Apple's Ivy Bridge-powered iMacs rumored to debut in June

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  • wizard69wizard69 Posts: 11,836member
    The studios are concerned about having what happened to the record industry happen to them. That is a whole different thread but I do believe their concerns are misplaced.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Sure it is. It removes the capability to perform the illegal action from the purchase. You want to spend extra money on an external drive, be Apple's guest.



    Well we can debate the legal aspects about burning a backup of something you own, but honestly removal of the optical has nothing to do with that. There isn't a studio manager anywhere that would want Apple to remove the DVD drive as they know many many DVD are purchased to watch on computers. There is hardly a plane flight that you can take that doesn't have somebody viewing a movie of their choosing.

    Quote:



    But not having the capability internally at all might actually lead to better studio deals. You never know.



    It wouldn't ever be a factor.
  • doctorgonzodoctorgonzo Posts: 529member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post


    I'm saddened to think anti-reflective displays may be further indication the Mac Pro has been killed.



    My first-gen Intel iMac has a matte screen.



    The fact is, matte displays are a tiny fraction of what makes Mac Pro ownership an advantage in high-end work.
  • ljocampoljocampo Posts: 657member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Most vehicles have 30-pin USB or Bluetooth these days.



    My car does too. That not the point. My AL iMac is plenty thin as a desktop Mac so why should we lose the ODD when people still use it.



    Quote:

    Because that's illegal to begin with.



    No it's not illegal in the U.S. to make an archive copy for personal use. But you knew that, didn't you. It's a grey area in the DMCA and no prosecutor is going to take it on.



    Quote:

    The question truly lies in the cost to innovation, usability, and utility to keep them.



    If Apple pays $10 per ODD I'd be very surprised. Cost has nothing to do with it. You speak to cost to innovation. I fail to see what cost to innovation there will be to keeping the ODD a few years longer. IMO the cost of taking it out of iMac will cost more in negative PR. In a thin laptop that works on batteries I can understand getting rid of it but this is the iMac we're talking about.



    Quote:

    Funny that you'd lecture people on a logical fallacy when you stated not a sentence before that you'd buy an iMac even though it didn't meet your needs.



    Your twisting words. I said I'd still buy it "because it [not getting the ODD] is a small part of the Mac experience." As for this "lecturing on a logical fallacy," I have no idea what you're saying. I don't lecture anyone. I have an opinion. That's all.
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 40,859member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post


    My car does too. That not the point. My AL iMac is plenty thin as a desktop Mac so why should we lose the ODD when people still use it.



    My Mac Pro is plenty thin. Why did Apple take away my SCSI and ADB ports?



    Quote:

    No it's not illegal in the U.S. to make an archive copy for personal use. But you knew that, didn't you. It's a grey area in the DMCA and no prosecutor is going to take it on.



    Of course I knew that. Fortunately, it's not at all what we're discussing. Breaking DVD DRM is illegal. Having a digital copy is, obviously, not illegal.



    So it's legal to buy a DVD, not open it, download a torrent of said movie, turn seeding off, and download a copy of that movie…



    … but not rip the DVD. Which is what we're discussing.



    Quote:

    You speak to cost to innovation. I fail to see what cost to innovation there will be to keeping the ODD a few years longer.



    Less incentive to move to a proper solution for software distribution.



    Quote:

    IMO the cost of taking it out of iMac will cost more in negative PR.



    Yeah, Apple's still reeling from all that bad press when they took away the floppy drive. What a boner!
  • iguesssoiguessso Posts: 132member
    CPUs get faster, displays get better, those are a given.



    What I want is an access panel on the back to expose the drive area.
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 40,859member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGuessSo View Post


    What I want is an access panel on the back to expose the drive area.



    Ew. How about a drive tray like the Mac Pro? How about two drive trays?
  • mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 6,924member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Most vehicles have 30-pin USB or Bluetooth these days.







    Because that's illegal to begin with.







    The question truly lies in the cost to innovation, usability, and utility to keep them.







