Apple interested in wireless power to charge devices on store shelves

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Comments

  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,741member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    The power is generated by the repetitive motions of Foxconn workers? Apple Stpre employees wear special socks sp they can generate power while they work?



    Joking appart, did you see in the UK they are tiling a Mall near the olympic stadium with floor tiles that generate power due to pressure. They estimate the foot traffic during the olympics will power the entire facility's lighting. Amazing what you can learn listening to Science Friday!
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post


    Households only use a quarter of all energy (most is used by transport and industry), and appliances only use a third of that (most energy in the homes goes for heating/cooling). So if you decrease the efficiency of some of these house appliances using up to 8% of total energy (not all of them will use resonant inductive charging) from 95 to 70-80%, you only increase energy consumption by less than 2%, more like 0.2-0.5%.



    Yes, it's possible to make it insignificant if you look only at percentages of the entire U.S. energy usage.



    But, as I pointed out before, if this were widely used, it would take one full-scale power plant just to make up for the waste. Do you really see the need to add another power plant (at the cost of many millions of dollars - or billions if it's nuclear) as well as the cost of importing all that fuel and the resultant pollution just so that you don't have to plug in your phone?



    I guess I just don't see how "place it on the charger in just the right position" saves enough time compared to "plug in the cord that is lying on my nightstand".
  • drdoppiodrdoppio Posts: 1,132member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by muppetry View Post


    The patent application only appears to describe adding conductive pathways and connectors to packaging, with the possibility of a simple antenna for inductive coupling, which would be a fairly trivial addition. I don't think they are planning active circuitry.



    It's still a waste of materials and a potential waste of energy for a pointless marketing gimmick.
  • drdoppiodrdoppio Posts: 1,132member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Yes, it's possible to make it insignificant if you look only at percentages of the entire U.S. energy usage.



    But, as I pointed out before, if this were widely used, it would take one full-scale power plant just to make up for the waste. Do you really see the need to add another power plant (at the cost of many millions of dollars - or billions if it's nuclear) as well as the cost of importing all that fuel and the resultant pollution just so that you don't have to plug in your phone?



    I guess I just don't see how "place it on the charger in just the right position" saves enough time compared to "plug in the cord that is lying on my nightstand".



    I really think that the savings from losing all the wires and proprietary connectors would outweigh the energy losses.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    Joking appart, did you see in the UK they are tiling a Mall near the olympic stadium with floor tiles that generate power due to pressure. They estimate the foot traffic during the olympics will power the entire facility's lighting. Amazing what you can learn listening to Science Friday!



    That's pretty cool but I wonder if it's cost prohibitive except for non-novelty/prrof-of-concept uses, how much traffic there has to be to make it feasible light the facility, and how it feels to walk on the floor.



    PS: What unit of measurement do they use? It's just th number of people, but the number of footfalls they make. And then you have to consider the pressure being applied.
  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,741member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Yes, it's possible to make it insignificant if you look only at percentages of the entire U.S. energy usage.



    But, as I pointed out before, if this were widely used, it would take one full-scale power plant just to make up for the waste. Do you really see the need to add another power plant (at the cost of many millions of dollars - or billions if it's nuclear) as well as the cost of importing all that fuel and the resultant pollution just so that you don't have to plug in your phone?



    I guess I just don't see how "place it on the charger in just the right position" saves enough time compared to "plug in the cord that is lying on my nightstand".



    The new technologies coming that will take advantage of wi-tricity will be as equally radically different. Your new power plant requirement theory is assuming we simply try to use the same old with the new. That would be like folks listening to Karl Benz in the 1880's assuming he was proposing a gasoline engine be fitted to existing horse drawn carriages and leaving off the horses.



    Check out this light from Osram ... http://www.witricity.com/pdfs/Osram.pdf



    Perhaps we should invite some of the MIT physicists to this discussion to talk to our resident expert physicists that claim this is impossible. After all this was MIT physicists that developed this latest and dramatically different approach from Tesla's. I don't believe MIT is a hot bed for perpetual motion machine development ... but I could be wrong
  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,741member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    That's pretty cool but I wonder if it's cost prohibitive except for non-novelty/prrof-of-concept uses, how much traffic there has to be to make it feasible light the facility, and how it feels to walk on the floor.



    PS: What unit of measurement do they use? It's just th number of people, but the number of footfalls they make. And then you have to consider the pressure being applied.



    I am trying to find the article relating to the broadcast. From what I recall the break through in this, it has been tried before, was the ability to store and average out the kinetic energy for distribution as electricty. This is I suspect is a proof of concept installation as it is a British invention and of course a major British event. I don't think it feels any diffent to walk on than a typical vinyl tile. If I find anything I will edit the link in here.



    Edit: They are different and may feel different but they seem to be made so people want to walk on them ... very clever! I just hope no one trips and sues ... Oh wait ... this is England not the USA



    Can't find the article but here is the company web site behind this technolo. http://www.pavegen.com/
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    The new technologies coming that will take advantage of wi-tricity will be as equally radically different. Your new power plant requirement theory is assuming we simply try to use the same old with the new.



