Apple may get 80% tax break to build new Texas campus

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 59
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 25,385member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    I had to Google 'Bniceism' and your post came up ... That was impressive but not very enlightening!



    Is that a real thing? I thought they were saying "be-nice-ism"...
  • Reply 42 of 59
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 25,385member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post


    I knew it was the Canadians! I just KNEW it! Terrance and Phillip are behind all of this, right?



    Time to invade Toronto! Mr. President, I await your order...
  • Reply 43 of 59
    digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,766member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Is that a real thing? I thought they were saying "be-nice-ism"...



    Ah, ok ... Another iPad user lol. Mine seems to leaveoutthespacesalottoo?
  • Reply 44 of 59
    techboytechboy Posts: 183member
    Apple can afford it...the 80% discount is silly as an excuse to attract "good paying jobs"... why not take pride in the local job skills that attract Apple instead of the other way around???



    The build it and they will come is a fatal mistake in our gov't understanding of long term job growth. Companies can't growth without talent and skillful workforce, not the other way around.
  • Reply 45 of 59
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 25,385member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Techboy View Post


    Apple can afford it...the 80% discount is silly as an excuse to attract "good paying jobs"... why not take pride in the local job skills that attract Apple instead of the other way around???



    The build it and they will come is a fatal mistake in our gov't understanding of long term job growth. Companies can't growth without talent and skillful workforce, not the other way around.



    Whatever the excuse, Apple has a world-class reputation and will attract high-paying, talented, driven people.
  • Reply 46 of 59
    realisticrealistic Posts: 1,111member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by old-wiz View Post


    Considering how much cash Apple has, why don't they just be a good citizen and pay the taxes? Yes they are bringing something in, but they don't need the tax break.



    I guess you would refuse free money if it was offered to you?
  • Reply 47 of 59
    ljocampoljocampo Posts: 657member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    The commissioners' closed-door discussion followed two hours of public comment where county residents voiced concern over the large subsidies Apple would receive.



    So then why don't these concern citizens find someone else to give lower tax subsidies to. The last I heard, 80% of zero is still zero. Are these concern citizens going to bite their nose to spite their face by turning down ~3,600 jobs that they don't have now for a better tax deal they still don't have now?
  • Reply 48 of 59
    jack99jack99 Posts: 157member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Another comment that shows how ignorant of basic business concepts people have become with the openly socialistic attitudes wrought by politicians. Sad.





    The condescending attitude is warranted once you actually learn what socialism really is and more importantly stop watching Faux News.



    Until then, I don't think it's smart to wave around two separate concepts you don't understand.



  • Reply 49 of 59
    frankiefrankie Posts: 326member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    You are dreadfully misinformed, Frank.



    Wow where did all the teabaggers who like Apple come from?



    Seems to me the bankers and corporations are the ones destroying the planet. I'm wrong? Prove it to me.
  • Reply 50 of 59
    frankiefrankie Posts: 326member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    They're not standing up for my rights, and I'd prefer that they do not speak on behalf of Americans, as they represent a tiny fringe group of criminals, rapists, murderers, anarchists, communists and other sorts of filthy people and losers. It's an insult to Americans to even call those people for Americans. They're pure garbage and they deserve to be met with force. I get a great kick out of watching youtube videos of cops beating those disrespectful losers down.



    Wow where did all the teabaggers who like Apple come from?



    Seems to me the bankers and corporations are the ones destroying the planet. I'm wrong? Prove it to me.
  • Reply 51 of 59
    frankiefrankie Posts: 326member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Another comment that shows how ignorant of basic business concepts people have become with the openly socialistic attitudes wrought by politicians. Sad.



    Maybe we should tax them ay 70% like corps used to be. Seriously dude, crony capitalism is what's destroying the planet, not socialism. You teabaggers are ridiculous.



    The separation between the filthy rich and the middle class has riven more in the last 30 years than all of US history. And notice where it's gotten us? Corporations are sitting on 2-3 trillion dollars all while buying our politicians. I'm wrong? Prove it to me.
  • Reply 52 of 59
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by old-wiz View Post


    Considering how much cash Apple has, why don't they just be a good citizen and pay the taxes? Yes they are bringing something in, but they don't need the tax break.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alienzed View Post


    Seriously, what's with government giving tax breaks to the most profitable companies in existence?



    I'm glad neither of you runs any companies I'm invested in.