    Funny that you'd lecture people on a logical fallacy when you stated not a sentence before that you'd buy an iMac even though it didn't meet your needs.



    Wrong. Most new cars being manufactured these days have a 30-pin USB connector or bluetooth.



    That makes up < 5% of all cars on the road [and I'm high balling that percentage].



    Total registered vehicles in US that are licensed is approaching over 300 million [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passeng..._United_States (254+ Million in 2007). From 2007 World Wide: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile) estimates 600+ million.



    Your assumption about `most' inferring a majority is factually wrong.



    From what I can find Honda didn't introduce Bluetooth to the majority of their autos until 2008, by default, never mind USB.
  • ljocampoljocampo Posts: 657member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    My Mac Pro is plenty thin. Why did Apple take away my SCSI and ADB ports?



    Of course I knew that. Fortunately, it's not at all what we're discussing. Breaking DVD DRM is illegal. Having a digital copy is, obviously, not illegal.



    So it's legal to buy a DVD, not open it, download a torrent of said movie, turn seeding off, and download a copy of that movie?



    ? but not rip the DVD. Which is what we're discussing.



    Less incentive to move to a proper solution for software distribution.



    Yeah, Apple's still reeling from all that bad press when they took away the floppy drive. What a boner!



    You having a rough day. I've never seen you so pessimistic before. SCSI? ADB? not even in the same ball park let alone over decade ago. We're talking about today's consumer. There's no good reason to take away the optical drive from the desktop iMac yet. The iMac has plenty of room, the ODD cost Apple probably under $5 each, and the ODD doesn't take anymore resources to support. I'm all for moving on from legacy tech but there's a percentage of uses that find it functional. Now in laptops I totally agree with you but not the iMac.



    I'm not sure what you're meaning when you bring up torrents. I buy DVDs on sale and rip them to my hard disk. All legal so what are you saying.



    I don't think the optical drive usage can be compared to the floppy drive. People didn't create their own movies and give them to family and friends on a floppy drive but many still do burn and distribute their creations on CDs/DVDs. It's even a bigger deal to music on CDs where you can make custom printed disc and albums. Maybe cheap thumbs will take the place of the ODD. I don't believe there is less incentive... CDs/DVDs are still one of the best and cheapest way to give out a lot to people for free. The commercial distributors will move the tech along. I'm talking friends and family.



    All I'm saying there is no down side to keeping it in a desktop machine and still a benefit to me and plenty others (which is why I use the egocentricism remark.
  • pmzpmz Posts: 3,433member
    4k displays?



    So that text can be nice and crisp, and every image and every web page look like ****, just like on the new iPad?



    It is seriously irritating (yet a bit funny) that the display on the iPad is now TOO good for the content.
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 40,859member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post


    We're talking about today's consumer. There's no good reason to take away the optical drive from the desktop iMac yet.



    So am I. Was there 'no good reason' to take away floppies? They were in the same situation.



    Quote:

    The iMac has plenty of room, the ODD cost Apple probably under $5 each, and the ODD doesn't take anymore resources to support. I'm all for moving on from legacy tech but there's a percentage of uses that find it functional.



    It takes more resources to support the system's last bottleneck, it does.



    And there was a percentage of users that still used floppies. A much larger percentage, in fact, than still do optical drives.



    Quote:

    I'm not sure what you're meaning when you bring up torrents. I buy DVDs on sale and rip them to my hard disk. All legal so what are you saying.



    No. That's not legal. Breaking DVD DRM is illegal. You cannot do legally this. You never wondered why you could rip CDs in iTunes but not DVDs?



    Quote:

    CDs/DVDs are still one of the best and cheapest way to give out a lot to people for free.



    So the bootleg DVD business takes a hit. Big deal.



    Quote:

    All I'm saying there is no down side to keeping it in a desktop machine?



    Letting software developers remain in the last two decades instead of leading the charge to help us force ISPs to adopt faster Internet speeds isn't a downside?