    Not at all. I simply assumed something like a 10% efficiency loss. And since even the best commercially available products are only 50-60% efficient, that seems pretty generous. It's not even theoretically possible to have wireless charging without some losses -and since all the other components are the same, there will always be some losses.
  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,741member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Not at all. I simply assumed something like a 10% efficiency loss. And since even the best commercially available products are only 50-60% efficient, that seems pretty generous. It's not even theoretically possible to have wireless charging without some losses -and since all the other components are the same, there will always be some losses.



    Of course there will always be loss however new technologies such as LED lights (and who knows what other break throughs are coming), are so much more efficient themselves. Imagine the cost saving in building a home in the future that requires very few wires. The materials we use to create the wired world themselves require an enormous amount of power to mine, manufacture, distribute and install.



    In the end we can differ in our opinions but I am totally of the belief we will in the near future see a time when many things we currently plug in won't be ... from lights to equipment and we will walk into an area and our Apple devices will simply be charging .... and it won't require the need of a new power station. It will in fact, due to the acceleration of new technologies, bring about a lowering of energy usage.
  • grangerfxgrangerfx Posts: 310member
    This is a really great idea (seriously). Apple could add a demo mode to iOS that the devices go into when factory reset. When they reach at least 80% charge, the screen would turn on and start displaying images and movies. This is like the attract mode in old video arcade games. They could even use the light sensor so that only the devices on the front row would turn on and only when the lights in the store are on. That would save energy. I really like this idea. I do hope that the wireless charging can be built into the devices themselves rather than just the packaging. Eventually the packaging could have its own screen, mini-CPU and OLED screen. Then the green people will come out of the woodwork to whine about waste.
  • doug0613doug0613 Posts: 4member
    Because we don't have enough cancer

    We need to be bombarded by more radiation
  • envirogenvirog Posts: 188member
    A wonderful progression of packaging design!
  • sockrolidsockrolid Posts: 2,716member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider


    The use of packaging to receive the wireless power would also negate the need for the device itself to be able to recharge wirelessly.



    Darn.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider


    This would avoid the need to increase the size of the device to add such technology.



    Yay.
  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,741member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by doug0613 View Post


    Because we don't have enough cancer

    We need to be bombarded by more radiation



    JFYI from http://www.witricity.com/pages/benefits.html



    Non-Radiative Energy Transfer is Safe for People and Animals

    WiTricity?s technology is a non-radiative mode of energy transfer, relying instead on the magnetic near field. Magnetic fields interact very weakly with biological organisms?people and animals?and are scientifically regarded to be safe. Professor Sir John Pendry of Imperial College London, a world renowned physicist, explains: ?The body really responds strongly to electric fields, which is why you can cook a chicken in a microwave. But it doesn't respond to magnetic fields. As far as we know the body has almost zero response to magnetic fields in terms of the amount of power it absorbs." Evidence of the safety of magnetic fields is illustrated by the widespread acceptance and safety of household magnetic induction cooktops.



    Through proprietary design of the WiTricity source, electric fields are almost completely contained within the source. This design results in levels of electric and magnetic fields which fall well within regulatory guidelines. Thus WiTricity technology doesn?t give rise to radio frequency emissions that interfere with other electronic devices, and is not a source of electric and magnetic field levels that pose a risk to people or animals.



    Limits for human exposure to magnetic fields are set by regulatory bodies such as the FCC, ICNIRP, and are based on broad scientific and medical consensus. WiTricity technology is being developed to be fully compliant with applicable regulations regarding magnetic fields and electromagnetic radiation.
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 40,863member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GrangerFX View Post


    This is a really great idea (seriously). Apple could add a demo mode to iOS that the devices go into when factory reset. When they reach at least 80% charge, the screen would turn on and start displaying images and movies. This is like the attract mode in old video arcade games.



    Bingo. The idea is certainly interesting. Though they'd have to convince me why I should be okay with paying full price for a used device.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by doug0613 View Post


    Because we don't have enough cancer

    We need to be bombarded by more radiation



    It took THIS long for the tin foil hat brigade to show up?
  • majjomajjo Posts: 574member
    I'm more concern about the wear on the device from being consistently on while on display.
  • fjpoblamfjpoblam Posts: 126member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kerryb View Post


    I think we probably bombarded with enough energy waves already I doubt this is a healthy solution to powering up a device.



    In our alarmist area, there're already folks who favor outlawing cell phone use in public places, not to speak of public Wi-Fi hotspots (guess!). The spectre of radiation from wireless power will yield calls for regulations governing not only public use but also how close to a residence (especially apartment or tightly packed urban dwelling) this may be done. This place really likes its Mommy laws.
  • mactacmactac Posts: 315member
    Let's cover the US with inefficient wind turbines to run all the inefficient wireless chargers.



    Utopia!
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