    Companies are legally obligated to invest their money wisely. If they have to choose between two locations, why in the world would they choose the more expensive location?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by diplication View Post


    Let me see, I can tax you at 20% of the full tax rate and you invest several hundred million dollars in my county. I benefit from added sales tax revenue as added payroll turns over several times in the local economy. Housing demands buoys up residential and commercial property values, on which I levy taxes. Or I let you go somewhere else, and I get nothing. Hmm, that's a difficult decision.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post


    Apple locating in Austin provides economic value to Austin. It is at least $200MM annual salaries, which creates new jobs with existing companies catering to the employees. The economic value to the city (hopefully) exceeds the concessions they provide to Apple.



    Be clear on what they are doing: They are giving them a discount on taxes (property, sales, etc) so that they are able to collect some taxes in the end. It might be a race to the bottom for the cities, but as long as the city is ensuring that there is excess value to them it is a win-win.



    Compare this to the 1980's expansion of WalMart across the US-- each city would give them property tax exemptions in order to gain more sales tax revenue, and jobs. But, the new stores killed existing businesses, created lower paying jobs, and ended up as a zero-sum game. When the incentives expired, WalMart relocated to just outside the city limits or got the next city to give them a deal, leaving a big, empty building as a blight.



    If you don't want companies getting deals like this, run for city council, and vehemently oppose such actions. Push for other logical reasons why a company should do business in your jurisdiction. Understand that the chances are quite good they will go elsewhere given they can save 10% of the project cost.



    We can take a stab at estimating.



    Let's assume that the article is correct and they are giving up 80% of the $7.4 M (I assume that's per year). That means that they're giving up $60 M or so, but they're still keeping $15 M that they wouldn't otherwise have over 10 years.



    In return:

    Apple invests $300 M to build the facilities. That's $300 M of construction jobs that they don't have now. The standard multiplier effect is around 2.5, so a $300 M investment means a $750 M value to the community.



    On a permanent basis, they are creating 3600 jobs worth about $200 M per year. If even half of those employees buy new homes at an average price of $200,000, that's $720 M in new home construction. Average property tax rates are around 1% of property value, so that's $7 M per year - or $72 M over 10 years. (Not everyone will buy a new home, of course, but the added jobs will improve prices for existing homes, so the same effect is likely to occur whether these people buy new homes or existing homes).



    The state is paying unemployment insurance to a number of people. Let's say that the average is $5,000 per year and that 1/3 of the people who are hired by Apple would otherwise receive unemployment. That's another $5 M per year that they save - or $50 M over 10 years.



    So we're looking at the area benefiting to the tune of well over $130 M over 10 years, even after Apple's discount. And that doesn't include all the intangibles like the better quality of life and the advantages of living in a vibrant, growing community.
  • Reply 53 of 59
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by frankie View Post


    Maybe we should tax them ay 70% like corps used to be. Seriously dude, crony capitalism is what's destroying the planet, not socialism. You teabaggers are ridiculous.



    The separation between the filthy rich and the middle class has riven more in the last 30 years than all of US history. And notice where it's gotten us? Corporations are sitting on 2-3 trillion dollars all while buying our politicians. I'm wrong? Prove it to me.



    The problem is that you do not recognize anything between socialism and unbridled greed. I'm not a tea bagger, but I'm not a wall street occupier, either. There is a large area in between that believes that everyone should pay their fair share and regulation should be kept to a minimum, but not eliminated.



    Corporations should pay fair tax rates. Individuals should pay fair tax rates. At the present time, the government has decided what a 'fair' tax rate is. If you want it changed, write your senator.



    The bigger problem is evasion and outright fraud. Most of our economic problems were not caused by corporations having too low a tax rate. Rather, they were caused by deregulation allowing them to get away with stupid stuff that no one in their right mind would ever do with their own money. But since they were playing with someone else's money, it was OK. Classic example - before the real estate crash, you could buy real estate in CA under the following terms:

    - No down payment

    - No closing costs

    - Negative amortization - that is, your payment did not even cover the interest due, so the mortgage balance increased each year rather than decreasing.

    Obviously, lenders were gambling their investors' money on the wish that real estate values would continue to climb at double digit rates indefinitely. We can see how that worked out.



    Intelligent, prudent regulation would have prevented that fiasco. The fact that we have two parties playing extremist games and trying to pull the country from one extreme to the other is our problem. I really don't see that 'no regulation at all' makes sense. Nor do I see that 'government calls all the shots' makes any sense. How about a rational, well-thought out regulation is probably the way to go.
  • Reply 54 of 59
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,164member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by d-range View Post


    Sometimes I just don't get the US and how they think about taxes.



    Well, at least you admit you have a problem



    Quote:

    If you are filthy rich you can get a pass and pay little or no taxes, but if you are poor, you have to cough up double or triple the percentage



    indeed. You do realize the bottom third (it's more, now, but third is indisputable) pay NO TAXES AT ALL?