    And don't say I'm pulling at straws; this is not only a legitimate belief, it's one of the most important pushes for the future. Digital distribution costs less than physical packaging and logistics. Developers wanting to give content digitally save money. Digital distribution is artificially limited by the speed at which ISPs sell their wares. So the developers join consumers in demanding faster connections.



    And the future, my dear whatever your gender, the cloud, computers, media, games, interconnectivity between all electronic devices? hinges on how fast we can get the data and how cheaply we can get it.
  • bigpicsbigpics Posts: 1,301member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by malcolmkettering View Post


    The lampshade iMac was by far the best design. they need to go back to that kind of complete flexibility with the monitor, not the rigid set up they've had since, only rocking up and down. That change has to be one of the biggest steps backwards in Mac hardware history, and when you put a lampshade model with the current model side-by-side, you have to agree.



    Don't remember "lampshade" being my nickname of choice at the time, but whether it would work with modern Mac monitors at all for center of gravity reasons, etc., cooling issues, etc. as noted by another poster below, I think that particular computer STILL represents the perigee of Apple's original design work. Nobody else - before or since - has ever done such an original take on a personal computer. And I believe it was nearly immediately chosen to be in the Smithsonian collection of industrial design.



    As the caption under the picture says: ("The neck was designed for misuse," Ive once wrote in an article for the Design Museum). Either way, it was a startling, elegant evolutionary step between the original iMac with its bulky cathode ray tube and today's "PC-less" models, which seem to be nothing more than slightly overweight displays.
    Now I know that form follows function. But I didn't want Bauhaus to build my house, and still and all, while they generally get top marks among their peers for their industrial design, build quality, durability, etc., when you think about it, every Apple product since else since is just a slab (iMac, iPod, iPhone, iPad) or a box of some size (Apple TV, Mac Pro) - or a slab with a hinge (Mac Book).





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    'Have to' agree? Not at all. I don't know what a lampshade 27" iMac would look like or how it would work. It wasn't that hard to have enough weight in the base of the old one to support a 17" monitor. It might be horrendously heavy and complicated to do the same thing with a 27" monitor. Furthermore, there would probably be cooling issues with modern i5 and i7 chips and that case design.



    I agree that having an adjustable monitor was a good thing and it was too bad that they took it away. I'm just now willing to make the leap to assuming that the tradeoffs would be worthwhile with a larger screen when we don't even know what the tradeoffs would be.



  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    Wrong. Most new cars being manufactured these days have a 30-pin USB connector or bluetooth.



    Don't you mean '4-pin USB connector'? I've never seen a car that had a 30 pin USB connector. They rely on the owner to supply a 4-pin to 30-pin cable.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigpics View Post


    Don't remember "lampshade" being my nickname of choice at the time, but whether it would work with modern Mac monitors at all for center of gravity reasons, etc., cooling issues, etc. as noted by another poster below, I think that particular computer STILL represents the perigee of Apple's original design work. Nobody else - before or since - has ever done such an original take on a personal computer. And I believe it was nearly immediately chosen to be in the Smithsonian collection of industrial design.



    As the caption under the picture says: ("The neck was designed for misuse," Ive once wrote in an article for the Design Museum). Either way, it was a startling, elegant evolutionary step between the original iMac with its bulky cathode ray tube and today's "PC-less" models, which seem to be nothing more than slightly overweight displays.
    Now I know that form follows function. But I didn't want Bauhaus to build my house, and still and all, while they generally get top marks among their peers for their industrial design, build quality, durability, etc., when you think about it, every Apple product since else since is just a slab (iMac, iPod, iPhone, iPad) or a box of some size (Apple TV, Mac Pro) - or a slab with a hinge (Mac Book).



    OK. That's a 17" LCD monitor. Now, imagine it with a 27" LCD monitor. The base would have to grow proportionately. And that doesn't even consider the extra cooling demands. The base would take up half of your desk.



    I would also like to see an adjustable monitor. I just doubt that it will look anything like the old one.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post


    My car does too. That not the point. My AL iMac is plenty thin as a desktop Mac so why should we lose the ODD when people still use it.



