Likes the New York Giants and the Yankees and is a Lakers fan. Makes about 45k a year as an accountant in Northern New Jersey and visits his mom every other weekend for a homecooked meal and to see how she's doing." To advertisers?



    OR do they aggregate the anonymized data of hundreds of thousands of people with certain interests and feed them targeted ads and the advertisers pay for the exposure?



    Stop lying dude.



    Hell..Apple profits off of child labor and horrible working conditions overseas!!!!!!



    I can FUD too.



    (PS, I do not believe that)



    Facebook uses any data they have on you for very specific adverts targeted to you. They know your name, your country of origin, what you drink (pressing "like" on a Coca Cola page does more than you think), who your friends are, where you went to school, where you work and so on and so forth - people just blindly give this data to Facebook and they use it for advertisement and to exploit coinage from you.



    Facebook will then pump adverts to all my friends saying "Ben Likes Cola! Click here to find out more about Cola!"

    Friends fall into a psychological trap and will most likely buy the product or express interest, Facebook makes money from using my personal data and information and Coca Cola make more sales.



    I wish I could find that documentary on Facebook where employees actually said this in plain english on national television.

    Its:

    -eCommerce 101

    -Explained in the T&Cs

    -Said in clear English on television.



    Google is exactly the same. Though not as highly specific, they do send your data (be it your preference of soft drink or your latest artistic masterpiece) to far more third parties and claim ownership of it with the ability to distribute and reuse it on the internet royalty free.



    Its in the T&Cs. Why do you think Europe is always going bonkers with companies like google over privacy and ownership?
  • magic_almagic_al Posts: 325member
    My understanding is ISPs are immunized against liability for hosting illegal user content they don't know about and they are not expected or required to do preemptive screening. It's therefore in Apple's interest to NOT screen content without cause. However they need the ability to act when they become aware of anything specific.
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post


    Apple CAN screen your data, but they must first be notified either by someone claiming infringement or the authorities. It says it in plain English.



    Where does it say that? It specifically says that they can screen for any number of reasons:

    "Apple reserves the right to take steps Apple believes are reasonably necessary or appropriate to enforce and/or verify compliance with any part of this Agreement. You acknowledge and agree that Apple may, without liability to you, access, use, preserve and/or disclose your Account information and Content to law enforcement authorities, government officials, and/or a third party, as Apple believes is reasonably necessary or appropriate, if legally required to do so or if we have a good faith belief that such access, use, disclosure, or preservation is reasonably necessary to: (a) comply with legal process or request; (b) enforce this Agreement, including investigation of any potential violation thereof; (c) detect, prevent or otherwise address security, fraud or technical issues; or (d) protect the rights, property or safety of Apple, its users, a third party, or the public as required or permitted by law."



    Those are all vague enough that Apple can access your account simply on suspicion - even if not formally notified by the authorities or someone claiming infringement.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post


    I can think of three laws where randomly checking data and emails would apply:

    Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act

    Data Protection Directive

    Data Protection Act



    In Europe, Apple cannot randomly analyse data unless there is reason to do so. To "check that it doesn't break the T&Cs because of reasons" is not good enough.



    None of those laws says that you think it says. When you sign up for iCloud, you give Apple permission to access your account. Europe is somewhat different, but even in Europe, when you give Apple permission to access your account, then they have permission to do so.
  • daving313daving313 Posts: 97member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    That's certainly not a given. And I don't see it being free if it does happen.



    So I'm expected to use two separate IDs for the rest of my life I guess? And hope that I never lose either of those e-mail addresses!
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by daving313 View Post


    So I'm expected to use two separate IDs for the rest of my life I guess? And hope that I never lose either of those e-mail addresses!



    Apple has stated that MobileMe and iCloud accounts will be merged at some point.



    And, in spite of the FUD being thrown around, you won't be charged for it.
  • mgsarchmgsarch Posts: 50member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by silverpraxis View Post


    Apple's user agreement regarding iCloud states what they have the capability of doing with the data you provide to their service. There's no secret conspiracy going on as it's spelled out to you if you were ever concerned about it.



    Also, I love when people complain about these things as if they're trying to protect sensitive legal (as opposed to illegal) data. Frankly, if we were all a little more open about our medical and financial data (I'm not talking about CC #s), the world might be a better place. Very few would be harmed by legal private data being released to the Internet. I believe that people complaining the loudest have illegal data, whether copyright infringing or evidence of human harm, they are trying to keep under wraps.



    The world needs to stop being so embarrassed and uptight.



    <epic sigh>
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 39,471member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Apple has stated that MobileMe and iCloud accounts will be merged at some point.



    Oh, he was talking about just MobileMe; sorry, my mistake.



    Quote:

    And, in spite of the FUD being thrown around, you won't be charged for it.



    What about Apple IDs in general?
Sign In or Register to comment.