    And the "1%" that are being demonized pay well over 40%?



    Quote:

    Then again, by US standards I would probably almost be communist so maybe that's why I just don't get it.



    What I don't get is why people think they should get something for nothing because life isn't fair or some other such nonsense...



    Quote:

    Anyway, I have a lot of respect for Apple because of their great products, but stuff like this doesn't help. $100 bln in the bank and still trying to get tax breaks left and right



    Er, Apple has a legal responsibility to protect their shareholders value?



    And beyond that, if you want to criticize them for not giving away money to charity or whatever, fine - but why do you think the local government is even considering giving Apple the tax break in the first place? Could it be that having a large employer like Apple with a large percentage of high paying jobs in their jurisdiction will bring far more value than the paltry amount of taxes that are under discussion? Oh no, it's far more easier and requires less critical thinking to just have a knee jerk reaction to the face value.



    Your probably also confused that while they bitched about it, publishers are still falling over themselves to have a presence in Apple's iOS app store despite the "onerous" 30%? Perhaps the fact that Apple drops literally millions of people who have accounts with credit cards on file and for whom a transaction is one click away has value after all and the justification for the 30%?



    Good gawd, there's a reason most of the people in here are working for someone else and not running their own successful business.... Ugh...



    How the heck are you typing on an Internet message board anyway? You bastard - why are you expecting anything for your labors - your obviously more affluent than a huge chunk of the human population - why aren't you donating your money to them instead of selfishly paying for the means to be present on the internet and post in a message forum?
  • Reply 55 of 59
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 1,965member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by old-wiz View Post


    Considering how much cash Apple has, why don't they just be a good citizen and pay the taxes? Yes they are bringing something in, but they don't need the tax break.



    I agree with you, but the reality is that States and localities do compete to get companies and the associated jobs and the primary way they compete is by giving tax breaks.



    In an ideal world, no company would ever get such a tax break. The obligation of the State should be to help with infrastructure, such as a new highway exit or extending public transportation, etc.



    I would love to see Apple actually come out and say, "we're a very successful, very profitable company and for the benefit of America, we're not going to accept any tax breaks". But they won't.



    If this tax break is truly limited to a total of $7.4 million and they're really going to hire 3600 employees, that's only $2056 per employee and is probably well worth it for Texas. Those additional employees will probably more than make up the lost revenue in sales taxes, real-estate taxes and income taxes, not to mention the money that Apple would spend locally. The problem I have with that is that in that case, Apple's new employees are essentially paying the taxes that Apple should have paid. But on the upside, the presence of Apple would probably also attract other companies and associated jobs.



    On the downside, if those 3600 employees all moved into the same area and just 20% of them had an average of 1.5 kids each, the local school system would have to find seats for another 1080 students, which could mean they have to build two new schools. That would cost $tens of millions in capital costs and they've already given away $7.4 million of it, not to mention the hiring of at least 40 more teachers, which would easily cost another $1.4 million per year, probably far more when you include benefits.
  • Reply 56 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    They're not standing up for my rights, and I'd prefer that they do not speak on behalf of Americans, as they represent a tiny fringe group of criminals, rapists, murderers, anarchists, communists and other sorts of filthy people and losers. It's an insult to Americans to even call those people for Americans. They're pure garbage and they deserve to be met with force. I get a great kick out of watching youtube videos of cops beating those disrespectful losers down.





    Sounds like you bought into the narrative pushed by the right-wing. It's alot easier to dismiss them that way huh?
  • Reply 57 of 59
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 25,385member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jack99 View Post


    The condescending attitude is warranted once you actually learn what socialism really is and more importantly stop watching Faux News.



    Until then, I don't think it's smart to wave around two separate concepts you don't understand.











    I don't watch Fox News. I don't like Fox News. I don't even like Glen Beck or Rush Limbaugh. Try harder.
  • Reply 58 of 59
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,164member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post


    In an ideal world, no company would ever get such a tax break.



    So municipalities shouldn't have an important tool to woo revenue to their jurisdiction because people who are focused on one aspect of a deal that happens to be politically charged have an objection to it?



    Yeah! The triumph of democratizing ignorance...
  • Reply 59 of 59
    conrailconrail Posts: 489member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    They're not standing up for my rights, and I'd prefer that they do not speak on behalf of Americans, as they represent a tiny fringe group of criminals, rapists, murderers, anarchists, communists and other sorts of filthy people and losers. It's an insult to Americans to even call those people for Americans. They're pure garbage and they deserve to be met with force. I get a great kick out of watching youtube videos of cops beating those disrespectful losers down.



    You need to go galt yourself. Seriously.
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