    No it's not illegal in the U.S. to make an archive copy for personal use. But you knew that, didn't you. It's a grey area in the DMCA and no prosecutor is going to take it on.



    If Apple pays $10 per ODD I'd be very surprised. Cost has nothing to do with it. You speak to cost to innovation. I fail to see what cost to innovation there will be to keeping the ODD a few years longer. IMO the cost of taking it out of iMac will cost more in negative PR. In a thin laptop that works on batteries I can understand getting rid of it but this is the iMac we're talking about.



    I really don't expect to see the ODD eliminated from desktop Macs yet, either. There are very good reasons to remove it from laptops, but no really strong reason to remove it from a desktop Mac.
  • iguesssoiguessso Posts: 132member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Ew. How about a drive tray like the Mac Pro? How about two drive trays?



    The two aren't remotely related. The disassembly required to change or add a drive is crazy. We're lucky the RAM is accessible I guess.
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 40,859member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGuessSo View Post


    The two aren't remotely related. The disassembly required to change or add a drive is crazy. We're lucky the RAM is accessible I guess.



    I have no idea what you're trying to say here. I'm offering a solution making the drives easier to access. That's all. Nothing more. And it's a much better solution than a stupid door like you see on the bottom of Windows laptops.
  • iguesssoiguessso Posts: 132member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    I have no idea what you're trying to say here. I'm offering a solution making the drives easier to access. That's all. Nothing more. And it's a much better solution than a stupid door like you see on the bottom of Windows laptops.



    The word 'ew' threw me off. I didn't realize you were serious about a drive tray. :-)



    Gotta ask though - is the ram access door 'stupid'?
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 40,859member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGuessSo View Post


    Gotta ask though - is the ram access door 'stupid'?



    "Necessary". It's no different from the other access methods on other Macs. It's not the best solution, but it works because of the requirements of the design.
  • iguesssoiguessso Posts: 132member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    "Necessary". It's no different from the other access methods on other Macs. It's not the best solution, but it works because of the requirements of the design.



    Illogical, Captain. If a purchaser changes their mind about the amount of RAM in their iMac it's 'necessary' to give them an easy way to change it. If they want to add an SSD or bump their spinning disk capacity, that would be 'stupid'?
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 40,859member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGuessSo View Post


    Illogical, Captain. If a purchaser changes their mind about the amount of RAM in their iMac it's 'necessary' to give them an easy way to change it. If they want to add an SSD or bump their spinning disk capacity, that would be 'stupid'?



    Are you even reading what I'm saying?



    The door is necessary for RAM because of the design of the case. A door is not necessary for a hard drive because positioning is less vital.
  • malcolmketteringmalcolmkettering Posts: 5member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    'Have to' agree? Not at all. I don't know what a lampshade 27" iMac would look like or how it would work. It wasn't that hard to have enough weight in the base of the old one to support a 17" monitor. It might be horrendously heavy and complicated to do the same thing with a 27" monitor. Furthermore, there would probably be cooling issues with modern i5 and i7 chips and that case design.



    I agree that having an adjustable monitor was a good thing and it was too bad that they took it away. I'm just now willing to make the leap to assuming that the tradeoffs would be worthwhile with a larger screen when we don't even know what the tradeoffs would be.



    Yeah, I agree. I didn't mean to imply that they could just take the same design and bolt a 27" monitor onto it. But my point was that in the old design, being able to adjust the monitor into basically infinite orientations was amazing and industry-leading, then they went backwards with the current design. Here's hoping they one day figure out how to get the same infinite orientation capability with a larger monitor. I think the lampshade version topped out at 20"?
  • iguesssoiguessso Posts: 132member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Are you even reading what I'm saying?



    The door is necessary for RAM because of the design of the case. A door is not necessary for a hard drive because positioning is less vital.



    Oh sorry, I thought the thread was speculation and/or desires re the next iMacs. I didn't realize changes to the case were off the table.
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